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Posted

[quote name='Boz' timestamp='1353269278' post='595330970']
IE across the board sucks and from IE6 to IE9 has broken the web over and over again.. and then Microsoft starts coming out and complaining how everyone is using webkit (an open source browser engine that is absolutely KICK ASS) and because they are adding new features (who btw, will most likely be adopted by WHATWG and W3C eventually).

Wtf are we talking about.. and yes.. IE 10 sucks compared to every other browser. Just because it's a bit more compliant with HTML5 as a standard still doesn't make it great.. it makes it suck less.
[/quote]
Amazing how using webkit only prefixes breaks the web too right?

According to your logic (again) IE6 had 90%+ of the browser marketshare so everyone should have just followed Microsoft's broken standards because you know they "eventually" would have made it in.

The Microsoft "sponsored" HTML5 test that you keep claiming is BS comes DIRECTLY from the W3C, you know the people who are responsible for maintaining the specification. What are you going to claim next Microsoft pays off the W3C?

[quote]You and others didn't refute anything but just whine and defend garbage that Microsoft is and was in regards to IE browsers. The reason web is still have trouble moving forward is Microsoft and IE and nobody else. [/quote]
You should learn to read. Microsoft is asking people to move the web forward by NOT using browser prefixes.

The reason why IE6 was so terrible was because Microsoft used IE only prefixes and refused to follow set standards, by using webkit only prefixes you're just repeating the same mistakes MS made.

It's about time for you to shut up because yet again you just proved that according to you Microsoft can do no right and Google can do no wrong. It's sad because if this was a post about how Apple was pushing the web forward with HTML5 and dropping proprietary extensions you'll be all up in arms and start claiming that HTML5 is terrible and how flash is the savior of the internet. But since supporting HTML5 makes Google look good in this topic (according to you anyways), you're all for it.

Microsoft isn't asking people to use IE, they aren't asking people to not use Webkit. They're asking people to follow standards. Too bad you're too much of a fanboy to realize that.
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Posted

This Boz kid only sees what he wants to see. Hilarious.
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Posted

[quote name='-Razorfold' timestamp='1353270613' post='595331028']
Microsoft isn't asking people to use IE, they aren't asking people to not use Webkit.
[/quote]

Duh.. so they will use IE.. LOL..

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Posted

[quote name='jakem1' timestamp='1353261132' post='595330710']
You don't know what you're talking about which is why you have to rely on insults. You constantly undermine your own arguments with your nonsensical personal attacks and it's not worth discussing anything with you if you can't post sensible comments.
[/quote]

[quote name='jakem1' timestamp='1353160771' post='595327744']
That's ridiculous. Ignoring the fact that webkit has a tiny share of the desktop market and the mobile market isn't big enough yet to matter, what you're advocating is no different to the situation that existed when IE6 owned the market. The only standards that matter are the ones agreed by W3C and other bodies and it's up to browsers to maintain compatibility.
[/quote]

I'll just let this assertion that the rendering engine of choice for the number 1 web browser for the desktop "has a tiny share" speak for itself :laugh:

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Posted

[quote name='Boz' timestamp='1353271354' post='595331062']
Duh.. so they will use IE.. LOL..
[/quote]
I sugest you re-read what you quoted again, and this time ACTUALLY read it.

[quote name='Javik' timestamp='1353271566' post='595331066']
I'll just let this assertion that the rendering engine of choice for the number 1 web browser for the desktop "has a tiny share" speak for itself :laugh:
[/quote]

The number one what ? http://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=0&qpcustomd=0
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Posted

[quote name='HawkMan' timestamp='1353271742' post='595331074']I sugest you re-read what you quoted again, and this time ACTUALLY read it.[/quote]
It's gone from him trying to defend a "point" and completely ignoring what's right in front of him to "screw standards derp Webkit". You're wasting your time.
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Posted

[quote name='HawkMan' timestamp='1353271832' post='595331074']
The number one what ? [url="http://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=0&qpcustomd=0"]http://www.netmarket...d=0&qpcustomd=0[/url]
[/quote]

Don't know where they get their stats from because every other site I look at puts Chrome ahead of them

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

http://gs.statcounter.com/

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Posted

[quote name='Boz' timestamp='1353160238' post='595327720']


Yeah, the only difference is that Webkit is open while IE was and still is proprietary. It's a night and day difference. Not to mention that browsers who use Webkit (Safari, Chrome) are updated transparently to the user making the very latest version immediately adopted at 90% marketshare.

It's not even beginning to compare to IE6 and never will.

IE10 will continue to linger just like everything microsoft and IE long after IE 11 is out and this fragmentation is the worst thing that has caused the web the biggest damage in progressing forward.
[/quote]

Like it or not, MS has the corporate world to think about where controlling versions is paramount to the IT staff. Having IE simply update transparently like Chrome or FF would be a massive no. All updates have to be approved and having WSUS manage windows updates is how things work. It maybe an idea to have a setting that can be managed via group policy (and is default on domain joined machines) which stops transparent updating and all other machines (home users etc.) do get the latest versions, but MS also has to deal with the EU and browser ballot (which is just mind numbingly annoying now - EU, we want a browser ballot choice, I don't want it).

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Posted

[quote name='HawkMan' timestamp='1353270588' post='595331026']
Again, the standards organizations MADE a standard for touch controls that all browsers decided to follow. Google decided to make their own incompatible and non compliant and in fact a worse implementation. of touch controls and not implement the standard one.

you keep ignoring this little fact, the standard already existed, Google's method isn't going to be a standard, they already had a standard, a better standard.

And we're not defending MS, we're arguing to Google shouldn't make their own standards when there are already standards for it.
[/quote]

[img]http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png[/img]

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Posted

[quote name='Javik' timestamp='1353272124' post='595331094']
Don't know where they get their stats from because every other site I look at puts Chrome ahead of them

[url="http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp"]http://www.w3schools...wsers_stats.asp[/url]

[url="http://gs.statcounter.com/"]http://gs.statcounter.com/[/url]
[/quote]

And btw, that's not IE10.. that's IE all versions in existence combined.

One of the major problems why other browsers and Webkit especially are all better than IE is the speed of updates.

For example.. Chrome and Firefox and pretty much every major browsers today (minus IE) updates the browser automatically and transparently. This means that over 90% of the users will always have the latest version of the browser at any time. They don't have to worry about updates.. Chrome and Firefox, upgrade themselves transparently and next time you click that browser icon to start it you will be running the latest version.

This is HUGE for moving the web forward as all of these browsers innovate and add features much faster than Microsoft and that's one of the biggest reasons why IE will always break the web. Next year, every webkit and other browsers will support the very latest HTML5 spec as they are officially added and IE users will have to wait for Microsoft to release IE11 and in the meantime you will have a certain amount of people still using IE 10. This si why Microsoft was and will be toxic for moving the web forward.. aside from their tendency to completely tie IE and everything they do to their own business interests and platform.

[quote name='duddit2' timestamp='1353272509' post='595331108']
Like it or not, MS has the corporate world to think about where controlling versions is paramount to the IT staff.
[/quote]

Who cares? I don't care if they have corporate world to think about.. They have ruined the web and because of their approach they are unable to quickly upgrade and innovate. Who's fault is that? This is why they are being steamrolled by everyone. Nobody is going to wait for them anymore.

Hopefully more and more enterprises switch to webkit powered browsers and dump IE once and for all, especially now when they are adopting iOS and Android tablets and other stuff across Fortune 500 companies.

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Posted

[quote name='Boz' timestamp='1353272620' post='595331114']
And btw, that's not IE10.. that's IE all versions in existence combined.

One of the major problems why other browsers and Webkit especially are all better than IE is the speed of updates.

For example.. Chrome and Firefox and pretty much every major browsers today (minus IE) updates the browser automatically and transparently. This means that over 90% of the users will always have the latest version of the browser at any time. They don't have to worry about updates.. Chrome and Firefox, upgrade themselves transparently and next time you click that browser icon to start it you will be running the latest version.

This is HUGE for moving the web forward as all of these browsers innovate and add features much faster than Microsoft and that's one of the biggest reasons why IE will always break the web. Next year, every webkit and other browsers will support the very latest HTML5 spec as they are officially added and IE users will have to wait for Microsoft to release IE11 and in the meantime you will have a certain amount of people still using IE 10. This si why Microsoft was always toxic for the web.. aside from their tendency to completely tie IE and everything they do to their own business interests.
[/quote]

way to completely miss (or ignore) the post 2 above yours

[quote name='duddit2' timestamp='1353272509' post='595331108']
Like it or not, MS has the corporate world to think about where controlling versions is paramount to the IT staff. Having IE simply update transparently like Chrome or FF would be a massive no. All updates have to be approved and having WSUS manage windows updates is how things work. It maybe an idea to have a setting that can be managed via group policy (and is default on domain joined machines) which stops transparent updating and all other machines (home users etc.) do get the latest versions, but MS also has to deal with the EU and browser ballot (which is just mind numbingly annoying now - EU, we want a browser ballot choice, I don't want it).
[/quote]

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Posted

[quote name='Boz' timestamp='1353272686' post='595331114']
For example.. Chrome and Firefox and pretty much every major browsers today (minus IE) updates the browser automatically and transparently. This means that over 90% of the users will always have the latest version of the browser at any time. They don't have to worry about updates.. Chrome and Firefox, upgrade themselves transparently and next time you click that browser icon to start it you will be running the latest version.
[/quote]

Starting with IE10, IE updates the browser automatically:

[img]http://blagonets.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/ie10-about_thumb.png?w=373&h=298[/img]

You really need to stop being a hypocrite and recognize that proprietary extensions are bad for the web... they were bad when IE6 ruled, and they are bad today. And as proponents of webkit have argued before, competition drives innovation... so why advocate for the elimination of all competing rendering engines like you have?

And your assertion that webkit is the standard because it has the most marketshare is silly and majorly hypocritical. Standards bodies make standards, not the browser with the largest marketshare.

It's amazing how the tables have turned.

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Posted

[quote]Hopefully more and more enterprises switch to webkit powered browsers and dump IE once and for all, especially now when they are adopting iOS and Android tablets and other stuff across Fortune 500 companies. [/quote]
And the first thing those corporations will do (if they switch) is disable auto-update. If you think corporations are going to allow silent auto-updating you're insane.

So you're going to be stuck with the same problem, just with a different browser.

And MS does update the browser in between major versions, you just don't know about it unless you're looking at WU and the full version string. Granted its not as frequent as chrome but starting with 10 it will be.

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Posted

[quote name='Boz' timestamp='1353272686' post='595331114']


And btw, that's not IE10.. that's IE all versions in existence combined.

One of the major problems why other browsers and Webkit especially are all better than IE is the speed of updates.

For example.. Chrome and Firefox and pretty much every major browsers today (minus IE) updates the browser automatically and transparently. This means that over 90% of the users will always have the latest version of the browser at any time. They don't have to worry about updates.. Chrome and Firefox, upgrade themselves transparently and next time you click that browser icon to start it you will be running the latest version.

This is HUGE for moving the web forward as all of these browsers innovate and add features much faster than Microsoft and that's one of the biggest reasons why IE will always break the web. Next year, every webkit and other browsers will support the very latest HTML5 spec as they are officially added and IE users will have to wait for Microsoft to release IE11 and in the meantime you will have a certain amount of people still using IE 10. This si why Microsoft was and will be toxic for moving the web forward.. aside from their tendency to completely tie IE and everything they do to their own business interests and platform.



Who cares? I don't care if they have corporate world to think about.. They have ruined the web and because of their approach they are unable to quickly upgrade and innovate. Who's fault is that? This is why they are being steamrolled by everyone. Nobody is going to wait for them anymore.

Hopefully more and more enterprises switch to webkit powered browsers and dump IE once and for all, especially now when they are adopting iOS and Android tablets and other stuff across Fortune 500 companies.
[/quote]

Ignored the important stuff again huh, and the fact you didn't read you last quote

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Posted

[quote name='rfirth' timestamp='1353273980' post='595331172']
Starting with IE10, IE updates the browser automatically:
[/quote]

Yet update process is drastically outdated. Still long and requires reboot...

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Posted

[quote name='coth' timestamp='1353274977' post='595331212']
Yet update process is drastically outdated. Still long and requires reboot...
[/quote]
Afaik there haven't been any updates to IE10 yet, so how do you know that?

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Posted

[quote name='coth' timestamp='1353274977' post='595331212']
Yet update process is drastically outdated. Still long and requires reboot...
[/quote]

What gave you that idea? Says who?

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Posted

[quote name='Boz' timestamp='1353160238' post='595327720']
[b]Yeah, the only difference is that Webkit is open while IE was and still is proprietary. [/b] It's a night and day difference. Not to mention that browsers who use Webkit (Safari, Chrome) are updated transparently to the user making the very latest version immediately adopted at 90% marketshare.

It's not even beginning to compare to IE6 and never will.

IE10 will continue to linger just like everything microsoft and IE long after IE 11 is out and this fragmentation is the worst thing that has caused the web the biggest damage in progressing forward.
[/quote]
That which has market dominance is the de facto standard. Or that which is ratified by a Standards organization. Which is Webkit? It's open, open does not equal standard.

If you prefer it, fine. Just don't become another liar. It is either a standard, or it is not. Whether or not it's open source (which I generally find to be inferior and less secure, my personal opinion and experience) is irrelevant to whether or not it is a standard unless it has market dominance making it the de facto standard.

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Posted

I think the fact there are idiots still defending this after being clearly told this is about standards and not Microsoft, clearly illustrates that Webkit is already far worse than IE6 ever was.

Time to start notifying Webkit users that their browsers are enemies of the open web.
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Posted

[quote name='-Razorfold' timestamp='1353275160' post='595331216']

Afaik there haven't been any updates to IE10 yet, so how do you know that?
[/quote]
But there is IE10 RC itself, which shows installation procedure very well. It didn't change.

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Posted

[quote name='Boz' timestamp='1353256174' post='595330496']
Riiight.. the ONLY proper test is the one sponsored by Microsoft that shows IE10 doing well with HTML5.. GOT IT!
[/quote]
Tests sponsored by Microsoft actually test something.
HTML5 tests that you cling to for your sanity (or endless trolling) are like political push polls.

[quote name='coth' timestamp='1353274977' post='595331212']
Yet update process is drastically outdated. Still long and requires reboot...
[/quote]
Newsflash: Some updates still require you to reboot your Windows PC. Le Shock and Horror! An integral part of the Operating System required a reboot to update.

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Posted

[quote name='coth' timestamp='1353283610' post='595331486']
But there is IE10 RC itself, which shows installation procedure very well. It didn't change.
[/quote]

That's for updating from IE9 to IE10. IE9 doesn't have the built-in ability to automatically update. IE10 does.

We're talking about starting with IE10.

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[quote name='ArialBlue' timestamp='1353288105' post='595331638']
Tests sponsored by Microsoft actually test something.
HTML5 tests that you cling to for your sanity (or endless trolling) are like political push polls.
[/quote]

Sites objectively testing open source browsers are a "political push polls" (whatever that means) while in your eyes tests paid by a corporation trying to show their browser as good for their own benefits is A OK..

Logic escapes you.

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Posted

[quote name='Boz' timestamp='1353298908' post='595332028']


Sites objectively testing open source browsers are a "political push polls" (whatever that means) while in your eyes tests paid by a corporation trying to show their browser as good for their own benefits is A OK..

Logic escapes you.
[/quote]
Still ignoring the earlier replies I see.

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Posted

MS is just scared. they already are not the popular browser. with how lazy they got with IE6 I moved on.

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