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Microsoft begs Web devs not to make WebKit the new IE6


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#76 Max Norris

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 16:30

Given that Chrome is faster than any other browser on Windows their approach seems to be working, obviously lack of D3D support isn't holding them back.

Erm Chrome and Firefox does use DirectX/D3D via the ANGLE Project, which transforms WebGL into DirectX calls.

I guess you have to be special type of blind to miss the irony and hypocrisy in this..

And yet you're preaching on about how right it is for them to be doing the exact same thing? Open source or not, breaking standards is bad.


#77 Boz

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 16:50

Open source or not, breaking standards is bad.


Nobody is breaking standards. If anything Webkit implements them first.

#78 jakem1

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 16:55

Only a problem if your browser isn't properly sandboxed. WebGL is no more dangerous than any of the other 2D or 3D acceleration APIs built into modern web browsers. And DirectX is a "standard" because Microsoft give incentives to game studios to leverage it. Google don't support it because Chrome is a cross platform browser, and it's easier to port code from one platform to another if you use the same API on each. Given that Chrome is faster than any other browser on Windows their approach seems to be working, obviously lack of D3D support isn't holding them back. Besides, the web relies on open source technologies, and Microsoft's 3D and 2D api's aren't open source, making them useless to web developers. I don't. I'm just tired of hearing Microsoft shills blathering on as if every company and person on the web has some obligation to design everything around their products.


Not as tired as I am of seeing you call everyone who disagrees with you a shill. If you haven't got an argument and need to rely on abuse it would probably be best if you just don't post.

#79 Athernar

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 16:56

HTML5 test is not a valid benchmark. It tests things which are out of spec.
AFAIK, it doesn't even test anything but just queries if the browser supports it.


Bingo. HTML5 test is only useful for marketing departments, you need test cases to measure conformance - you can't just test for existence and hope for the best.

It shows in the field too. Webkit's implementations are often buggy and incomplete, whereas while Trident might not have the broad array of implementations that Webkit does, the standards it does implement are far more refined.

I don't. I'm just tired of hearing Microsoft shills blathering on as if every company and person on the web has some obligation to design everything around their products.


Okay dude, you're just being pathetic now. And I say this as someone that often agrees with you on things such as Windows 8, I think that OS is an abomination.

But this isn't about Microsoft, this is about every other browser that isn't Chrome and making sure everyone (Including the Microsoft I currently dislike) has a fair chance at rendering a page correctly, and not being shut out by a bunch of vendor specific cruft.

#80 Crimson Rain

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:01

IE needs to die completely.. end of..

and, no, IE8, IE9 and IE10 will be the new IE6. Apple and Google along with Mozilla are following W3C and WHATWG in implementing new features and support for CSS3 and HTML and thus when we build web stuff today it just works across all of these browsers with most of the fancy effects and we are still jumping hoops and having to put up with Microsoft's IE crap.

So ironic but expected that Microsoft can't understand why they are terrible in this regard as well. IE 10 is better than all other IEs but it's STILL IE and it's still Microsoft, so we will continue supporting webkit because it evolves and browsers update themselves to be always current on user's machines while Microsoft still peddles their old proprietary crap..

Hey Microsoft, here's an idea for you.. MAKE IE based on webkit and help build a better webkit base since it's open and help developers develop for one HTML/web engine? Oh you don't want to, or you have to deal with your users who you screwed with terrible IEs? Well the web and internet in general won't wait for you. Nobody cares what you think anymore. You have shown us what web looks like with you and it's not a pretty picture and it's so ironic that we are being warned by MS about competing rendering engine not being "good" for us.

Just die already and stop whining since you are a decade late to the next generation.

What are you smoking? Mind to share with us?

#81 Stoffel

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:03

Nobody is breaking standards. If anything Webkit implements them first.


Are you just being thick on purpose? Or do you really not understand what this article is all about?

Your blind hate for MS just affects your reading comprehension it seems.

All MS is asking is, don't make the same mistake we did, the web is on the right track, lets all try to be standards compliant.

#82 jakem1

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:03

Rich coming from someone who is defending a company who killed web progress for a decade with their crap browser and is now criticizing open source webkit that has even better standards support than IE10 as being "proprietary". I guess you have to be special type of blind to miss the irony and hypocrisy in this.. The whole world is laughing at Microsoft. Riiight.. the ONLY proper test is the one sponsored by Microsoft that shows IE10 doing well with HTML5.. GOT IT!


That's your mistake. I'm not defending Microsoft per se, I'm just defending their request which is perfectly sensible. If they were saying that they want developers to use their own proprietary extensions I'd happily argue that that was a ridiculous position. However, all they're doing here is asking developers to use standards.

I'm well aware of Microsoft's history (and the irony of the situation) but you're the one who wants to see a repeat of that situation.

#83 HawkMan

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:05

Nobody is breaking standards. If anything Webkit implements them first.


ok, lets break this down to you

Step 1. W3C creates a new spec for touch controls which all browsers can implement as a standardized platform
Step 2. All browsers start implementing it.
Step 3. EXCEPT, Chrome/Webkit since google instead decides to make their own incompatible version who is also inferior in many ways.
Step 4. All browser use the standard version except chrome, and some like Opera try to implement Googles version on top of the actual standard to support both versions despite obvious functionality differences and certain things who can't be supported and translated

You're saying this is good, that this is how it should be, instead of Google just using the actual accepted Standard which is also better ?

Seriously.
FYI this is actually worse than what MS did, as back then there was a serious lack of standards, and most of the new proprietary stuff MS implemented didn't have a standard and didn't exist before. Google on the other hand is purposely breaking a standard.

#84 ArialBlue

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:05

What are you smoking? Mind to share with us?

-webkit-weed

#85 Crimson Rain

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:09

based on what? From what I see, and numbers say it all, they are following the standards the closest (btw Maxthon is webkit as well). IE10 is dead last.

And stop with this Google is doing this sh**.. Webkit is NOT Google.. Webkit is everyone. IE is Microsoft only.. this alone should make it obvious to you that MS is full of crap.

Posted Image

Please go away. If I ask you, "can you cook Bibimbap?" and you answer yes, it doesn't mean you can cook it let alone properly. That's what your quoted "test" does. So please, learn about things before talking or you will only embarrass yourself like you are doing now.

#86 Crimson Rain

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:20

...while 99% [marketshare] on mobile makes it a standard...

ok. I should have read this quote before. Then I wouldn't bother replying to a silly kid like you.


-webkit-weed

Figures. I was hoping it'd be weed instead of -webkit-weed.
99% market share means -webkit-weed is the standard, I guess.

#87 pes2013

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:23

Apple and Google along with Mozilla are following W3C

Since when is WebGL following W3C?

#88 Javik

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:38

Why the **** support any company which wants to make a web developer's life hard?


You mean like Microsoft did for nearly a decade? pot, kettle, black

Peacekeeper is not a valid benchmark. It tests things which are out of spec.


It doesn't account for them in the final score either. Peacekeeper is mainly a performance benchmark and Chrome blows IE apart on that front.

Not as tired as I am of seeing you call everyone who disagrees with you a shill. If you haven't got an argument and need to rely on abuse it would probably be best if you just don't post.


Pretty rich coming from a guy claiming that I "knew nothing" and then when proven to be wrong went off at an alternate tangent rather than admitting so.

#89 HawkMan

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:40

It doesn't account for them in the final score either. Peacekeeper is mainly a performance benchmark and Chrome blows IE apart on that front.


Of course it does peacekeeper doesn't test real world situations performance and Chrome is coded specifically to score high on the test,

#90 Javik

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:44

You mean like Microsoft coded IE9 to cheat Sunspider? I've been using Peacekeeper since it was made available and I have always found it's findings in line with what I actually get out of real world usage.



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