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Posted

According to [b]Bill Veghte[/b] of Microsoft, Microsoft projected to sell 177 Million copies of Windows.....7 at the end of the year 2009. Windows 7 was released October 22, 2009. So how many copies did Microsoft sell by the end of 2009?

[url="http://www.tgdaily.com/software-features/43208-microsoft-predicts-177-million-windows-7-shipments-by-year-end"]http://www.tgdaily.c...nts-by-year-end[/url]


60 million. That's almost 1/3 of their projections. And how much did Windows 7 eventually sell? 700 mill

To quote Ricky Roma(some of you will understand),

You never open your mouth until you know what the shot is

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Posted

[quote name='vcfan' timestamp='1353460663' post='595338008']
According to [b]Bill Veghte[/b] of Microsoft, Microsoft projected to sell 177 Million copies of Windows.....7 at the end of the year 2009. Windows 7 was released October 22, 2009. So how many copies did Microsoft sell by the end of 2009?

[url="http://www.tgdaily.com/software-features/43208-microsoft-predicts-177-million-windows-7-shipments-by-year-end"]http://www.tgdaily.c...nts-by-year-end[/url]


60 million. That's almost 1/3 of their projections. And how much did Windows 7 eventually sell? 700 mill

To quote Ricky Roma(some of you will understand),

You never open your mouth until you know what the shot is
[/quote]

Booming eceonomy (7) vs. crappy economy (8) - not exactly a fair comparison.

In fact, can anyone name a version of Windows that released in an economy even close to being this bad?

For all the sniping over the differences in Windows 7 vs. 8 being why folks aren't upgrading, at the end of the day, it's still just one more excuse to NOT upgrade - the real driver for staying pat being a poor economy.

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[quote name='PGHammer' timestamp='1353513150' post='595339338']
Booming eceonomy (7) vs. crappy economy (8) - not exactly a fair comparison.

In fact, can anyone name a version of Windows that released in an economy even close to being this bad?

For all the sniping over the differences in Windows 7 vs. 8 being why folks aren't upgrading, at the end of the day, it's still just one more excuse to NOT upgrade - the real driver for staying pat being a poor economy.
[/quote]

The economy wasn't awesome in 2009 -.^
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Posted

[quote name='PGHammer' timestamp='1353513150' post='595339338']
Booming eceonomy (7) vs. crappy economy (8) - not exactly a fair comparison.

In fact, can anyone name a version of Windows that released in an economy even close to being this bad?

For all the sniping over the differences in Windows 7 vs. 8 being why folks aren't upgrading, at the end of the day, it's still just one more excuse to NOT upgrade - the real driver for staying pat being a poor economy.
[/quote]

Booming economy in 2009? What the motherf*** are you talking about?
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Posted

[quote name='PGHammer' timestamp='1353513150' post='595339338']
Booming eceonomy (7) vs. crappy economy (8) - not exactly a fair comparison.

In fact, can anyone name a version of Windows that released in an economy even close to being this bad?

For all the sniping over the differences in Windows 7 vs. 8 being why folks aren't upgrading, at the end of the day, it's still just one more excuse to NOT upgrade - the real driver for staying pat being a poor economy.
[/quote]

Booming economy? 2009 was in the height of the global recession. We're much better now than we were back then.

The booming economy was during the XP days and prior.
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Posted

[quote name='Astra.Xtreme' timestamp='1353513466' post='595339364']
Booming economy? 2009 was in the height of the global recession. We're much better now than we were back then.

The booming economy was during the XP days and prior.
[/quote]

No - actually we aren't - neither globally or even just in the US.

Until the labor participation rate (LPR) gets even back to when it was when Bush the Younger LEFT office, we aren't even back to 2009 levels.

The economy is worse now than when even Windows 7 launched, and Windows 8 has the SAME hardware requirements as 7 - not exactly a reason to upgrade (either hardware OR OS) if you have Windows 7 already, is it?

Between the still-crappy economy, and the basically flat hardware requirements (compared to 7), what is there to drive either hardware OR OS upgrades - even assuming that Windows 8 were unchanged from Windows 7? (I'm citing Windows 8's critics, mind - my opinion on Windows 8 is known.)

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Posted

[quote name='PGHammer' timestamp='1353589811' post='595341870']
The economy is worse now than when even Windows 7 launched, and Windows 8 has the SAME hardware requirements as 7 - not exactly a reason to upgrade (either hardware OR OS) if you have Windows 7 already, is it?
[/quote]

Vista had the same requirements as 7.

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Posted

Also.. 8 retails for < 100$ 7 was> > $100. I don't think the economy is at fault.
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Posted

It's just so convenient claiming the economy is the reason why Windows 8 is well bellow projections...
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Posted

Wait until after Christmas season PC sales. If they're still that far behind projections, there may be a problem.

The questions to ask are:

"Why buy Windows 8?"
"Is it easy to use/figure out?"
"What compelling reason is there to buy Windows 8?"
"What can I do better with Windows 8?"
"Is there anything I want to do that I need Windows 8 for, that I can't easily do now with what I have?"
"What great apps are available for Windows 8 Tablets?"
"Does Windows 8 and Windows 8 Phones just work like my iPad and iPhone?"
"Can I easily manage my music and videos on a Windows 8 Phone or Tablet? Like my iPad or iPhone."

I'm not sure MS asked or answered any of those questions internally, even to this day.
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Posted

[quote name='PGHammer' timestamp='1353513150' post='595339338']
Booming eceonomy (7) vs. crappy economy (8) - not exactly a fair comparison.
[/quote]

Ha ha, wow. I know the Windows 8 white knights are getting desperate but come on. Booming economy in 2009? :laugh:

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[quote name='firey' timestamp='1353590397' post='595341888']
Also.. 8 retails for < 100$ 7 was> > $100. I don't think the economy is at fault.
[/quote]

There were free upgrade deals for Windows 7 as well as the family pack that gave you 3 copies for $150. The $40 digital upgrade or the $70 for the DVD for Win8 is pretty much the same thing. OEM/System builder copies of both OS's are close to the same as well. The price difference isn't as drastic as you make it sound. The economy does come into play, saying 2009 wasn't better than where we are now in 2012 would be silly. Lots of countries are in worse positions than back in 2009, it's a fact.

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Posted

[quote name='thealexweb' timestamp='1353590058' post='595341876']
Vista had the same requirements as 7.
[/quote]

I think the thing was that everbody perceived Vista to be a poor OS (even though most were just parroting things that they'd heard elsewhere) that they should get shut of as soon as possible, so when 7 came out and got good reviews plenty of people wanted the upgrade. The Windows 8 reviews are like that of Marmite, you love it or hate it, and you will have to learn new ways of doing things - so most non pc-literate people are probably going to save their cash and stay with what they know (until they buy a new pc and it comes preinstalled).
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Posted

[quote name='PGHammer' timestamp='1353513150' post='595339338']
Booming eceonomy (7) vs. crappy economy (8) - not exactly a fair comparison.
[/quote]

Surely you meant to say bombing economy, right?
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Posted

[quote name='PGHammer' timestamp='1353513150' post='595339338']
Booming eceonomy (7) vs. crappy economy (8) - not exactly a fair comparison.

In fact, can anyone name a version of Windows that released in an economy even close to being this bad?

For all the sniping over the differences in Windows 7 vs. 8 being why folks aren't upgrading, at the end of the day, it's still just one more excuse to NOT upgrade - the real driver for staying pat being a poor economy.
[/quote]

There were no tablets when 7 came out either. 7 was talked up while 8 is being talked down, so that will effect peoples decision.

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[quote name='nekrosoft13' timestamp='1353595636' post='595342064']
windows 8 sells like crap, because it is crap. hard to make someone buy windows 8, when the already have much better 7
[/quote]

Come on now, the Music app is crap, and some of the other Metro apps leave a lot to be desired, but Windows 8 as it relates to upgrade from 7, is actually superior as far as stability and performance I'm finding. The only difference is the Start Menu is now a Start Page, and well, Search is an abomination.

The real problem is apps perform really well on Windows 8; unfortunately for MS, same apps perform as well on Windows 7. Finally got Burnout Paradise 2 with super DirectX 11 graphics (read: Need for Speed, Most Wanted = Burnout Paradise 2 with super DirectX 11 graphics). Great on Windows 8, runs exactly the same on Windows 7.

Office 2013 is the best Office yet IMO, runs super on Windows 8. Runs super on Windows 7. :/

That's going to be Windows 8's problem until there are great apps for Windows 8/RT/Metro.
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[quote name='nekrosoft13' timestamp='1353595636' post='595342064']
windows 8 sells like crap, because it is crap. hard to make someone buy windows 8, when the already have much better 7
[/quote]

Wrong - the advantage that 7 has over 8 is that folks are already familiar with it; that is, in fact, the ONLY advantage 7 has. When the economy is crap, however, it's enough.

I can actually give you a datapoint from earlier in Windows' history, in fact - Windows 3.x vs. Windows for Workgroups 3.11. The original Windows for Workgroups (3.1) was, except for some networking features, utterly identical to Windows 3.1, yet despite the better networking support (not just for workgroups, but it was a better LAN client than Windows 3.x even on Novell LANs), it languished so badly it gained the unfortunate sobriquet of "Windows for Warehouses". What got Windows for Workgroups out of the warehouses and onto thousands of PCs was a face-off between it and Windows 3.1 on identical hardware otherwise, and WfWG cleaned Windows 3.x' clock performance-wise.

Also, let's get real - if Windows 8 had, instead of changing as radically as it did, kept the familiar Windows 7 UI, complete with Start menu, it likely would be dismissed, by the SAME folks pooh-poohing Windows 8 today, as not different enough to warrant upgrading. As much as folks chastised Windows 7 for being too basic/bland/boring, let a major change come about and folks start getting a hankering for *vanilla*. FUD and excuses - and I'm getting rather disgusted with both.
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Posted

windows 7 also had an advantage due to the fact that some people didn't upgrade for years and years and years skipping Vista.

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[quote name='PGHammer' timestamp='1353612045' post='595342682']
Also, let's get real - if Windows 8 had, instead of changing as radically as it did, kept the familiar Windows 7 UI, complete with Start menu, it likely would be dismissed, by the SAME folks pooh-poohing Windows 8 today, as not different enough to warrant upgrading. As much as folks chastised Windows 7 for being too basic/bland/boring, let a major change come about and folks start getting a hankering for *vanilla*. FUD and excuses - and I'm getting rather disgusted with both.
[/quote]

Can't agree with this part. The key being radical. I think no one would complain about the Windows 8 upgrade as far as the desktop environment goes. They'd be quite happy as many miss Aero glass. Many just want better system-wide icons, lol (which they will never get). It's the radical change that took away what some people find quite productive. Unified search that virtually always returned what you were looking for in a nice accessible area with full context menus from that result. That simply won't work in the metro UI, it could, but it would keep contextual menu at the forefront of usability/productivity and context menus don't really lend themselves to Metro.

Hierarchical menus is what many miss from Start menu and is quite productive and useful. Metro "cannot" handle long lists or easily/quickly dig deep. Even some nice, and free, metro file browsers are nowhere near as quick or efficient as the Start menu with Computer displayed as a list.

I do think the masses are fine without it. Power users will absolutely miss it, though explorer is still there at the end of the day. The bigger issue may be Microsoft made this radical change in spite of what it's core supporters, who have supported them for years, wanted.

Nothing about this radical change is easy. It had to be done, it did not have to be done in a vacuum which MS chose to do. Change isn't easy. It's not going to be easy for power users who are now the minority, and it clearly won't be easy for Microsoft to change it's internal culture who's disfunctionality is showing itself in the Windows 8 Product line (excluding the Server product which as usual, delivers in spite of the bloated bureaucracy that is now Microsoft)

Edit: If everything worked well, which it does not, I think this would be going down easier. But you can't expect people to take steps backwards with a smile. And some things are not better, are worse, and will hopefully improve. I've said it before, great apps, which includes games, makes everything OK. For the first time, MS doesn't have that at the moment. At least none that can't be had on Windows 7 where the people complaining are quite satisfied.
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Posted

[quote name='rippleman' timestamp='1353612564' post='595342698']
windows 7 also had an advantage due to the fact that some people didn't upgrade for years and years and years skipping Vista.
[/quote]

I agree with this, but also that Windows 8 isn't very good for desktop hardware.

Windows 7 came out when a lot of people were still using Windows XP, they held off getting a Windows Vista PC, or did and upgraded Vista afterwards because 7 was said to be much better by almost all the -techs-, that helped push a lot of copies.

---------------------

Now we have Windows 8, a short time after, with no real major new desktop hardware advances, people just don't see the need to upgrade
Sure, there will be a few people here and there replacing broken hardware/etc, and since there is a buttload of people on the planet it may
even be upwards of 100+m given enough time.

Most companies wont see the value in upgrading to Windows 8 either, added costs in licenses, the man hours rolling it out, the initial
productivity cost, that may or may not level out.

You can't really blame the economy, sure Windows 7 had deals, but nowhere near the low cost of purchase Windows 8 has
And depending on where you are, the economy may or may not be better than it was in 2009, here it is better.

Only time will tell, personally I think Microsoft will cave into demand for the option to use the start screen vs the start menu
And I really don't see why some ModernUI diehards are so against that, as if consumer choice was bad or something

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[quote name='JaredFrost' timestamp='1353614366' post='595342780']
Only time will tell, personally I think Microsoft will cave into demand for the option to use the start screen vs the start menu
And I really don't see why some ModernUI diehards are so against that, as if consumer choice was bad or something
[/quote]

If it can't be used with tablets and other PC form factors, I don't think you will see it come back in the fashion you want it to. Personally, I don't even think it will come back, nor do I think it needs to come back. Windows 8 is the beginning of a transformation into a new OS. Microsoft has stated they want to move forward, not back.

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Posted

They was onto such a good thing with Win 7, they could have added an option for a Win Phone UI when in mobile mode and what a beauty it could have been.
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All the people bemoaning the lack of customization in Windows 8 and praising the Start Menu/Windows 7 amuse me so much. The inability to do something as simple as use classic visual style on ironically, the Start Menu, is one reason why I never moved to 7. Windows 7 become cluttered and unorganized with so many redundant menus and options that it was as if they were trying to mimic Blackberry.

Right now there are only three things I'm not liking about Windows 8: Metro IE, hidden power menu, and the lack of a Wireless Connection Manager. The latter has me rather ****ed as it literally makes no sense from a keep-it-simple or system security perspective. As I learned with 7 though, sometimes Microsoft changes core computer functionality just for the heck of it.

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[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1353615018' post='595342818']
If it can't be used with tablets and other PC form factors, I don't think you will see it come back in the fashion you want it to. Personally, I don't even think it will come back, nor do I think it needs to come back. Windows 8 is the beginning of a transformation into a new OS. Microsoft has stated they want to move forward, not back.
[/quote]

At this point we're both speculating on what may happen, as I said only time will tell, but for me, there is no one size fits all for UI vs input, you'll just end up with a frankenstein UI that on
neither platforms excels.

Also a lot of people view the ModernUI as several steps backwards in desktop UI design, in tablet design though, I'm sure it functions well, but then you have the desktop element
in this frankenstein UI holding the touch devices back, this isn't a win win situation in my mind, both sides lose.
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Posted

Windows 8 is too new. Give people time to adjust to it and in a year or so I suspect things will be much different.
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