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Posted

Great post mram.
[quote name='mram' timestamp='1353654635' post='595343858']
Seriously, are we all supposed to go out and buy small tablets now, to suit the OS? I thought the OS was supposed to suit the device.
[/quote]
IMO this is the major problem with Windows 8. The first thing I learned when I started looking into usability (for web design) was that you design according to the target form factor for your audience. They are repeating what happened with their last tablet effort, but in reverse.

I get the whole "unified UI" idea, which is good in itself. The problem is the method. They could have had 3 systems with a largely similar code base (to reduce developer work) and a largely similar visual style (for cohesion), but optimised each one for the platform.

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Posted

[quote name='nohone' timestamp='1353567907' post='595341548']
If he had given Win8 a glowing report he would be forgotten to history because no web site would have written about him.
[/quote]

I'd bet he would have made FPN.

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Posted

[quote name='Shane Nokes' timestamp='1353642858' post='595343600']
Note what he says there. He designed in the 90's and other than changing from : to > he hasn't done much.

His site was bad back then, and it is still bad now.

I won't bother arguing beyond this though since evidently what I say doesn't matter.
[/quote]

But you've failed to explain how his own site is poor from a usability standpoint. Your main argument is it looks crap (subjective) but that's not what usability is. If you actually look at usability in an objective way it's all about things like learnability, ease of use, ease of finding information and possibly other considerations like speed and responsiveness (in terms of layout).

You could argue there is little wrong with the site from these perspectives. It's super fast, simply laid out and relatively easy to navigate around. It's even inherently responsive simply because it has a minimal layout and no extraneous elements that need to be considered in the stylesheet.

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Posted

Nielsen is an absolutely unreliable source on REAL WORLD usability. His views are so hard-and-fast that he has fallen behind in what users expect. Been saying the same for years.

Sure, read his theories, and take them on board - but only as one of many idea. Not as rules!

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Posted

[quote name='technikal' timestamp='1353682241' post='595344362']
But you've failed to explain how his own site is poor from a usability standpoint. Your main argument is it looks crap (subjective) but that's not what usability is. If you actually look at usability in an objective way it's all about things like learnability, ease of use, ease of finding information and possibly other considerations like speed and responsiveness (in terms of layout).

You could argue there is little wrong with the site from these perspectives. It's super fast, simply laid out and relatively easy to navigate around. It's even inherently responsive simply because it has a minimal layout and no extraneous elements that need to be considered in the stylesheet.
[/quote]
The line length for his content is too long on every article page. It makes it difficult to read.
There is no navigation to other pages, eg you have to go back to the homepage to read other articles, this results in many more clicks than websites with decent navigation.
No scroll to top - PIA with his long articles.
No visual hierachy. Just having 2 lists on the home page means you have no idea where to look.
These are pretty important useability issues imo. Especially if you are heralded as a "useability expert".
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Posted

[quote name='the better twin' timestamp='1353684836' post='595344458']

The line length for his content is too long on every article page. It makes it difficult to read.
There is no navigation to other pages, eg you have to go back to the homepage to read other articles, this results in many more clicks than websites with decent navigation.
No scroll to top - PIA with his long articles.
No visual hierachy. Just having 2 lists on the home page means you have no idea where to look.
These are pretty important useability issues imo. Especially if you are heralded as a "useability expert".
[/quote]

Bingo.

This is a very clear way of saying what I've been trying to get across.

This is what I meant when I was referring to the idea that simplicity doesn't equal usability.

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Posted

[quote name='Growled' timestamp='1353559018' post='595341354']
If he had given a glowing report of Windows 8 he would have been a genus. Windows 8 has potential but it also has some poor design ideas. Shutdown on Windows 8 is a good example of a poor design idea.
[/quote]


Interesting!! I usually just hit the power button and it goes off. Am I doing something wrong?

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Posted

[quote name='mram' timestamp='1353654635' post='595343858']
Exactly.

I do like the ideas behind Windows 8, but even Windows 95 had videos and the option to launch Program Manager. Windows 8 by comparison is shoving change down your throat in an inconsistent way - not even an intuitive way - and it doesn't have the appearance of benefiting you in any way.

People adapt to change when it has tangible benefit, even if you can't see it yet. They'll usually try it once. Just like the UX guy said on that video: "we want to get rid of the blue flash. They'll only see it once, but it'll still leave a bad impression." That's the point. If we don't "get it" on the UI changes [i][b]when we first need to experience them[/b][/i], you've lost us. After that point, it will simply feel painful, and just like "the customer is always right", you can't make me feel better about it, you can only educate it in. I don't see any education here, just "our way is the only way, you're holding it wrong, you never need to shut down, that large monitor is completely wasted for fullscreen metro apps, right click is useless now" etc etc ad nauseum.

I generally love changes. I really even like radical changes. I have used OS/2, Windows, Linux, MacOS, etc. as my primary desktop machine for years. But everything he says in this article is true -- Windows might be forward thinking and radical, but the more radical a departure from the norm things are, the more you have to be coddled into it, or the acceptance rate is abysmal. And it had better make sense too. This has the problem of not having either. Win8 doesnt have a cohesive strategy, is not intuitive, has no instruction (the one screen of "touch the corner" is laughable) and is a radical departure.

It is very much like Vista except instead of being a resource hog, it's a usability pain. People will not adopt it for the desktop, where it has very little perceived benefit. You can't sell me for years that multiple windows is good and then sell me an OS where windows are now removed for your new Metro interface and my 1920x1200+ displays are wasted. And just sitting back and saying "we're smarter than you" isn't going to help in this regard. It's not like Antennagate -- which was stupid too -- that particular problem was obviously hardware and obviously fixed too. This is a whole paradigm shift into non-intuitiveness.

I cannot stand surfing in fullscreen mode Metro IE. The wasted right and left side of the screen for fixed-width sites is a real eyesore. Not to mention Office 2013 follow on that model by delivering color schemes of "white" and "almost white".

Seriously, are we all supposed to go out and buy small tablets now, to suit the OS? I thought the OS was supposed to suit the device.
[/quote]


I think you are way off base because the desktop is still there for you to use. If you don't like Metro apps then you can stay in the desktop. Use your entire screen and have multiple windows open. I am not a MS apologist I can see things are not perfect but your concerns are unfounded. I think MS is trying to ease everyone into the new Windows by including both Metro and traditional environments. I also know that this is/was the only way for people to even begin to accept the new Windows. I have enjoyed W8 and I want to install it on my new system. Also all the talk about learning the new system is simple talk because when 95 came out the internet was not around like it is now. YouTube is there for anyone and MS even has tutorials online.

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Posted

Take everything from Nielsen with a grain of salt.

[quote name='pwgarner' post='595345686']Interesting!! I usually just hit the power button and it goes off. Am I doing something wrong?[/quote]Never used Windows 8, so I don't know. Does it also shutdown when you're locked?

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Posted

[quote name='tiagosilva29' timestamp='1353766898' post='595346392']
Take everything from Nielsen with a grain of salt.

Never used Windows 8, so I don't know. Does it also shutdown when you're locked?
[/quote]

Yup.

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Posted

Windows 8 could almost be used with an 8bit videocard. It's dual color.
It's not beautiful. There's too much text and vector graphics. Apple managed to deal with super high res. the best way it should be done.
Windows 8 is a children's drawing. People also like shiny things. The metro UI won't work... not in phones, much less on a desktop. Maybe on a tablet, yes.

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Posted

[quote name='GreyWolf' post='595346438']Yup.[/quote]Yup-Nielsen, Yup-lock&shutdown or both?

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