48 replies to this topic

[Anaron]

Even if the local doctors in Hungary didn't know the details of her "lengthy medical history", they could have done something to help. I think the mistake the couple made was to refuse medical attention.

[Shane Nokes]

Hardcore Til I Die, on 26 November 2012 - 22:47, said:

425lbs though? I'm skeptical. I know that a lot of obese people like to use illness as an excuse for their own failings.

Diabetes & Kidney Failure...

That's already explained in the article. Have you ever seen what happens to someone who has failing kidneys and has had a leg amputated?

I've seen a very similar situation with my mother...and yes you can gain water weight very quickly. My mom also has another condition that exacerbates things. So right now at this point her skin is so swollen from water weight that it has actually had a small split in one place...and yes this is with multiple specialists trying to do something.

While I agree that a lot of people do find excuses for being overweight...diabetes and kidney failure combo is generally a legit situation.

[SPEhosting]

kind of her own fault....

[Shane Nokes]

SPEhosting, on 26 November 2012 - 23:25, said:

kind of her own fault....

What part of diabetes and kidney failure causing water weight is her fault?

[Growled]

It was her own fault for refusing treatment, but the airline isn't entirely blameless in this. They got her out there and they should have gotten her back. I would have no problems ruling for the family in this.

[+warwagon]

How could she even fit in the seat?

[theyarecomingforyou]

I am dubious whenever claims are made about medical conditions that make people overweight, as all too often that's just an excuse. Even if it was a genuine condition, she should have been in a specialised care unit to maintain a sensible body mass. Clearly her weight was out of control and it cost her her life.

The article implies that she turned down medical care in Hungary, so it's her own fault - not that of the airline.

warwagon, on 26 November 2012 - 23:47, said:

How could she even fit in the seat?

Seats. She was actually assigned three seats but they couldn't support her weight, nor could they fasten the seatbelt even with the extender.

[Shane Nokes]

theyarecomingforyou, on 27 November 2012 - 00:07, said:

I am dubious whenever claims are made about medical conditions that make people overweight, as all too often that's just an excuse. Even if it was a genuine condition, she should have been in a specialised care unit to maintain a sensible body mass. Clearly her weight was out of control and it cost her her life.

The article implies that she turned down medical care in Hungary, so it's her own fault - not that of the airline.



Seats. She was actually assigned three seats but they couldn't support her weight, nor could they fasten the seatbelt even with the extender.

Being dubious stops when a person has had a foot removed & their internal organs are failing.

I can see someone questioning a person who is overweight, but has all of their limbs, and otherwise seems to function.

It's different when it's gotten to the point that limbs have been removed and organs are failing and require constant watch and treatment. That's a point when the person obviously has a physical condition that is causing other things to go wrong.

Like I said...my mom is a good study on this. When I was young she was about a size 2...she did modelling when she was younger. Around the time I was 7 she started having some health issues. Her weight started to go up. They found out she had a couple medical conditions that were causing problems. She actually had some things removed, and during a surgery an error was made and her pancreas was knicked.

This led to her not producing insulin correctly, which in turn led to diabetes. This has led to all sorts of complications with the other conditions. The doctors had managed to balance things somewhat...but that tipped the scales.

Now at the age of 52 she is legally blind in one eye...has to have injections and work done on the other eye constantly just to keep her vision. She now weighs over 200 pounds, and a huge chunk of that is water weight. Right now they are hoping that they won't have to take her feet. As is the neuropathy is pretty bad...but the water weight is actually damaging the tissues of both of her feet.


Now I realize this is a long post, but there's a point to it. In a lot of cases health issues like this can occur as a fault of genetics mixed with various other issues. You would be surprised how many surgeries end up with folks having a knicked pancreas...and it causes everything else to go downhill.

Now is that the case for this woman? I have no idea. The point is we don't know...so we probably shouldn't judge in this case without knowing her full medical history. After all I know a ton of people who have been derisive towards my mother when they see her on a scooter...because just looking at her she looks like she's overweight without cause. They don't what's going in internally causing that weight.


Crap...and now me posting that long thing led to me missing the one deal I wanted today on Amazon.

[Growled]

theyarecomingforyou, on 27 November 2012 - 00:07, said:

I am dubious whenever claims are made about medical conditions that make people overweight, as all too often that's just an excuse. Even if it was a genuine condition, she should have been in a specialised care unit to maintain a sensible body mass. Clearly her weight was out of control and it cost her her life.

The article said her condition caused water weight. So her condition caused her weight and not the other way around.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Shane Nokes, on 27 November 2012 - 00:26, said:

Being dubious stops when a person has had a foot removed & their internal organs are failing.

I can see someone questioning a person who is overweight, but has all of their limbs, and otherwise seems to function.

Not at all. Amputation is a common consequence of diabetes, which is a weight-related medical condition. As for her kidney failure, given her weight it's entirely probable it was related to diabetic kidney disease; the article even mentions diabetes.

Shane Nokes, on 27 November 2012 - 00:26, said:

It's different when it's gotten to the point that limbs have been removed and organs are failing and require constant watch and treatment. That's a point when the person obviously has a physical condition that is causing other things to go wrong.

All of her conditions can be attributed to her excessive weight and could just as easily be explained without an underlying medical condition.

Shane Nokes, on 27 November 2012 - 00:26, said:

Like I said...my mom is a good study on this. When I was young she was about a size 2...she did modelling when she was younger. Around the time I was 7 she started having some health issues. Her weight started to go up. They found out she had a couple medical conditions that were causing problems. She actually had some things removed, and during a surgery an error was made and her pancreas was knicked.

This led to her not producing insulin correctly, which in turn led to diabetes. This has led to all sorts of complications with the other conditions. The doctors had managed to balance things somewhat...but that tipped the scales.

As I said, I don't dispute that many people have legitimate medical conditions that cause them to be overweight or that this might have been the case with her. But too often people are quick to blame everybody else rather than accept responsibility, which is especially true in this situation where they seem to have rejected medical treatment due to fear of doctors not knowing her medical history and distrust of the institutions. There are a lot of questionable statements and omissions in the article that cause me to be suspicious.

PS - I'm sorry to hear about your mother and I know this is obviously an issue close to your heart. Obviously I mean no offence. My doubts are speculation on my part but I believe they are well founded.

[jakem1]

Growled, on 26 November 2012 - 23:43, said:

It was her own fault for refusing treatment, but the airline isn't entirely blameless in this. They got her out there and they should have gotten her back. I would have no problems ruling for the family in this.

Maybe she wasn't as big on the way out or perhaps she was just lucky that the outbound flight had the extra equipment needed to transport her. Either way I can't understand why she didn't go to a hospital in Hungary if she was that ill and the claim about wanting to be with familiar doctors doesn't make much sense. Maybe she didn't have travel insurance.

[Simon-]

Shane Nokes, on 26 November 2012 - 23:39, said:

What part of diabetes and kidney failure causing water weight is her fault?

I don't blame her for her obsesity whatsoever, it is clearly due to medical circumstances she can't control, however she clearly was not fit to travel in the first place, as aining water weight was a possibility that could tip her over the edge of what a commercial aircraft can handle preventing her safe return, and if she still wanted to take the risk anyway despite this, she should have allowed for the possibility that she would be stranded there unless she seeks local medical attention before either 1. losing enough weight to be able to fly home 2. take a ship back home 3. get a medical evacuation charter flight which can handle the load (unlikely that travel insurance would cover - this is caused by a pre-existing medical condition) 4. accept that she is stuck back in her native country and live the rest of her days there.

Looks like Option #4 happened by default.

[thechronic]

Quote

Seats. She was actually assigned three seats but they couldn't support her weight, nor could they fasten the seatbelt even with the extender.

Which is why the airline cannot be sued for 'failing to protect those with disabilities' because ultimately the staff considered her safety on the aircraft and they have no responsibility beyond that.

[Intrinsica]

Hum, on 26 November 2012 - 21:12, said:

Neither of the couple trusted the doctors in Hungary, especially because they wouldn’t be familiar with her lengthy medical history, Janos said.

“She was very ill and did not trust that the hospitals in former communist Hungary could attend to her needs,” Ronai said.

Personally I don't have much sympathy for obese people. These two sentences solidified my stance regarding this situation. She had the option of medical attention, and she didn't take it because she didn't trust them. That decision worked out well for her...

[alwaysonacoffebreak]

MidTxWRX, on 26 November 2012 - 22:09, said:

While I am disgusted by people who have no self control when it comes to their body, her obesity was due to disease.

I'm sorry, which diseas actually makes you weigh in at 425lbs? This will sound rude but if you're already going 350+, go see a doctor or get your fat ass into a gym.