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Intel is reportedly going to kill the CPU socket

intel socket cpu

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#61 vetneufuse

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 15:09

If they are going BGA instead of LGA couldn't we still have sockets though? just because it's BGA doesn't mean it has to be soldered to a board, they do have BGA sockets out there

heck maybe this chip line will be laptop only, which would make sense with a BGA package


#62 hckngrtfakt

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 15:29

The name of the source is Semiaccurate.com. That should leave some room for error.


That's what i thought at first too,... then i stumbled upon this other one over the weekend

http://www.legitrevi...com/news/14561/

AM3+ Here i come :woot:

#63 vetneufuse

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 15:31

That's what i thought at first too,... then i stumbled upon this other one over the weekend

http://www.legitrevi...com/news/14561/

AM3+ Here i come :woot:


and in the next two years AMD goes under, then what?

#64 threetonesun

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 15:32

That was the point of the post GS quoted really...

The failure rate may be low (no data on if it is low or not), but when you fall on the unfavorable side of the statistic you can recover quickly. Otherwise, you're at the mercy of someone else to get you up and running and they won't care half as much as you do about your ability to get back up and running quickly.

Additionally, even with super high tech clean rooms and etc. you still have parts that fail prematurely or arrive dead. So soldering it all in one unit and building it all in house won't eliminate this. It may lower it, but again you're hoping not to fall on the wrong side of the statistic as you're at the mercy of someone else when you do.


You're always at the mercy of someone else. As I said before, it's not like if my CPU dies I pop it out and rewire the transistors. It goes in the bin and I get a new one. If the whole thing goes, it's just a matter of cost, and if soldering the chips on makes the process cheaper, then that's a non issue as well.

To put it another way, if your CPU or Mobo dies, your SOL in either scenario. I imagine the case where you happen to have one or the other with a compatible chip lying around is pretty slim.

#65 Mordkanin

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 15:33

sounds like you just finished some related college course :p


Not really. I design industrial power supplies, for the most part. Haven't been in college for several years. The problems I listed are pretty basic, and every design decision to fix any problem always comes with a price.

#66 threetonesun

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 15:36

and in the next two years AMD goes under, then what?


AMD isn't going anywhere. I don't know how much longer they'll be in the CPU-only business for, but they'll be around.

#67 n_K

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 15:48

It's inevitable for some basic engineering purposes that every EE has to deal with: Cost, thermal, parasitics, size.

These sockets are EXPENSIVE.

They offer decreased thermal performance. You can use thermal vias with a BGA package, and suck heat out the back of the board.

Electrically, sockets tend to suck, a lot. You're sticking a little LC network on every pin. That's bad, and hurts switching. You can get lower voltages and better performance off a BGA.

And size. Ah size. LGA2011 has a pitch of ~1mm in a hex array. 0.3mm square pitches exist in BGA form. The pin density available is insanely better. You can't achieve that with a socket.

Actually the downside or benefit (downside for consumers, benefit for production company) of BGA is that any BGA that gets hot causes the lead-free solder to melt and over time causes joints to come into contact with each other or not connect the bottom of the BGA to the board.
I don't see how sockets suck much if any power. If you're talking about nano-volts they yes, maybe, the resistance in the pins would be nil unless you could get an incredibly accurate meter that could measure to thousands of a nano-ohm. Again, solder on BGA means they need to run cooler and to run cooler then need to run with less performance.

#68 +warwagon

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 15:56

Won't this make motherboard replacements for consumers even more expensive than they already are?

#69 +Tech Greek

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:02

Intel will realize once again why the enthusiast market should not be over looked.

We may not be the demographic they are targeting, but we influence the demographic they do target very heavily. If they go through with this, I personally (and my company) will push AMD.

#70 threetonesun

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:02

Won't this make motherboard replacements for consumers even more expensive than they already are?


A lot of consumer PCs have soldered chips already.

#71 giantpotato

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:07

Don't Intel force you to buy a new socket board for each new CPU release anyway?


That's not really the point. Even if you always buy a new motherboard with a new CPU, if they were integrated you would have far less choices. Right now ASUS makes 9 socket 1155 motherboards. Intel has ~30 1155 processors. You can mix and match between ~270 combinations to maximize performance for your budget. If Mobo+CPU were integrated, you can be damn sure than ASUS wouldn't manufacture 270 different motherboard+cpu combos.

#72 Mordkanin

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:13

Actually the downside or benefit (downside for consumers, benefit for production company) of BGA is that any BGA that gets hot causes the lead-free solder to melt and over time causes joints to come into contact with each other or not connect the bottom of the BGA to the board.
I don't see how sockets suck much if any power. If you're talking about nano-volts they yes, maybe, the resistance in the pins would be nil unless you could get an incredibly accurate meter that could measure to thousands of a nano-ohm. Again, solder on BGA means they need to run cooler and to run cooler then need to run with less performance.


If the BGA joint fails then CTE matching and cooling was done incorrectly. (nVidia knows the CTE mismatch problem quite well. Remember all those laptop failures?)

nano-ohm


Who is talking ohms?

I said they act like a very tiny LC network. Even a few nanohenries of inductance / a few picofarads of capacitance is non-trivial at these speeds. Why do you think they put zigzags/squiggles in traces on a board for these signals? Gotta keep all things equal for good signal integrity.

#73 Detection

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:29

That's not really the point. Even if you always buy a new motherboard with a new CPU, if they were integrated you would have far less choices. Right now ASUS makes 9 socket 1155 motherboards. Intel has ~30 1155 processors. You can mix and match between ~270 combinations to maximize performance for your budget. If Mobo+CPU were integrated, you can be damn sure than ASUS wouldn't manufacture 270 different motherboard+cpu combos.


Yea true, probably a couple low spec, med spec and high end, much the same choice we get with Windows versions

#74 vetneufuse

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:35

AMD isn't going anywhere. I don't know how much longer they'll be in the CPU-only business for, but they'll be around.


well that's what I meant, their CPU division goes under

A lot of consumer PCs have soldered chips already.


which? outside of thin systems, and laptops, and ultra low wattage systems, virtually all desktops are LGA type systems

#75 Wakers

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:37

It has been pointed out (but I think some of you missed it) that the architecture following the one talked about in the article will be LGA also..



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