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Windows 8 Sales are actually Amazing - 40 million sold


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#346 Dot Matrix

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 20:28

,

Even if the web browser was open it's much slower to bring the app back in focus and click the address bar, than it is to use the run box with windows key + R


If your mouse is so slow, then should you not increase the tracking speed?


#347 +LogicalApex

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 20:30

See that is were I think power user vs normal users differs. A power user won't take the time to open a browser and click an address bar. He will do a windows key + R Type www.(the web site).com press enter and be done with it.


Additionally, countless Windows programs depend on this functionality as this allows them to ensure they open the default browser instead of figuring out what browsers users have installed (the app sends the url to the API as if it were a file to execute). So it isn't that arcane or odd.


....

SERIOUSLY...

you don't code for a living do you...


I'm not sure if you're serious or not... But if you are... I'd recommend you read some of the fundamentals of the craft such as Hunt's The Pragmatic Programmer and understand why the DRY Principal he mentions is considered a fundamental part of software engineering.

You can also Google it... But actually learning the concepts is far more important.

#348 +warwagon

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 20:30

If your mouse is so slow, then should you not increase the tracking speed?


and if hands are already on the keyboard it's slower just to take your hands off the keyboard and put it on the mouse.

#349 +LogicalApex

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 20:34

Another difference between Search and Run, with run, you HAVE to know the filepath. Let's be honest, no one, and I mean no one, remembers file paths, no do they want to sit there and type them out, when Search works faster and more efficiently.


Actually, no you don't. Any application whose path is in the PATH environment variable or in the APP_PATH registry key will launch just by typing the executable name.

Try it yourself... Type "Winword" to open MS Word or "Firefox" to open Firefox. Works like a charm.

#350 BajiRav

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 20:35

,

Even if the web browser was open it's much slower to bring the app back in focus and click the address bar, than it is to use the run box with windows key + R

switch with alt+tab/winkey+# and then press F4 to jump to the address bar :p (only if you use IE though)

#351 HawkMan

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 20:38

Additionally, countless Windows programs depend on this functionality as this allows them to ensure they open the default browser instead of figuring out what browsers users have installed (the app sends the url to the API as if it were a file to execute). So it isn't that arcane or odd.




I'm not sure if you're serious or not... But if you are... I'd recommend you read some of the fundamentals of the craft such as Hunt's The Pragmatic Programmer and understand why the DRY Principal he mentions is considered a fundamental part of software engineering.

You can also Google it... But actually learning the concepts is far more important.


The point is that the search dialog uses entirely different code and calls form the run dialog, but it can still do the same thing. Sure they could use the old run dialog code to do stuff the search dialog can already do. OR they could more effectively just let the search dialog do all the stuff itself, more efficiently and without calling other code.

OR is your idea of effective coding to first check if the code is a call for a local executable (btw at this point, it can already execute it), then if it finds out it is, then it passes on the call to the run dialog...

seriously, THINK about it.

and if hands are already on the keyboard it's slower just to take your hands off the keyboard and put it on the mouse.

win+e then type. allt+tab then type, win+# then type.

normally the site I'm looking for is already open in one of my 30+ tabs though.

#352 +LogicalApex

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 20:39

The point is that the search dialog uses entirely different code and calls form the run dialog, but it can still do the same thing. Sure they could use the old run dialog code to do stuff the search dialog can already do. OR they could more effectively just let the search dialog do all the stuff itself, more efficiently and without calling other code.

OR is your idea of effective coding to first check if the code is a call for a local executable (btw at this point, it can already execute it), then if it finds out it is, then it passes on the call to the run dialog...

seriously, THINK about it.


win+e then type. allt+tab then type, win+# then type.

normally the site I'm looking for is already open in one of my 30+ tabs though.


No, my point is the RUN dialog and the Search function "run" capabilities share the same underpinnings. Otherwise, MS would be violating the DRY principal by having two separate pieces of code doing the same thing in two places. The RUN dialog and the "run" functionality in search are merely two separate windows into the same room.

#353 MorganX

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 20:46

It's far from even being a Windows-only (or even OS/distribution-only) dilemma - look at the earlier-in-this-thread comparison between Adobe Creativity Suite (CS) products and Microsoft Office products; even on OS X - which has far greater UI cohesiveness than even Windows pre-8; look at how the Adobe CS products behave within that UI compared to Microsoft Office products. Different approaches to the same problem. Heck - just look at the differences between Pagemaker and Word (again, on OS X, not Windows).


Don't necessarily disagree with your point or conclusion but comparing Adobe Graphic Design software to Office Products, and PageMaker (InDesign for some time now :) to Word, is like comparing apple's to oranges.

and if hands are already on the keyboard it's slower just to take your hands off the keyboard and put it on the mouse.

I don't know about that one. We're so well trained, even novice users can slide that right hand over and grab that mouse pretty darn quick.

#354 HawkMan

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 20:49

No, my point is the RUN dialog and the Search function "run" capabilities share the same underpinnings. Otherwise, MS would be violating the DRY principal by having two separate pieces of code doing the same thing in two places. The RUN dialog and the "run" functionality in search are merely two separate windows into the same room.


Except they don't, the search dialog by it's function has to do thing other ways than the run at an earlier stage, and at that stage it can already launch the app. so they don't share the same principles, not in any meaningful way that would make it any way sensible for them to share the same code.

#355 MorganX

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 20:54

it's not just the start screen. it's metro apps in general. The messaging map give you absolutely no option to turn it off. it's on perpetually and everytime someone sends me a message it give me no way to stop the annoying pop-up box on the desktop informing me I have a message. Trying to uninstall that particular app uninstalls 3 or 4 others including the calendar and mail, and people apps. This is a product that Microsoft should truly be sorry for. This is the 'batman and robin' of OS's. I get why they tried to do and I think that's cool. It was executed so horribly


I agree with you, Metro apps, particularly Microsoft's, are unfinished and IMO, and an embarrassment. The decision to bundle the core messaging apps was a choice.

I wouldn't write of Windows 8 though. Aside from the apps, and that is big, I only truly miss unified search and the ability to perform context actions on the result with the click of a mouse. You can still do that if you search with Explorer in the desktop environment. The Modern UI simply will not be able to duplicate that productivity.

Someone here used fast an efficient in the same sentence with Modern UI Search. I need some of whatever they're smoking.

#356 +LogicalApex

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 20:58

Except they don't, the search dialog by it's function has to do thing other ways than the run at an earlier stage, and at that stage it can already launch the app. so they don't share the same principles, not in any meaningful way that would make it any way sensible for them to share the same code.


I think you're completely missing what I'm saying here... The RUN dialog has to pass its "run" command to the OS to tell it to execute the application. The Start Screen "run functionality" has to do the exact same thing. Sure, it has to do searches and a variety of other tasks, but once it has decided it needs to do "run functionality" then it has to pass that off to the OS somehow. Unless you're implying that the Start Screen is executing that code itself independent of the OS it is running on?

The RUN dialog really isn't doing anything but calling whatever API endpoint MS has exposed for starting processes. I'm sure this is the same endpoint used by Explorer itself and all over the OS.

The dialog itself was not what I was referring to.

#357 HawkMan

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 21:17

I think you're completely missing what I'm saying here... The RUN dialog has to pass its "run" command to the OS to tell it to execute the application. The Start Screen "run functionality" has to do the exact same thing. Sure, it has to do searches and a variety of other tasks, but once it has decided it needs to do "run functionality" then it has to pass that off to the OS somehow. Unless you're implying that the Start Screen is executing that code itself independent of the OS it is running on?

The RUN dialog really isn't doing anything but calling whatever API endpoint MS has exposed for starting processes. I'm sure this is the same endpoint used by Explorer itself and all over the OS.

The dialog itself was not what I was referring to.


That's completely irrelevant of your original argument though, as that's the execution call, which is used not just by run, Search, but also shortcuts, other programs, start screen, ANYTHING that launches ANYTHING on the OS. and is not even part of the run dialog as such. just something it uses on the same line as search.

This was not your argument, you said the run dialog had to be kept and that search used the run dialog code. that is something completely different form using the execute call. The run dialog is far more than just the execute, call, which again isn't part of it, but rather part of the core OS.

#358 +LogicalApex

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 21:27

That's completely irrelevant of your original argument though, as that's the execution call, which is used not just by run, Search, but also shortcuts, other programs, start screen, ANYTHING that launches ANYTHING on the OS. and is not even part of the run dialog as such. just something it uses on the same line as search.

This was not your argument, you said the run dialog had to be kept and that search used the run dialog code. that is something completely different form using the execute call. The run dialog is far more than just the execute, call, which again isn't part of it, but rather part of the core OS.


This thread has been moving pretty quickly today so I'll forgive you for pulling my statements out of context.

I never said the run dialog had to be kept. I merely stated that it should be kept.

I later responded to a post from Dot Matrix that stated the run dialog should be removed because the code is redundant. My point was simply that the code doing the same task between the two isn't repeated and is most likely shared, as long as MS adhered to good engineering principals.

#359 scaramonga

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 22:48

It's a great read this thread :) One trying his best to outdo the other, neither getting anywhere, both arriving back at the same start position :woot:

Great for a giggle at the end of a hard day.

#360 +LogicalApex

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 22:53

It's a great read this thread :) One trying his best to outdo the other, neither getting anywhere, both arriving back at the same start position :woot:

Great for a giggle at the end of a hard day.


Very much agreed. I needed the distraction from work ;)