38 posts in this topic

Posted

There seems to be a deep polarization among us technical users about Windows 8. The only thing we can almost all agree on is that Windows 8 wasn't made for the enterprise and simply won't work there (for the majority). The general consensus among us has been that Microsoft will correct this with Windows 9 and this would have fallen in line with businesses typical upgrade cycle (they adopted XP, skipped Vista, adopted 7, and are expected to skip 8 to adopt 9). The email I got from the WSJ this morning eludes that MS may have killed Windows 9 for the enterprise before it even ships.

Microsoft seems to be in a very dangerous position here. They are running the risk of putting all of their eggs into the consumer basket and they really don't have any experience depending on them as their primary customer.

[quote]
Good morning. [b]Microsoft's[/b] pricing schemes could be the last straw for many CIOs. The newest twist to the company
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Posted

I'm bored and tired of these articles. It seems people generally having nothing better to do these days :/
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Posted

[quote name='StandingInAlley' timestamp='1354118826' post='595354912']
I'm bored and tired of these articles. It seems people generally having nothing better to do these days :/
[/quote]

What do you mean? I'm confused.

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Posted

Looking at the way the whole Win8 discussions here for example, I'm inclined to agree with you, I guess I'm in the win8 hater category, so I could be biased, but the 2nd and 3rd time I went back to my PC World, to be demonstrated Win8 I found myself more impatient with the OS :(
(the only thing I took away from the whole experience was 'guess it's not for me then')
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Posted

/Facepalm

I'm glad I can't see the original post for this thread...the thread title was enough for me to figure out it's a hit piece without merit. :(
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Posted

Interesting read but I'm not sure they'll be consigned to the "recycle bin of history"; their board of directors would probably remove Steve Ballmer before that happens. I think most businesses will bypass Windows 8 and stick with Win7 since it is satisfactory for their needs (the same will be true for many home users I'm sure).

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Posted

[quote name='deinabog' timestamp='1354119292' post='595354938']
Interesting read but I'm not sure they'll be consigned to the "recycle bin of history"; their board of directors would probably remove Steve Ballmer before that happens. I think most businesses will bypass Windows 8 and stick with Win7 since it is satisfactory for their needs (the same will be true for many home users I'm sure).
[/quote]

A lot of businesses would have to upgrade to Win7 first in order to stick with it. ;)

I love Windows 7...but a ton of companies have yet to still upgrade due to how most enterprise upgrade cycles work. Odds are the rest will start rolling out 7 soon enough...and 8 will start seeing heavier deployment within the next 24-months. That's typically how the cycles work.
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Posted

So they would be in effect stacking the user/device CALs now?

Was just speaking to that consumer gambit in another thread. I think there is certainly some merit there. One other constant I've noted is that MS seems content to alienate professionals/decision makers to make that consumer push. The perceived greed of this push to consumerization is what I find the most appalling. Its making long time MS proponents start re-evaluating if this is the horse we want to be hitched to if it goes off the rails.
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Posted

[quote]Fraser told CIO Journal that attempts by software vendors to trap customers with enterprise license agreements is part of what
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Posted

[quote name='StandingInAlley' timestamp='1354118826' post='595354912']
I'm bored and tired of these articles. It seems people generally having nothing better to do these days :/
[/quote]

Seriously dude you should go and get the job of CIO at [b]Moller Maersk [/b]and show the idiots there how it's done man! Especially the idiot at the top!

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Posted

[quote name='LogicalApex' timestamp='1354118629' post='595354902']
There seems to be a deep polarization among us technical users about Windows 8. The only thing we can almost all agree on is that Windows 8 wasn't made for the enterprise and simply won't work there (for the majority). The general consensus among us has been that Microsoft will correct this with Windows 9 and this would have fallen in line with businesses typical upgrade cycle (they adopted XP, skipped Vista, adopted 7, and are expected to skip 8 to adopt 9). The email I got from the WSJ this morning eludes that MS may have killed Windows 9 for the enterprise before it even ships.

Microsoft seems to be in a very dangerous position here. They are running the risk of putting all of their eggs into the consumer basket and they really don't have any experience depending on them as their primary customer.


Source: The Wall Street Journal - Morning CIO EMail

The crux of the problem is Microsoft is moving from charging companies per device for their licenses and are moving to charging them per user. Meaning they will have to pay more for devices shared by many employees and can end up paying multiple times for the same license (such as paying for Windows Phone in the phone purchase then again when an employee uses it). Microsoft seems to be trying to "tax" companies on all of their employees no matter how casual their computer use.
[/quote]
Uh...jumping the gun are we? Combine this with the free OS updates FPN - and it kind of makes sense?

I would guess that there are similar reactions with every licensing change (remember Vmware with their ESX5 mess?) and Microsoft can quickly backtrack if things don't work out. People are really desperate to paint a doom and gloom for Microsoft, it's getting ridiculous.
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Posted

[quote name='Shane Nokes' timestamp='1354119110' post='595354926']
/Facepalm

I'm glad I can't see the original post for this thread...the thread title was enough for me to figure out it's a hit piece without merit. :(
[/quote]

:huh: How does per user pricing not have merit?

Or is this being interpreted as another Anti-Windows 8 thread. As it isn't one...

[quote name='BajiRav' timestamp='1354120068' post='595354972']
Uh...jumping the gun are we? Combine this with the free OS updates FPN - and it kind of makes sense?

I would guess that there are similar reactions with every licensing change (remember Vmware with their ESX5 mess?) and Microsoft can quickly backtrack if things don't work out. People are really desperate to paint a doom and gloom for Microsoft, it's getting ridiculous.
[/quote]

For large enterprises this update story is nothing new. They have had "free upgrades" since 2006 (so Windows XP era) via [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Software_Assurance"]Software Assurance[/url] licensing.

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Posted

[quote]
The only thing we can almost all agree on is that Windows 8 wasn't made for the enterprise and simply won't work there (for the majority)
[/quote]

Oh how silly that statement is going to look in 5 years time.

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Posted

[quote name='nik louch' timestamp='1354121612' post='595355046']
Oh how silly that statement is going to look in 5 years time.
[/quote]

Why would it? In 5 years we would have Windows 10. I'd imagine things added in Windows 8 would be carried into 9 and 10, but there would be refinements made.

It would be similar to how almost every techie agrees that Windows XP SP0 was crap and MS bucking their historical stance and adding features in XP SP2 made it into a very long lasting and well regarded OS. Opinions on 8 are varied, but it is hard to argue that whatever MS intended to accomplish the OS [i]right now[/i] is incomplete.

That being said, this thread really is about the new licensing structure that threatens their enterprise business more so than Windows 8 directly.

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Posted

[quote]
In 5 years we would have Windows 10
[/quote]
Um, not anywhere near that timescale!

[quote]almost every techie agrees that Windows XP SP0[/quote]
I don't. I feel that the driver support was terrible, and SP1 then SP2 REALLY made things a lot better. But SP0 was just fine for what it was - a line in the sand and a new OS.

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Posted

[quote name='LogicalApex' timestamp='1354120845' post='595355016']
:huh: How does per user pricing not have merit?

Or is this being interpreted as another Anti-Windows 8 thread. As it isn't one...



For large enterprises this update story is nothing new. They have had "free upgrades" since 2006 (so Windows XP era) via [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Software_Assurance"]Software Assurance[/url] licensing.
[/quote]
true and I am no expert in enterprise licensing but haven't they been paying twice already for Windows (once for OS and then CALs or whatever they are called) - how is this new?

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Posted

[quote name='Shane Nokes' timestamp='1354119392' post='595354946']
A lot of businesses would have to upgrade to Win7 first in order to stick with it. ;)

I love Windows 7...but a ton of companies have yet to still upgrade due to how most enterprise upgrade cycles work. Odds are the rest will start rolling out 7 soon enough...and 8 will start seeing heavier deployment within the next 24-months. That's typically how the cycles work.
[/quote]

True indeed. We just upgraded all of the workstations in the division where I work to Window 7 after running a mixed environment of Win7 and WinXP for a few years (we also did it because we moved to Active Directory at the same time and didn't want to migrate any XP workstation).

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Posted

[quote name='nik louch' timestamp='1354122227' post='595355066']
Um, not anywhere near that timescale!


I don't. I feel that the driver support was terrible, and SP1 then SP2 REALLY made things a lot better. But SP0 was just fine for what it was - a line in the sand and a new OS.
[/quote]

Why is the timescale off? Microsoft releases Windows versions every two years (Vista was a lone exception) and there is talk of them pushing that cycle down to once a year. If you take 5 years and look at how many 2 year cycles you have you'll get 2. If you take 8 and add 2 to it then you get 10. That makes an estimation of Windows 10 in 5 years pretty normal...

[quote name='BajiRav' timestamp='1354122432' post='595355078']
true and I am no expert in enterprise licensing but haven't they been paying twice already for Windows (once for OS and then CALs or whatever they are called) - how is this new?
[/quote]

CALs are limited to server licenses from what I understand. So they paid for the server OS then a license for each user to access certain features of it (certain base features were included depending on the product). They weren't required to essentially have CAL on the client side of the equation.

CAL = Client Access License, client was used to represent a separately licensed client OS.

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Posted

[quote name='BajiRav' timestamp='1354122432' post='595355078']
true and I am no expert in enterprise licensing but haven't they been paying twice already for Windows (once for OS and then CALs or whatever they are called) - how is this new?
[/quote]

I couldn't read the full article but it sounds like the main new issue (beyond the 15% rate hike) is that they are now calling for device AND user CALs instead of device OR user CALs.

Before in a typical scenario you'd pay for licenses for the following and you'd choose if you want user or device CALs (depending on which is 'lower' in your environment':

OS, Exchange, SQL, Sharepoint, Office, etc

Now it sounds like you'll need a device and a user CAL per product, significantly increasing the cost of self-hosted services. Instead of a single Exchange user CAL that can be used by the employee on their desktop/laptop/phone/tablet it appears they would now have to buy five(!) licences for the same scenario.

Sounds like a way to make cloud pricing look more attractive (per the prior post) to those wayward CIOs.

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Posted

Ehh.. we'll see what happens.

As for Windows 8, I have mixed feelings about it. They really improved the startup process, the new task manager is nice, and the UI for the most part is pretty decent. I don't miss the start menu one bit, but it is definitely still quirky to access the power options.

I also really haven't found any particular use for the Metro apps.. they occupy the full screen (which is too much space on a 1080p 23" monitor), or a mini-side bar (which is too little :\ ). I'm in the desktop environment 99% of the time, and the only time I see Metro is at boot, or when I hit the windows key and start typing to search for a program that isn't pinned to my taskbar.

Hoping the next service pack/"Blue"/whatever is an improvement. I'm sure Metro is here to stay, I'm just hoping they re-work the Charms bar or maybe even integrate it with the taskbar. It bugs me often since I dock my taskbar to the right, and sometimes when I'm accessing my top-right pinned program it triggers the Charms bar
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Posted

Why is a CIO asking why they'd need Microsoft. I'd presume the answer would be because all of their damned software runs on it, including any proprietary software written for their company. Typically it'd be more costly to start again from scratch with alternatives.

I wish I could get a job as an analyst and just spout nonsense regularly
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Posted

Way to get the fanbois' panties all in a bunch.... :woot: :laugh: :woot:

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Posted

[quote name='Rickkins' timestamp='1354370449' post='595361666']
Way to get the fanbois' panties all in a bunch.... :woot: :laugh: :woot:
[/quote]


Ha ha, so true! Some people here absolutely amaze me, anything said against "their" precious Microsoft is taken as a personal affront and then go off like it's going to affect their actual lives! Guess what, MS does not know you or actually give a hoot.

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Posted

Yawn!

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Posted

[quote name='deinabog' timestamp='1354119292' post='595354938']
Interesting read but I'm not sure they'll be consigned to the "recycle bin of history"; their board of directors would probably remove Steve Ballmer before that happens. I think most businesses will bypass Windows 8 and stick with Win7 since it is satisfactory for their needs (the same will be true for many home users I'm sure).
[/quote]

The thing is, computers are too reliable these days. Most people never upgrade their computers until something happens to them. They just get a new OS when they do finally upgrade their computers. I know people who have been running their computer for years with zero problems. Heck, at work we have 10+ year old computers running XP just fine.

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