93 replies to this topic

[Hum]

LITTLE FALLS, MINN. - Insisting the case crosses the line from self-defense to a cold-blooded double execution, Morrison County authorities filed second-degree murder charges Monday against a 64-year-old man who killed two teenage cousins after they'd broken into his home on Thanksgiving.

This woodsy central Minnesota town of 8,000 was jolted as the gruesome details spilled out in a criminal complaint, alleging Byron David Smith put a handgun under the chin of wounded and gasping 18-year-old Haile Kifer for what he told police was a "good clean finishing shot."

Smith, who according to a friend and a relative had endured previous break-ins, sat shackled in an orange jail jumpsuit as County Attorney Brian Middendorf accused him of "cold-blooded murder of two teenagers under circumstances that are appalling and far beyond any self-defense claim."

Sheriff Michel Wetzel said Monday that he believes the teenagers were committing a burglary but said Smith's reaction went beyond legal protections of Minnesota law that allows crime victims to use reasonable force to protect themselves and their property during a felony.

source

[rippleman]

Hum, on 30 November 2012 - 15:52, said:

put a handgun under the chin of wounded and gasping 18-year-old Haile Kifer for what he told police was a "good clean finishing shot."

this self confessed part (if accurate) shows that this is beyond self defense and protection

I am for shooting in self defense, but after that its just murder.

[xendrome]

While the kids deserved what they got, since they put themselves in this situation... this guy basically executed them, so he'll be going away for quite some time for 2 counts of homicide...

[Dane]

He shouldn't have went that far.

However for the two:

Play stupid games, Win stupid prizes.

[+Fus10n]

rippleman, on 30 November 2012 - 16:02, said:

this self confessed part (if accurate) shows that this is beyond self defense and protection

I am for shooting in self defense, but after that its just murder.

I have to agree here.. This guy went to far.. if someone was in my house and I felt threaten and shot them to a point they couldn't walk or no longer a threat, I would just call the cops and let them pick them up..

[margrave]

From the confession of "good clean finishing shot." he's admitting to nothing short of just an execution.

[+devHead]

Quote

Smith told police he armed himself with a rifle and a handgun and waited downstairs until he saw the first person's feet, then legs, then hips.
He said he fired and the first victim, Brady, tumbled down the stairs. While Brady looked up at him, he shot him in the face, according to the complaint.

If he knew people had broken into his house, why didn't he call the police first, or at least threaten the teens that he'll shoot if they didn't get out? Why would you hide in wait, especially if you didn't know whether the kids were armed? It just seems like the two teenagers got the full brunt of his frustration of having his place broken into and paid for it with their lives. But to shoot them afterwards even more, that's just sick and demented. Is it really self-defense if the other party doesn't have any weapons and you just shoot them? To me, self-defense is when you feel you're physically threatened with violence, and so you have to retaliate. He didn't do this; it's like he just decided the next two people who broke into his house were going to be executed. What a psychotic nut.

[Pinebender]

If you break into someone's house you should not be surprized if you are getting shot. This was perhaps taken a little too far but if your house had been broken into before and you are already on edge, you might do some crazy things too. You never know where someone's state of mind is.

[jon.01]

Well maybe they shouldn't have broken into his house in the first place. They deserved it.

[jwjw1]

here's the photo of the two slain cousins....



http://www.startribu...91.html?refer=y

LITTLE FALLS, MINN. - The two teenage cousins shot to death during a home burglary on Thanksgiving were no strangers to police, who confirmed Wednesday that the pair had committed an earlier burglary and that officers are looking into the possibility of them being linked to more in the area.

[jerzdawg]

certainly no sympathy to the criminals here, but an execution style "finish" is certainly overkill. I am guessing his only defense would be him not knowing if they were armed? I'm sure the smiling pictures of the criminals wont help this guys case for self defense...

[+littleneutrino]

I can understand protecting your stuff with force, however, killing in any fashion is going to far. (unless of course you shot them in the leg or arm and they died of complications or something however, intentionally killing them is going too far.

[thejohnnyq]

The teens were believed to be involved in a robbery in October were over $10k worth of guns were stolen, and they targeted this guy? There is more going one here, and kids family is delusional that the kids had more to offer, this guy defense is set, they targeted him, after he shot the second one the gun jamed and she laughed at him, they "bullied" him and he struck back.

[thechronic]

The two deserved some pain for breaking into an old mans house, totally out of order but once they were incapacitated it didn't require anything else.

[Dane]

littleneutrino, on 30 November 2012 - 16:47, said:

I can understand protecting your stuff with force, however, killing in any fashion is going to far. (unless of course you shot them in the leg or arm and they died of complications or something however, intentionally killing them is going too far.

It is INCREDIBLY hard to shoot at an arm or a leg. Even more so if they are moving. You shoot the biggest part of the target, which turns out to the Center Of Mass. Just because you shoot someone in an arm or a leg, doesn't mean the threat is stopped.

devHead, on 30 November 2012 - 16:29, said:

If he knew people had broken into his house, why didn't he call the police first, or at least threaten the teens that he'll shoot if they didn't get out? Why would you hide in wait, especially if you didn't know whether the kids were armed? It just seems like the two teenagers got the full brunt of his frustration of having his place broken into and paid for it with their lives. But to shoot them afterwards even more, that's just sick and demented. Is it really self-defense if the other party doesn't have any weapons and you just shoot them? To me, self-defense is when you feel you're physically threatened with violence, and so you have to retaliate. He didn't do this; it's like he just decided the next two people who broke into his house were going to be executed. What a psychotic nut.

To be fair maybe he did call the police first. If you check out online, even in bigger cities. There are 911 calls where it took the police 10+ Mins to even get there. One 911 call, a womans husband and daughter were shot and killed, it took Phoenix PD 18 MINS TO MAKE ENTRY.

I know alot of people wouldn't "Hide and wait". I would wait until they get close. I would not announce myself and give away my position. Once I could tell if they had a weapon capable of during seriously bodily harm, or death. Then that's it.

How about...Don't break in and expect to come out?