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Windows 8: A ‘Christmas gift for someone you hate’


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#46 Shane Nokes

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 13:24

I'm 27 so that's a stereotype you fail on. A fair few of the other people that volunteer in the centre I work in are under 30 as well, and pretty much nobody I talk to likes Windows 8.


At 27 you're not a kid any more...so you fail at pointing out that his 'stereotype' about kids is wrong...

Keyword being evaluate. That takes time. And you must accept that upon evaluation, many will find Windows 8 is not for them. There is no IT department whose primary platform is Microsoft Server Technologies and complimentary solutions that is not evaluating Windows 8.



I wouldn't do that to you Shane, our exchange here began with you defending and supporting what I feel was a ridiculous post about IT and IT professionals that aren't just jumping on the Windows 8 bandwagon. I'm sure I just attached your defense of that position to those statements and responded to them as a whole. Putting words in your mouth was not my intent.


I was more supporting the position that in many cases IT personnel have become lazy. Every single time a huge change happens in Windows there is grumbling, and it's usually loudest from the IT folks.

The last 6 years have been especially filled with it. XP let them get a little too complacent due to how long it has lasted.

I don't think anyone should just jump on a bandwagon with something that is unproven. I do however thing IT folks have become more close-minded and less open towards testing/evaluating new things.

It reminds me of a lyric from Linkin Park:

'Cause even the blueprint is a gift and a curse
'Cause once you have the theory of how the thing works
Everybody wants the next thing to be just like the first




#47 Dot Matrix

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 13:47

Good God, so I just realized this is a "MIT professor" who wrote this. For a person of "professor" status, this article is atrocious, and missing the expected research I would think he would have done before writing it.

How is it I can use Windows 8 and this "professor" can't? Sorry, we don't use command lines or terminal systems anymore, bud. Time to wake up, it's 2013 now.

I'm 27 so that's a stereotype you fail on. A fair few of the other people that volunteer in the centre I work in are under 30 as well, and pretty much nobody I talk to likes Windows 8.


At 27, you're not a kid anymore, are you? (I would hope not). I have a cousin who is 13. I watched over thanksgiving as she troubleshooted her laptop. She knew what was going on, which I found impressive. I also see fellow peers and students who can do the same.

#48 MorganX

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 14:45

The last 6 years have been especially filled with it. XP let them get a little too complacent due to how long it has lasted.


We'll have to agree to disagree on the laziness of IT.

XP actually does not support your case for someone that has IT experience during the XP days. Enormous amounts of work and resources were put into making XP a secure stable enterprise desktop. Those investments are hard to part with once a user base has been trained and is productive. There is a bottom line. That doesn't even begin to account for all of the applications that simply could not just migrate to Vista, or even Windows 7. XP Mode is available in Windows 7 for a reason.

I can only say, that you and Dot have been in organizations with top notch IT departments if you have been able to exist peacefully oblivious to these mundane realities of Information Technology. In fact, it is the job of Information Technology to keep it that way, because only "they" get paid to deal with that sort of thing while keeping it transparent and unobtrusive to the business communities that IT enables.

#49 Shane Nokes

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 15:59

We'll have to agree to disagree on the laziness of IT.

XP actually does not support your case for someone that has IT experience during the XP days. Enormous amounts of work and resources were put into making XP a secure stable enterprise desktop. Those investments are hard to part with once a user base has been trained and is productive. There is a bottom line. That doesn't even begin to account for all of the applications that simply could not just migrate to Vista, or even Windows 7. XP Mode is available in Windows 7 for a reason.

I can only say, that you and Dot have been in organizations with top notch IT departments if you have been able to exist peacefully oblivious to these mundane realities of Information Technology. In fact, it is the job of Information Technology to keep it that way, because only "they" get paid to deal with that sort of thing while keeping it transparent and unobtrusive to the business communities that IT enables.


Luckily my last few years have been spent contracting/consulting at MS. So they do have top-notch IT, that keeps things up-to-date with the latest. They sort of have an advantage though since it is their OS that they are supporting on the machines. ;)

To call me oblivious however is an insult. I've worked IT, I've worked engineering, I've worked support, I've worked dev, I've worked QA, I've worked BI.

I know most business roles inside and out...I'm as far from oblivious on most major business roles as anyone you will likely meet.

I just am not afraid to call it like it is and not care if someone gets angry at me for pointing it out. It's part of why I've never really tried for an FTE role there. I don't play office politics, and that suits me just fine. ;)

#50 xWhiplash

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 17:16

Good God, so I just realized this is a "MIT professor" who wrote this. For a person of "professor" status, this article is atrocious, and missing the expected research I would think he would have done before writing it.

How is it I can use Windows 8 and this "professor" can't? Sorry, we don't use command lines or terminal systems anymore, bud. Time to wake up, it's 2013 now.



At 27, you're not a kid anymore, are you? (I would hope not). I have a cousin who is 13. I watched over thanksgiving as she troubleshooted her laptop. She knew what was going on, which I found impressive. I also see fellow peers and students who can do the same.


Sigh...Why is it that you are comparing the changes to Windows 8 with the changes of moving on from command line?

Could it be....possibly....somehow.....that he uses the computer in a different way than you? My god all of this "I can use Windows 8 just fine so you must suck at computers or are just too lazy". As I have mentioned, when I use Windows 8 in a productive way, the Charms bar and App switcher keep getting in my way. My clients keep activating them as well, which makes it very embarrassing when you then ask them for money for your work. You look unprofessional when there are these hidden menus appear constantly.

Do you expect me to teach my photoshop/after effects clients how Windows 8 works before I work on their projects? No. It is my responsibility as the person that is hired to do the work, to appear professional at all times.

So without Start8, I HATE Windows 8 as a productive environment. Everything else is fine, but that is the truth you guys seem to not realize. People use computers differently.

A simple option to disable these menus would have made the OS better for most. It is not because we are scared/lazy/stuck in the past/whatever, it is when things start interfering with your workflow. Why can't you guys see that?

#51 MorganX

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 17:41

To call me oblivious however is an insult. I've worked IT, I've worked engineering, I've worked support, I've worked dev, I've worked QA, I've worked BI.


hahaha, not oblivious in general, or I wouldn't be conversing with you online or otherwise. Oblivious as to why XP remained in enterprise environments for so long. Definitely not laziness as you suggested ...

Edit: BTW, Microsoft, rightly, eats its own dog food, whether they like it or not so ... :) But having said that, while we go back and forth about the Desktop OS, there is not doubt, Server 2k12 is a fine product that WILL have a dramatic positive change on productivity and bottom lines.

#52 +warwagon

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 17:56

On Windows 8 what is the fastest way to get to the users profile directory the one that has contact, favorites documents and pictures?

#53 MorganX

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 18:40

On Windows 8 what is the fastest way to get to the users profile directory the one that has contact, favorites documents and pictures?


Win+E. In the address bar, click the first tab on the cookie crumb, and select the user folder.

#54 threetonesun

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 18:50

hahaha, not oblivious in general, or I wouldn't be conversing with you online or otherwise. Oblivious as to why XP remained in enterprise environments for so long. Definitely not laziness as you suggested ...


No, it was that whole global recession thing going on.

#55 +warwagon

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 18:50

Win+E. In the address bar, click the first tab on the cookie crumb, and select the user folder.


ya, that's just one example where Windows 8 take more clicks than windows 7.

Windows 7 / Click start (or windows key) then click the profile name at the top right.

#56 MorganX

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 19:03

No, it was that whole global recession thing going on.


and we shouldn't forget about Vista ...

#57 MorganX

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 19:19

ya, that's just one example where Windows 8 take more clicks than windows 7.

Windows 7 / Click start (or windows key) then click the profile name at the top right.


Hehehe, I'm gonna call that one a draw. But I do agree there are several areas where Windows 8 takes more clicks or drags or is just more cumbersome than windows 7. I don't think that in and of itself is a reason to avoid it, unless you work heavily with Search and those results using context menus.

My preference would be faster fixes and updates to 8, not to stay with 7. I do think for this hybrid period and GPO setting to avoid the Start Page would have been great! My biggest complaint is the incompleteness of the apps and interoperability of Surface, Phone, and Desktop or lack thereof. I also question whether the Modern UI can every duplicate the full functionality of the Explorer UI. The pitiful media management situation is also a reason I would advise consumers avoid it until that is fixed. The bugs and such which will be fixed over time just make it inadvisable to deploy enterprise-wide IMO. Just the monitor sleep bug, that may very well be drivers and only affects a small percentage of users, is too expensive to risk. Some legacy apps do something to the registry that can prevent hyperlinks from working in all Modern apps and this one has no response from Microsoft as of yet. In a VDI environment, maybe. Physical desktops, nah, not a chance.

There's a reason in many organization there has been a de facto policy not to deploy and OS enterprise-wide until a Service Pack has been released. Well, there are no more service packs ... lol.

The stakes are very high for Microsoft, they can't actually admit to any major shortcomings right now. That would go a loooong way toward building confidence ... but even I would not advise that type of admission right now and that's unfortunate. The stakes are so high I just can't understand the lack of polish across the Windows 8/RT/WP8 spectrum. I would however, be working round the clock to release patches, fixes, and app updates with a sense of urgency. But that's just me.

#58 fixxxer2014

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 19:26

i still believe w8 will be deemed a failure.

#59 ZakO

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 19:28

ya, that's just one example where Windows 8 take more clicks than windows 7.

Windows 7 / Click start (or windows key) then click the profile name at the top right.

If that's a task you perform often why don't you just pin the folder to the start screen? Then it'll be the same, Windows Key + Click folder icon. Alternatively add the folder to your explorer favourites sidebar and again it will be two clicks (Win + E, Click favourite item). Both as simple as Windows 7, it'll just take a few times to adjust to the new way.

#60 threetonesun

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 19:59

and we shouldn't forget about Vista ...


No, we probably should. :laugh:

XP was the point at which a lot of corporations started pushing back against MSs "upgrade Windows upgrade Office upgrade your servers" every release idea, with good reason. That said, I think 7 would have been picked up faster were it not for the recession. Heck, I'm sitting at an XP box at work right now.