116 replies to this topic 11 votes

[nik louch]

****ty articles always seem to try and prove their worth by quoting a companies stock symbol

[MorganX]

ahhell, on 06 December 2012 - 18:49, said:

"Suppose that you are an expert user of Windows NT/XP/Vista/7, an expert user of an iPad, and an expert user of an Android phone… you will have no idea how to use Windows"

How ****ing clueless are people? Good god.

I don't think the issues he raises means he's clueless. I consider myself quite capable and it took me a day and a half to accidentally figure out how to make the app switch bar stick on my Surface. Swipe from the left just switched to the previous app. It also took a minute to figure out how to close an app from the app bar, drag down. As well as how to drag and move live tiles easily [drag down slightly and hold for a sec, then drag is smooth].

I don't consider myself clueless, but exposing the app bar was not something many will figure out easily. So in that respect I agree with him, though once I figured out how to use it, it's quite nice. These things are subjective, I don't have a problem with the power settings on the charm bar on the Surface or desktop. I think it's kind of cool though actually making the selection isn't really touch friendly, you're not always sure you've touched the right selection because it's just a line of text with no visual clue.

Definitely not as intuitive as say an iPad. Can he figure it out, I'm sure. But he's evaluating it from the perspective of millions of non-technical consumers and on much of it he's right.

Microsoft is no shrinking violet, they can handle the constructive criticism and being an 800lb Gorilla, could use it here and there.

[Kyang]

warwagon, on 07 December 2012 - 17:56, said:

On Windows 8 what is the fastest way to get to the users profile directory the one that has contact, favorites documents and pictures?

MorganX, on 07 December 2012 - 18:40, said:

Win+E. In the address bar, click the first tab on the cookie crumb, and select the user folder.

warwagon, on 07 December 2012 - 18:50, said:

ya, that's just one example where Windows 8 take more clicks than windows 7.

Windows 7 / Click start (or windows key) then click the profile name at the top right.

MorganX, on 07 December 2012 - 19:19, said:

Hehehe, I'm gonna call that one a draw. But I do agree there are several areas where Windows 8 takes more clicks or drags or is just more cumbersome than windows 7. I don't think that in and of itself is a reason to avoid it, unless you work heavily with Search and those results using context menus.

My preference would be faster fixes and updates to 8, not to stay with 7. I do think for this hybrid period and GPO setting to avoid the Start Page would have been great! My biggest complaint is the incompleteness of the apps and interoperability of Surface, Phone, and Desktop or lack thereof. I also question whether the Modern UI can every duplicate the full functionality of the Explorer UI. The pitiful media management situation is also a reason I would advise consumers avoid it until that is fixed. The bugs and such which will be fixed over time just make it inadvisable to deploy enterprise-wide IMO. Just the monitor sleep bug, that may very well be drivers and only affects a small percentage of users, is too expensive to risk. Some legacy apps do something to the registry that can prevent hyperlinks from working in all Modern apps and this one has no response from Microsoft as of yet. In a VDI environment, maybe. Physical desktops, nah, not a chance.

There's a reason in many organization there has been a de facto policy not to deploy and OS enterprise-wide until a Service Pack has been released. Well, there are no more service packs ... lol.

The stakes are very high for Microsoft, they can't actually admit to any major shortcomings right now. That would go a loooong way toward building confidence ... but even I would not advise that type of admission right now and that's unfortunate. The stakes are so high I just can't understand the lack of polish across the Windows 8/RT/WP8 spectrum. I would however, be working round the clock to release patches, fixes, and app updates with a sense of urgency. But that's just me.

Wouldn't the right click "power" menu in Win8 balance that out a bit? There's 2 click access to things there that used to take more clicks in Win7 right?

[*RedBull*]

I think the MIT prof is an idiot. Windows 8 pro is way better than windows 7. The claims he makes seem like he had not used it much then wrote a review. With wintutu you get to use either start menu or start screen.

[Mr Nom Nom's]

xWhiplash, on 07 December 2012 - 17:16, said:

Sigh...Why is it that you are comparing the changes to Windows 8 with the changes of moving on from command line?

Could it be....possibly....somehow.....that he uses the computer in a different way than you? My god all of this "I can use Windows 8 just fine so you must suck at computers or are just too lazy". As I have mentioned, when I use Windows 8 in a productive way, the Charms bar and App switcher keep getting in my way. My clients keep activating them as well, which makes it very embarrassing when you then ask them for money for your work. You look unprofessional when there are these hidden menus appear constantly.

Do you expect me to teach my photoshop/after effects clients how Windows 8 works before I work on their projects? No. It is my responsibility as the person that is hired to do the work, to appear professional at all times.

So without Start8, I HATE Windows 8 as a productive environment. Everything else is fine, but that is the truth you guys seem to not realize. People use computers differently.

A simple option to disable these menus would have made the OS better for most. It is not because we are scared/lazy/stuck in the past/whatever, it is when things start interfering with your workflow. Why can't you guys see that?

1) If 'charms' and 'app switcher' keep getting in the way then I have to ask what the hell are you doing - the only way either one of those will appear is if you put the cursor right in the corner of the screen - why the hell are you putting the cursor all the way up there?

2) Put the cursor on the bottom left hand corner, click and then click on a pinned application that is present on the start screen. It is Microsoft's fault that you can't be bothered teaching employees about pinning applications? heck, why not ignore the start page altogether and just pin the most common applications to the taskbar?

3) It has nothing to do with using computers differently and everything to do with people using computers inefficiently. Don't try to pull a fast one by claiming that your inefficient way of doing things translates into you being a precious and unique snow flake thus your individuality must be respected.

4) Nothing interferes with the work flow - if you can't keep your cursor from the corners of the screen then it is clear that you're the with the problem and not Microsoft, Windows 8 or the Windows 8 development team.

[xWhiplash]

Mr Nom Nom's, on 09 December 2012 - 14:05, said:

1) If 'charms' and 'app switcher' keep getting in the way then I have to ask what the hell are you doing - the only way either one of those will appear is if you put the cursor right in the corner of the screen - why the hell are you putting the cursor all the way up there?

2) Put the cursor on the bottom left hand corner, click and then click on a pinned application that is present on the start screen. It is Microsoft's fault that you can't be bothered teaching employees about pinning applications? heck, why not ignore the start page altogether and just pin the most common applications to the taskbar?

3) It has nothing to do with using computers differently and everything to do with people using computers inefficiently. Don't try to pull a fast one by claiming that your inefficient way of doing things translates into you being a precious and unique snow flake thus your individuality must be respected.

4) Nothing interferes with the work flow - if you can't keep your cursor from the corners of the screen then it is clear that you're the with the problem and not Microsoft, Windows 8 or the Windows 8 development team.

Really? Where are the close buttons? Where is the Chrome Back button?

Geez, I am so sick of the "activating these bars? You are horrible at using computers. Microsoft is so AWESOME that they cannot do ANYTHING wrong. You obviously cannot use computers so it is your fault, not microsofts".

I have said it before. I detach dialogs from Photoshop and other adobe programs, so yes my mouse goes where the hot corners are. THAT is my workflow.

[Mr Nom Nom's]

xWhiplash, on 09 December 2012 - 21:38, said:

Really? Where are the close buttons? Where is the Chrome Back button?

Are you using a Metro application or a win32 one? either talk about one or the other - don't interpolate the two issues. As for closing a Metro application you go to the left with your cursor, swipe down, switch off the application you're using and then close off the application you no longer wish to use. As for Chrome - how is it Microsoft's fault that Google hacked together Chrome in such a way?

Quote

Geez, I am so sick of the "activating these bars? You are horrible at using computers. Microsoft is so AWESOME that they cannot do ANYTHING wrong. You obviously cannot use computers so it is your fault, not microsofts".

You're the one who can't seem to use a computer without constantly putting your cursor on a hot corner.

Quote

I have said it before. I detach dialogs from Photoshop and other adobe programs, so yes my mouse goes where the hot corners are. THAT is my workflow.

Then don't maximise the window to cover the whole screen and for Christ sake don't put the floating boxes in the corner of the bloody screen. I mean, come on - I swear you're just deliberately doing things so then you feel cheesed off and then it justifies why you hate Windows 8.

[warwagon]

Windows 8 defiantly feels like the mouse and keyboard was an after thought.

[Dot Matrix]

warwagon, on 11 December 2012 - 05:25, said:

Windows 8 defiantly feels like the mouse and keyboard was an after thought.

How? All the classic keyboard shortcuts still work, and the mouse works just as it did in Windows 7...

[humanz.]

I regret spending $15 for the Win8 upgrade.

There are some stuff I like about it but Metro really pushes me back to re-evaluate my multi-tasking.

[xWhiplash]

Mr Nom Nom's, on 11 December 2012 - 05:17, said:

Are you using a Metro application or a win32 one? either talk about one or the other - don't interpolate the two issues. As for closing a Metro application you go to the left with your cursor, swipe down, switch off the application you're using and then close off the application you no longer wish to use. As for Chrome - how is it Microsoft's fault that Google hacked together Chrome in such a way?



You're the one who can't seem to use a computer without constantly putting your cursor on a hot corner.



Then don't maximise the window to cover the whole screen and for Christ sake don't put the floating boxes in the corner of the bloody screen. I mean, come on - I swear you're just deliberately doing things so then you feel cheesed off and then it justifies why you hate Windows 8.

Right so NOTHING AT ALL is Microsoft's fault? Where am I talking about the metro applications, I did not say anything about metro applications? They do not have a close button, as Chrome still has a desktop application, or I must be using something weird right not. The Chrome desktop version has the back button where the app switcher hot corner is close to ON THE DESKTOP. The close button ON DESKTOP APPLICATIONS is right by the hot corner for the charms bar. Geez I do not know how I accidentally activate these hot corners when the tools and buttons are right next to them. Hmmmm.

Right I am sorry for wanting to disable hot corners when I am in the desktop environment. I guess we all need to be zombies and accept whatever Microsoft does.

So you are saying programmers need to now not allow you to maximize applications or it is the programmers fault?

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You're the one who can't seem to use a computer without constantly putting your cursor on a hot corner.

There it is again. "Do not like Windows 8 or have ANY ISSUES with it? You cannot use computers then". What is with the attitude on this board? I have been using computers longer than some on this board (there are some that are older than me), but the point is, I have been using computers since Windows 3.1.

I like Windows 8 just fine, but I cannot voice my opinion about something that irritates me without comments like "You can't use computers"? It is not that damn hard to accidentally activate the hot corners. Everybody I know that has tried Windows 8 says the same thing. Oh...."They can't use computers too" right? Yeah their degree and years of experience in the work place when they can;t use computers must be awesome.

Quote

Then don't maximise the window to cover the whole screen and for Christ sake don't put the floating boxes in the corner of the bloody screen. I mean, come on - I swear you're just deliberately doing things so then you feel cheesed off and then it justifies why you hate Windows 8.

So you want me to sacrifice my screen estate instead of wishing there was an option to disable it? What is the damn point of the ability to maximize windows if we obviously am not allowed to anymore? Hmm....I have use Photoshop maximized and floating boxes the way I wanted to since Windows XP and I believe Photoshop CS 1 which had that feature. I built my own workflow.

NOT ONCE did I say I hated Windows 8....geez. I said I loved it but the hot corners are the only thing that irritates me.

It is official folks, even if we like a product, we can NEVER.....NEVER say anything that irritates us again. Let's just get rid of movie, game, and product reviews since we cannot say anything about a product. If a company want to make a defective video card, it is their product and can do whatever they want with it.

[warwagon]

Dot Matrix, on 11 December 2012 - 12:44, said:

How? All the classic keyboard shortcuts still work, and the mouse works just as it did in Windows 7...

I never said they weren't. I guess what I should have said was "Windows 8 Modern UI / Charms, feels like the mouse and keyboard was an after thought"

[*RedBull*]

humanz., on 11 December 2012 - 12:49, said:

I regret spending $15 for the Win8 upgrade.

There are some stuff I like about it but Metro really pushes me back to re-evaluate my multi-tasking.

So what you are saying is you don't want to be bothered with learning. Well you can down grade for free. Then pass me your Win8 key thank-you very much.

[neufuse]

Dot Matrix, on 11 December 2012 - 12:44, said:

How? All the classic keyboard shortcuts still work, and the mouse works just as it did in Windows 7...

one example...... the start screen... with a touch screen you tap and drag... moves left and right... easy... I'd expect this same exact behavior with a mouse...

alright, click the screen and drag... hummmm nothing... oh wait a scroll bar popped up let me use that..... uh why? why do we have a scroll bar? we can easily emulate the touch response with a mouse, why did we make it two separate things? Pretty much all touch UI's I've used that also have a mouse, the mouse emulates touch if you don't have touch... sure you can't do multi point touch but it can at least emulate single point touch with a click and hold

it gets stupid when you can still emulate most other tap and drag things like the grab the top drag of the screen, drag to move, etc stuff in the "metro" apps yet something as simple as scrolling on the start screen uses a freaking scroll bar?

[Dot Matrix]

neufuse, on 11 December 2012 - 18:48, said:

one example...... the start screen... with a touch screen you tap and drag... moves left and right... easy... I'd expect this same exact behavior with a mouse...

alright, click the screen and drag... hummmm nothing... oh wait a scroll bar popped up let me use that..... uh why? why do we have a scroll bar? we can easily emulate the touch response with a mouse, why did we make it two separate things? Pretty much all touch UI's I've used that also have a mouse, the mouse emulates touch if you don't have touch... sure you can't do multi point touch but it can at least emulate single point touch with a click and hold

The mouse is not emulating touch. Nor was it ever designed to, and Windows 8 IS NOT replacing natural mouse movements with touch emulations.

The same can be said with webpages on a tablet, but we've known for a while now that the scroll wheel on the mouse makes our lives easier. The scroll wheel is the most efficient way to scroll. Duh.

So, why are you using the scrollbar? I've known since the betas that Start can be scrolled using the wheel...