74 replies to this topic 3 votes

[Athernar]

GP007, on 08 December 2012 - 20:42, said:

Why should I have to bother with my drivers at all is the point, yet we still have newer driver releases that manage to be worse forcing you to roll back. And just because you have something like steam auto updating your games doesn't mean they're better off now than .before. Also even if Xbox games get updates as well the number released is hardly the same. The auto detection for the graphics settings is also weak. I've often had to go in and change it manually because they are set to low even for my hd5770.

Oh please, you're just weakly grasping at straws now. Not only do drivers auto-update now (AMD's do at least), but I cannot remember a single game that has outright required a driver update short of the utter trainwreck that was RAGE.

If we're going to echo outdated talking points, how about we put the shoe on the other foot now with 4 letters: RROD.

[Detection]

I don't understand the arguments, PC and Console will each increase sales and popularity over the years, one will overtake the other, and then vice versa

Neither will die

EDIT - To add a point, aren't Mac and Linux leaning into adding gaming support lately too ?

[+McKay]

"Beat"? I didnt realize they were in a race. I think both will continue to co-exist peacefully. If anything Console gaming has brought advantages to PC gaming too, it's forced developers to refine their engines for lower hardware instead of just relying on newer hardware to power through sloppy coding.

Look at Oblivion compared to Skyrim, Same hardware requirements, a world apart. This means people can make PC's to play games for cheaper. Remember when the 360 first launched? It brought numerous advantages in tech to PC gaming.

This "There can only be one" attitude is hilarious.

[GP007]

Athernar, on 08 December 2012 - 21:31, said:

Oh please, you're just weakly grasping at straws now. Not only do drivers auto-update now (AMD's do at least), but I cannot remember a single game that has outright required a driver update short of the utter trainwreck that was RAGE.

If we're going to echo outdated talking points, how about we put the shoe on the other foot now with 4 letters: RROD.

Athernar, on 08 December 2012 - 21:31, said:

Oh please, you're just weakly grasping at straws now. Not only do drivers auto-update now (AMD's do at least), but I cannot remember a single game that has outright required a driver update short of the utter trainwreck that was RAGE.

If we're going to echo outdated talking points, how about we put the shoe on the other foot now with 4 letters: RROD.

And how many graphics cards get RMAd each year? Or just break and get replaced? You want to bring up the RRoD yet decide to overlook the fact that PC hardware craps out as well. And I'm not even talking about auto-updating drivers or games needing updated drivers I'm talking about drivers that crap your system up. Don't act like people have never had to rollback their drivers because something goes tits up with their system outside of when they play a game. You can think these issues are outdated but they're not. The best thing that happened in PC gaming was when MS yanked the graphics drivers out of kernel space and back into user space with Vista. Till then any buggy game could BSOD you, thank god that's at least one problem fixed now.

[Arceles]

GP007, on 08 December 2012 - 23:23, said:

And how many graphics cards get RMAd each year? Or just break and get replaced? You want to bring up the RRoD yet decide to overlook the fact that PC hardware craps out as well. And I'm not even talking about auto-updating drivers or games needing updated drivers I'm talking about drivers that crap your system up. Don't act like people have never had to rollback their drivers because something goes tits up with their system outside of when they play a game. You can think these issues are outdated but they're not. The best thing that happened in PC gaming was when MS yanked the graphics drivers out of kernel space and back into user space with Vista. Till then any buggy game could BSOD you, thank god that's at least one problem fixed now.

these cases are isolated, see http://forums.guru3d...isplay.php?f=46 and see also how while there are indeed problems, nobody complains about screwing up the system and rather they complain about performance loss in games (mostly x-fire or tri-fire configurations)

My own laptop is both overclocked from processor and GPU, plus all of my life have used AMD/ATi solutions, never seen cases like you describe.

[Athernar]

GP007, on 08 December 2012 - 23:23, said:

And how many graphics cards get RMAd each year? Or just break and get replaced? You want to bring up the RRoD yet decide to overlook the fact that PC hardware craps out as well. And I'm not even talking about auto-updating drivers or games needing updated drivers I'm talking about drivers that crap your system up. Don't act like people have never had to rollback their drivers because something goes tits up with their system outside of when they play a game. You can think these issues are outdated but they're not. The best thing that happened in PC gaming was when MS yanked the graphics drivers out of kernel space and back into user space with Vista. Till then any buggy game could BSOD you, thank god that's at least one problem fixed now.

You react all too predictably, immediately launching to the defence of Microsoft and the 360, downplaying the issues that have afflicted the system; while overstating issues which can effect PCs.

How many iterations of the 360 did it take Microsoft to solve the RROD issue? How many consoles broke after the release of a popular title?

You might of had a leg to stand on two generations ago when consoles like the original Playstation ruled the roost, but the facts are consoles are no longer the pop-in-and-go systems they were originally. That era died with the ability to do post-release patches. Likewise did the era of system destroying software updates and patch-hunting.

Console vs PC is a matter of form-factor, do you want to game with a controller on a big screen with a sofa; or do you prefer the precision of the keyboard and mouse. Maybe you like modding, maybe you want a device that does more than just play games. Those are the issues, not some half-assed excuse dredged up from the early 2000s.

[GP007]

Arceles, on 08 December 2012 - 23:38, said:

these cases are isolated, see http://forums.guru3d...isplay.php?f=46 and see also how while there are indeed problems, nobody complains about screwing up the system and rather they complain about performance loss in games (mostly x-fire or tri-fire configurations)

My own laptop is both overclocked from processor and GPU, plus all of my life have used AMD/ATi solutions, never seen cases like you describe.

Arceles, on 08 December 2012 - 23:38, said:

these cases are isolated, see http://forums.guru3d...isplay.php?f=46 and see also how while there are indeed problems, nobody complains about screwing up the system and rather they complain about performance loss in games (mostly x-fire or tri-fire configurations)

My own laptop is both overclocked from processor and GPU, plus all of my life have used AMD/ATi solutions, never seen cases like you describe.

Odd because if you ask the nVidia fans they'll tell you ATi drivers are nothing but problems. And as for Nvidia itself it's had it's fair share of problems lately. What about the whole fiasco with it's mobile GPUs overheating and crapping out on laptops? Look, I'm a PC gamer and a console gamer, not one or the other. To deny the PC still has it's share of problems be it software or hardware is the same as sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming. Just because you've had little or no issue doesn't mean your experience is the norm for everyone. I've known people who've had cards crap out on them more than once and I know people who've never had a card die on them at all. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I also know people who install the newest drivers right away only to rollback either because performance got worse like you say or the game and system get unstable.

[mrp04]

GP007, on 08 December 2012 - 23:57, said:

Odd because if you ask the nVidia fans they'll tell you ATi drivers are nothing but problems. And as for Nvidia itself it's had it's fair share of problems lately. What about the whole fiasco with it's mobile GPUs overheating and crapping out on laptops? Look, I'm a PC gamer and a console gamer, not one or the other. To deny the PC still has it's share of problems be it software or hardware is the same as sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming. Just because you've had little or no issue doesn't mean your experience is the norm for everyone. I've known people who've had cards crap out on them more than once and I know people who've never had a card die on them at all. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I also know people who install the newest drivers right away only to rollback either because performance got worse like you say or the game and system get unstable.

The laptop GPU thing was like back in 2008 and they were replaced. I have never had all these driver issues you keep going on about. I sometimes forget to update my graphics drivers for 6 months or so yet it seems every time I want to play my 360 I either need to update my dashboard or the game I want to play needs an update. That's because I don't play it often but it is quite annoying nonetheless. I have never had a game complain that the graphics drivers are out of date and a driver update hasn't messed my system up since the XP days. Have you gamed on PC recently?

[GP007]

Athernar, on 08 December 2012 - 23:53, said:

You react all too predictably, immediately launching to the defence of Microsoft and the 360, downplaying the issues that have afflicted the system; while overstating issues which can effect PCs.

How many iterations of the 360 did it take Microsoft to solve the RROD issue? How many consoles broke after the release of a popular title?

You might of had a leg to stand on two generations ago when consoles like the original Playstation ruled the roost, but the facts are consoles are no longer the pop-in-and-go systems they were originally. That era died with the ability to do post-release patches. Likewise did the era of system destroying software updates and patch-hunting.

Console vs PC is a matter of form-factor, do you want to game with a controller on a big screen with a sofa; or do you prefer the precision of the keyboard and mouse. Maybe you like modding, maybe you want a device that does more than just play games. Those are the issues, not some half-assed excuse dredged up from the early 2000s.

Athernar, on 08 December 2012 - 23:53, said:

You react all too predictably, immediately launching to the defence of Microsoft and the 360, downplaying the issues that have afflicted the system; while overstating issues which can effect PCs.

How many iterations of the 360 did it take Microsoft to solve the RROD issue? How many consoles broke after the release of a popular title?

You might of had a leg to stand on two generations ago when consoles like the original Playstation ruled the roost, but the facts are consoles are no longer the pop-in-and-go systems they were originally. That era died with the ability to do post-release patches. Likewise did the era of system destroying software updates and patch-hunting.

Console vs PC is a matter of form-factor, do you want to game with a controller on a big screen with a sofa; or do you prefer the precision of the keyboard and mouse. Maybe you like modding, maybe you want a device that does more than just play games. Those are the issues, not some half-assed excuse dredged up from the early 2000s.

Get off your high horse, I'm not defending the 360, or MS, if anything you're the one who jumped in to the defend the PC from the get go. Hardware still craps out on the PC, it's the nature of tech. Drivers are released that aren't the best, these things haven't changed. You bring up patching like it's the core of my argument when it's only one part. You bring up systems like steam which auto update and take some of the hassle away yet all it takes is one stroll to the steam community section and you'll see posts from people who've run into problems. It's not as perfect as you want to make it sound

Fact is, and I know this burns you from the sounds of it, but console gaming is still less hassle than PC gaming. And I play on both.

mrp04, on 09 December 2012 - 00:02, said:

The laptop GPU thing was like back in 2008 and they were replaced. I have never had all these driver issues you keep going on about. I sometimes forget to update my graphics drivers for 6 months or so yet it seems every time I want to play my 360 I either need to update my dashboard or the game I want to play needs an update. That's because I don't play it often but it is quite annoying nonetheless. I have never had a game complain that the graphics drivers are out of date and a driver update hasn't messed my system up since the XP days. Have you gamed on PC recently?

mrp04, on 09 December 2012 - 00:02, said:

The laptop GPU thing was like back in 2008 and they were replaced. I have never had all these driver issues you keep going on about. I sometimes forget to update my graphics drivers for 6 months or so yet it seems every time I want to play my 360 I either need to update my dashboard or the game I want to play needs an update. That's because I don't play it often but it is quite annoying nonetheless. I have never had a game complain that the graphics drivers are out of date and a driver update hasn't messed my system up since the XP days. Have you gamed on PC recently?

That's good for you, but again, your experience isn't the same one that everyone has. And yes I have gamed recently. I played dishonored on the PC. Of course as is common place around here if anyone says anything about problems with something there will always be someone who says they've never had issues.

[Athernar]

GP007, on 09 December 2012 - 00:13, said:

Get off your high horse, I'm not defending the 360, or MS, if anything you're the one who jumped in to the defend the PC from the get go. Hardware still craps out on the PC, it's the nature of tech. Drivers are released that aren't the best, these things haven't changed. You bring up patching like it's the core of my argument when it's only one part. You bring up systems like steam which auto update and take some of the hassle away yet all it takes is one stroll to the steam community section and you'll see posts from people who've run into problems. It's not as perfect as you want to make it sound

Fact is, and I know this burns you from the sounds of it, but console gaming is still less hassle than PC gaming. And I play on both.

I didn't jump in to defend anything, I jumped in to debunk your tired, out of date nonsense.

No one in this thread at any point has made any claim that the PC or any platform is perfect. You however have massively overstated the impact of various PC-related issue despite the disagreement of multiple posters, while trying to divert attention away from the far more impactful RROD issue (I know it burns you to dwell on it, but how many revisions did it take to fix?) by bringing up a less notable run of poorly fabbed laptop chips by NVidia.

The PC isn't perfect, but it's far better than you make it out to be. Consoles however have only gotten more complex and more error-prone.

[GP007]

Athernar, on 09 December 2012 - 00:38, said:

I didn't jump in to defend anything, I jumped in to debunk your tired, out of date nonsense.

No one in this thread at any point has made any claim that the PC or any platform is perfect. You however have massively overstated the impact of various PC-related issue despite the disagreement of multiple posters, while trying to divert attention away from the far more impactful RROD issue (I know it burns you to dwell on it, but how many revisions did it take to fix?) by bringing up a less notable run of poorly fabbed laptop chips by NVidia.

The PC isn't perfect, but it's far better than you make it out to be. Consoles however have only gotten more complex and more error-prone.

You're still stuck on the RRoD issue, from what I remember it took 3 revisions. In either case console hardware revisions have always happened, even without a big problem like the RRoD the 360 still would've had it's revisions over time. The whole point is to drop costs. How many revisions did the PlayStation 2 go through?

I guess you live in a perfect PC hardware world, good for you. That doesn't change the fact that even as consoles have gotten more complex they're still less of a hassle than the PC.

[Athernar]

GP007, on 09 December 2012 - 00:44, said:

You're still stuck on the RRoD issue, from what I remember it took 3 revisions. In either case console hardware revisions have always happened, even without a big problem like the RRoD the 360 still would've had it's revisions over time. The whole point is to drop costs. How many revisions did the PlayStation 2 go through?

I guess you live in a perfect PC hardware world, good for you. That doesn't change the fact that even as consoles have gotten more complex they're still less of a hassle than the PC.

Hah! You cling to outdated misconceptions and then have the sheer gall to claim -I'm- the one living in a "perfect PC hardware world", and the one "stuck" on the RROD issue?

The only reason I brought up the RROD (and the hilarious time it took them to fix it) in the first place to demonstrate how stuck in the past you are, but it seems the meaning was lost on you.

But as it seems you're not interested in reality and only want to play a game of extremes, I'll leave you with the following thought: It's rather hard to play games on a console that turns itself into a doorstop.

[Javik]

For the most part ATI's drivers have been rock solid for me. I did have one set (about 6 months ago) that were crashed a few times by Hammer (Valve's map editing tool) but that went away with the next month's update. I haven't had a display driver related BSOD since I built this machine just over a year ago.

[dead.cell]

GP007, on 09 December 2012 - 00:44, said:

I guess you live in a perfect PC hardware world, good for you. That doesn't change the fact that even as consoles have gotten more complex they're still less of a hassle than the PC.

Not exactly a fact, since your personal experiences and opinions aren't going to accurately hold up to that. Hell, seeing the debate in this thread alone proves that there is little "fact" in the matter.

I mean, I've seen 360 users having gone through at least 3 console systems on average. Whether they got it fixed by Microsoft, got a refurbished model, or a new one altogether, 3 seems to be the magic number from everyone I ask. My point with that is that it'd be silly for me to say PC gaming is easier because I've seen many others with console issues.

And regarding driver issues, or what issues you may see on the forums whether it's consoles or PC gaming, it's very hard to measure any of that because most people who aren't having problems will not be on a forum telling everyone their game is working flawlessly. They're likely too busy playing the game after all, as anyone would be.

[Lord Method Man]

My personal failure rate with consoles is far higher than with PC hardware. In fact the most recent console I've owned that didn't suffer some form of hardware failure was the Sega Dreamcast.