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Off-duty deputy shoots, kills suspected Walmart shoplifter

texas walmart shoplifting

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#121 Richteralan

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 16:10

First off let me preface this by saying what someone else said. We don't know all the facts of this incident. We just allegedly know what happened. We won't know all the facts until the security camera footage is viewed and all witnesses have been interviewed. So, no one can make assumptions either way.

That being said... this police officer made several procedural mistakes. He recklessly approached a suspect vehicle alone in a high-risk situation in which he had neither cover nor control. He was outnumbered and had no indication of whether any of the suspects were armed or whether weapons may have been in the car (always assume they are and that there are). Since, he failed to establish any sort of control at that point, he should have allowed the vehicle to leave and called for backup/the local PD, and given them the vehicle description and plates along with the number and description of the suspects he encountered. Yes, you can make the "Take reasonable action to detain or arrest" argument. But, he actually exposed himself pretty badly by doing what he did.

Now, an assumption on my part is that he assumed since they were female and were only shoplifting, they weren't armed. I hope he didn't make this assumption, but his alleged actions say otherwise. Had they been armed and were the type, he would be dead. Too many instances of officers losing their lives in this very scenario or very similar scenarios. There've been several here in the Dallas area.

Moving on. If it turns out that from where he fired he was indeed in danger, it will be a justified shoot. But, if the security footage and or witnesses find him well clear of the vehicle before he fired, he's in trouble. Again, this will all depend on the actual facts not our conjecture here on a forum for geeks. Oh as an FYI, he didn't shoot the driver, he shot a passenger.



While you are somewhat correct about how the officer should've handled the situation (read the above), Skyfrog is correct about warning shots. In the U.S. a police officer is taught to never discharge his firearm in less it is in a situation In which they are justified in the use of deadly force. To put it bluntly, a police officer will only fire their weapon with the intent to kill someone.

Thanks for the post! Good clarification!


#122 shakey

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 21:01

"but the car was placed in drive and moved forward,"

So you automatically assumed that she would just drove away without hitting him?


So you automatically assume that she would just drive over him when he was on the side of the car? See, it works both ways. Maybe if you didn't assume things you wouldn't seem like an ass.

It's pretty sad that the moment a person does anything wrong they become fair game to die in the eyes of Neowin's gun nuts. You people are disgusting examples to humanity and I hope someone couples all of you with the kind of violence you seem to crave to be inflicted upon others.


It's a good thing most of the people on these forums stay inside and aren't a big part of society. They are mostly pathetic lonely beings who think that small little actions deserve death, that if 1 small time shop lifter got away then every criminal ever would steal and always get away, and that police never lie or do anything wrong and their use of force against citizens is a measure to keep us in line! Sheeps and just plain asshats are making up a lot of the population lately.



Most procedures tell cops to not attempt to stop a suspect if it will endanger others lives or if it is in the best safety of everyone to just let them go for the time being. They had her on camera, they had her license plate and car. This woman died because the cop did not use his brain, and instead reacted upon instinct. Stealing a little item is no reason for death. Unless we are living in Iran or something.... because some of you backwoods people sure spout **** out that sounds much like it.

#123 hjf288

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 21:10

I'm not putting all the blame on the Cop, if you read my earlier comment I said I know she was wrong to commit the crimes, I'm just saying the Cop handled it wrong and used excessive force. I'm not saying this stuff to the Cop, Im saying this to the people who are saying stuff like "Good" and "One less Scum" etc


It's ridiculous people like you that makes the UK look foolish when it comes to the handling of criminals.

OH WE CANT HURT THEIR FEELINGS, OH NO THEIR HUMAN RIGHTS..

Hell I suppose you condoned the riots here because They were just expressing their pent up negativity?

The woman got what she deserved after blatently disregarding the law and trying to injure an officer of the law - He gave her ample chance to give herself up and could've been injured for his leniency - it's not like he pulled his weapon right away and just shot her after being assaulted.

#124 Wyn6

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 21:16

in America you are allowed to use deadly force to prevent escape from justice.


Sorry, seta-san. That's not quite the case. A police officer is not legally justified in shooting a fleeing suspect. They are justified in giving chase, in which case they're instructed to call for support and continue pursuit if possible. However, they are also instructed, in many cases (this varies by agency), to only continue pursuit of a fleeing suspect as long as officer and civilian safety is maximized. The use of deadly force is only permitted in instances in which the officer feels that their life, the life of fellow officers, or others are under imminent threat.

Shooting a fleeing suspect, especially if unarmed, is a no-no. This is the quickest way for a cop to face criminal charges. That's not to say they will be necessarily indicted, or if indicted, convicted. But, they will definitely be in a bar situation.

#125 trag3dy

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 22:57

People justifying a ridiculous and preventable outcome again, I see. :rolleyes:

I've said it before and I'll say it again; if this happened in England, nobody would have died.


You're right. It was 100% ridiculous and preventable. All she had to do was stop within the first 3 times he told her to.

#126 shakey

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 23:21

You're right. It was 100% ridiculous and preventable. All she had to do was stop within the first 3 times he told her to.


But because she didn't, her life was the price. Yup, justified, because we all know the cops are the ones who decide innocence. And that life is worth less than whatever she obviously stole.

#127 Growled

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 23:22

You're right. It was 100% ridiculous and preventable. All she had to do was stop within the first 3 times he told her to.


Yes, it is her fault. However, the policeman is not entirely blameless either.

#128 trag3dy

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 23:46

But because she didn't, her life was the price. Yup, justified, because we all know the cops are the ones who decide innocence. And that life is worth less than whatever she obviously stole.


I never said anything like that. The lady though is the one that escalated the situation when she chose to shop lift in the first place. You act like the cop had a goal that night that he was going to go out and kill a shoplifter, like he thought of himself as judge, jury, and executioner.

When it comes down to it that lady thought she was above the law and that she didn't have to comply. She decided her fate and no one else when she not only did she physically assault the police officer but decide to run from him.

Please note I'm not saying the lady deserved to die.

Yes, it is her fault. However, the policeman is not entirely blameless either.


I never said he wasn't. It could have without a doubt been handled differently. But have you ever been caught in a moment and done something without thinking? Or done something and then later think back and realize you could have handled it differently? Still, I place the blame on the lady for causing the situation to begin with.

The cop was just doing his job, her choices caused everything that happened.

#129 shakey

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 23:57

I never said anything like that. The lady though is the one that escalated the situation when she chose to shop lift in the first place. You act like the cop had a goal that night that he was going to go out and kill a shoplifter, like he thought of himself as judge, jury, and executioner.

When it comes down to it that lady thought she was above the law and that she didn't have to comply. She decided her fate and no one else when she not only did she physically assault the police officer but decide to run from him.

Please note I'm not saying the lady deserved to die.



I never said he wasn't. It could have without a doubt been handled differently. But have you ever been caught in a moment and done something without thinking? Or done something and then later think back and realize you could have handled it differently? Still, I place the blame on the lady for causing the situation to begin with.

The cop was just doing his job, her choices caused everything that happened.


The cop wasn't doing his job properly though. He could have let it go, called for back up, or taken down all the info needed to arrest the suspect at a better location where less people would be involved. The cop escalated it to the highest point, taking a life. There is nothing higher than that, except more lives being lost.
If the cop had followed protocol, he would have got back up, not put himself in danger, and not have shot an unarmed shoplifter.

You can't just keep giving excuses to cops to continue to keep shooting at us citizens. We have to demand more from them, more of our lives, and stop being so brutal in our tactics that we deem it OK to take the life of another.

#130 Growled

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 00:01

I never said he wasn't. It could have without a doubt been handled differently. But have you ever been caught in a moment and done something without thinking? Or done something and then later think back and realize you could have handled it differently? Still, I place the blame on the lady for causing the situation to begin with.

The cop was just doing his job, her choices caused everything that happened.


I understand better what you are saying and I agree. And btw, I too have been in situations where I got caught up in the moment and things didn't work out quite the best for everyone involved. I know what you are talking about. It happens.

#131 shakey

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 00:04

I understand better what you are saying and I agree. And btw, I too have been in situations where I got caught up in the moment and things didn't work out quite the best for everyone involved. I know what you are talking about. It happens.


I agree too. But we need people in such positions of power and authority to be more in control of their behavior. We need better than average guys doing this type of job.

#132 Growled

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 00:08

I agree too. But we need people in such positions of power and authority to be more in control of their behavior. We need better than average guys doing this type of job.


How do we know that this guy was just an average guy? He may be a brilliant cop for all we know. Things can get out of hand for the best of us.

#133 Richteralan

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:41

How do we know that this guy was just an average guy? He may be a brilliant cop for all we know. Things can get out of hand for the best of us.

Well hope all the dollars put into police training was worth it....................

#134 +Aheer.R.S.

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:50

sorry, what happened to shooting out her tyres?
ok I live in the UK so the only types of police that carry hard ammo firearms are airport police and special Armed Police, (that I can think of, off the top of my head) but I watch a lot of those police videos hosted by Retired Sheriff John Burnell, and I'm a little surprised at this officer's reaction

#135 trag3dy

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:24

sorry, what happened to shooting out her tyres?
ok I live in the UK so the only types of police that carry hard ammo firearms are airport police and special Armed Police, (that I can think of, off the top of my head) but I watch a lot of those police videos hosted by Retired Sheriff John Burnell, and I'm a little surprised at this officer's reaction


And what happens when he shoots out her tires, she loses control of her car and plows into a crowd of people? Who is to blame then?



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