36 replies to this topic

[Simon-]

BudMan, on 12 December 2012 - 16:07, said:

"The best hope of it connecting natively is WPA with TKIP, which is just as insecure as WEP"

That is PURE freaking FUD!!! Are there attacks against TKIP sure - but they are not the sort of attacks that allow access to the network. Sorry but WPA tkip is vastly more secure than just WEP.

A quick Google search of "wpa tkip crack" provides plenty of off-the-shelf tools that any script kiddie can download and crack into your network in the search for free Wi-Fi when you are in a very built-up area and your network is the least secure of the lot. Sure it's going to take a little longer to wait until one of your devices re-connects to your Wi-Fi network for the passphrase packet to be intercepted, and then little bit longer to bruteforce the packet to get the key after that, but if someone who lives in range of your network wants to steal your internet, WPA+TKIP is not going to stop them.

[The Teej]

sc302, on 12 December 2012 - 15:45, said:

get a miniusb wifi adapter. It should have the capability and driver support that you need to do what you want. you will need to have it support the os that is on that laptop.

This. Just make sure you disable or uninstall your Laptop's current wireless drivers first!

[srbeen]

Dot Matrix, on 12 December 2012 - 00:02, said:

It "sees" the network, but is unable to acquire an IP.

sounds like DHCP is turned off. A lot of people whitelist wifi points too. no password but if your MAC isnt on the accepted list you get no IP.

[srbeen]

Simon-, on 16 December 2012 - 14:01, said:

A quick Google search of "wpa tkip crack" provides plenty of off-the-shelf tools that any script kiddie can download and crack into your network in the search for free Wi-Fi when you are in a very built-up area and your network is the least secure of the lot. Sure it's going to take a little longer to wait until one of your devices re-connects to your Wi-Fi network for the passphrase packet to be intercepted, and then little bit longer to bruteforce the packet to get the key after that, but if someone who lives in range of your network wants to steal your internet, WPA+TKIP is not going to stop them.

To follow up on this, WPA2 is also equally secure or insecure, depending how you want to look at it. The problem being is although your packets are encrypted, they can be intercepted. If the data is intercepted and the scheme of the encryption is known (WEP/WPA/WPA2 schemes are basically public knowledge) its just a matter of intercepting enough packets to narrow down key possibilities. WPA2 will take LONGER to crack than WPA, which takes longer than WEP as WPA2 has a longer key so much more possibilities. WPA2 may something like a few million packets where WPA can be cracked on a few thousand logged packets, and WEP you can inject false packets as you please.

The moral of the story is WPA and up is more secure the less you use it, and less secure the more you use it.

[Dot Matrix]

BudMan, on 12 December 2012 - 16:07, said:

"The best hope of it connecting natively is WPA with TKIP, which is just as insecure as WEP"

That is PURE freaking FUD!!! Are there attacks against TKIP sure - but they are not the sort of attacks that allow access to the network. Sorry but WPA tkip is vastly more secure than just WEP.

XP with the right service pack will support WPA/WPA2 but your problem is most likely his hardware. What is the actual wireless card that is in the laptop? 2001 - you sure its not just a B card? 802.11g did not come out until 2003 if I recall correctly, so if his hardware is from 2001 -- I would have to expect its only 802.11b -- yeah good luck getting that to support WPA even tkip, even if the OS supports it, no good if hardware does not.

The suggestion of getting a usb or even pcmicia wifi card is the best bet. You can find them for <$10 for sure!

Thank you, BudMan

[+BudMan]

"A quick Google search of "wpa tkip crack" provides plenty of off-the-shelf tools that any script kiddie can download and crack into your network"

This goes for WPA2 AES as well if you use P@55w0rd! as your PSK

Please show me attack other than bruteforce/dictionary PSK that allows you into tkip vs aes

Are you talking about the attack from 2008? Dude what part do you not understand about this attack??

"This is not a key recovery attack. TKIP keys are not compromised and it does not lead to decryption of all subsequent frames."

With WEP in like 30 seconds I can be ON YOU NETWORK!!! And watching ALL traffic, using your internet connection, run attacks against your other machines, etc. etc.. Sorry but there are no other attacks other then breaking the PSK that allow you do to this. Be it tkip or aes. So making a statement that tkip is akin to wep is just FUD pure and simple.

Yes any script kiddie can run these attacks, yes can download a simple script to get you on any WEP network in a matter of seconds. Where is this attack against tkip? Point them out, name them. If you would read any of the hits from your own google example you would see this.

Are you talking about grabbing the handshake, and doing a deauthenticate against a client to get the handshake - sure this can be done very quickly. And sure in a sense is easier than WEP.. Problem is with wep there is a limited key space, and I can crack that in seconds sure.

And if you used something like the above P@55w0rd! as your psk then sure your not very secure -- but if you use something like,

WR8c0VCk_+Y;nzgFd/z*WjX\w!y$$]u}

Good freaking luck using your dictionary, bruteforce or even rainbow tables on that. So again saying WPA tkip is as insecure as wep is just not true.

edit: just as a final note, Let me quote one of the guides from the actual makers of very popular crack tools guides on cracking wpa/wpa2 on their website. Now they don't distinguish between tkip or aes in this statement. If tkip wpa was as weak as wep like you say. I would think a site like this would clearly point that out, but what they do say is this

"if you want to have an unbreakable wireless network at home, use WPA/WPA2 and a 63 character password composed of random characters including special symbols."

Now should you use wpa2 aes, yes if your devices all support this - then by all means this is what you should be using with a SECURE PSK!! Or you still leave yourself open to something as simple as a dictionary attack.

[u2_storm]

BudMan is absolutely right on the post above, I would also agree that it's going to be a B card inside. I've had limited success in upgrading the WIFI card drivers inside (it might be worth a go) however a PCMCIA G card or USB card should cost almost nothing on ebay etc and that should fix the issue.

[msn_crazy_100]

Have you looked for any driver updates for the wifi on the notebook? Might show up on windows update under optional/hardware or check google or the manufacturers site.

[Simon-]

I apologise, yes it is a bruteforce attack to get the key (not as easy as a WEP attack), and there also one where a few rouge packets can be inserted here and there (not a full takeover), what I read about the TKIP attack is that it can purportedly be broken in 15 minutes using a Man in the Middle attack - but so far there are no freely available tools to do this.
Just make sure that you standard security protocol to have a very long password with uppercase, lowercase and special characters and no dictionary words, and it will take forever to crack even with WPA TKIP.

Still, many Wireless cards of this era support WPA-TKIP, not just WEP, but not WPA-AES or WPA2, so WPA-TKIP is worth a go with a long password, otherwise use an ethernet cable or get a new laptop (It is a waste of money to buy a new PCI/USB Wireless card, as this money could be going towards a new laptop).

[+BudMan]

"many Wireless cards of this era support WPA-TKIP,"

How is that, when his card was made in 2001, and WPA (sometimes referred to as the draft IEEE 802.11i standard) became available in 2003

While I somewhat agree, money could be spent on a newer machine. You can pick up a wireless card for less than $10. There are 12 devices under that price here http://www.newegg.co...240%20-%20%2410

I would think the cost of a Beer at the airport is worth the hassle of switching between wep and wpa, etc.

[eXtermia]

There are also wifi to ethernet adapters, its a small little box that can be powered from usb.
such as http://www.amazon.co...ernet+converter but there are cheaper ones from HAMA and other companies out there.

[Guth]

Haven't read your thread but just the first post, WPA PSK is no more secure than WEP.
I tested out my own router with reaver, it is WPA2-PSK and reaver cracked the password in 1 hour 50 minutes by bruteforcing the routers pin.

just wanted to put that out there.

sorry just ignore me, looks like this has already been covered lol

[+sc302]

Guth, on 17 December 2012 - 12:57, said:

Haven't read your thread but just the first post, WPA PSK is no more secure than WEP.
I tested out my own router with reaver, it is WPA2-PSK and reaver cracked the password in 1 hour 50 minutes.

just wanted to put that out there.

sorry just ignore me, looks like this has already been covered lol

It's been covered and just because you can brute force a password doesn't make it less secure. You need to revisit your password strength. Wep transmits the pass in clear text wpa does not.

Try this for a pass and let me know how long it takes

Poopbabyyum

3 simple words that are easy to remember creating a long password that doesn't exist in any single word dictionary.

[Guth]

sc302, on 17 December 2012 - 13:12, said:

It's been covered and just because you can brute force a password doesn't make it less secure. You need to revisit your password strength. Wep transmits the pass in clear text wpa does not.

Try this for a pass and let me know how long it takes

Poopbabyyum

3 simple words that are easy to remember creating a long password that doesn't exist in any single word dictionary.

reaver doesn't use a dictionary, it cracks a vulnerability in PSK pins and gains the pass that way.

Quote

Reaver implements a brute force attack against Wifi Protected Setup (WPS) registrar PINs in order to recover WPA/WPA2 passphrases, as described in http://sviehb.files....ehboeck_wps.pdf.

ill try that tonight though when dad goes to bed and let you know.

[+sc302]

will have to play with reaver..but I don't leave WPS on. You would need to have a wap with wps enabled for that to work.