Jump to content



Photo

Overclocking my Eyes


  • Please log in to reply
49 replies to this topic

#46 IntegralDerivative

IntegralDerivative

    Math is the abstract key that unlocks the physical universe

  • 486 posts
  • Joined: 27-August 12
  • Location: Philippines
  • OS: Windows 8.1, Windows 7, Android 4.2.1
  • Phone: O+ 8.91

Posted 19 December 2012 - 15:50

It's really annoying when people try to equate eyesight to frame per second. Eyes are not mechanical, people. A relevant video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buSaywCF6E8


Nice vid, by the way, here's the answer from my Y!answers question.



No, I do not see any science behind that. The human visual system is not a personal computer that you can monkey with.




#47 Jason S.

Jason S.

    Neowinian Senior

  • 12,180 posts
  • Joined: 01-September 03
  • Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Posted 21 December 2012 - 18:48

Thats myth, not fact. Human eyes can view between 80-120fps just fine. Most people can see dips below 60/70 fps and notice it.

Films are only 24fps because they're not moving as fast as games, even in action based heavy hitters. The hobbit was filmed at 48fps.

i think the whole "eye fps" thing is a myth. EVERYONE claims to know the answer, but i've never seen proof of any of them. "I think it's more like 30..." "actually, it's 60" "well, ive heard that it's more like 100-117" and my favorite "i can totally see the frames when it's less than x" :rolleyes:

#48 IntegralDerivative

IntegralDerivative

    Math is the abstract key that unlocks the physical universe

  • 486 posts
  • Joined: 27-August 12
  • Location: Philippines
  • OS: Windows 8.1, Windows 7, Android 4.2.1
  • Phone: O+ 8.91

Posted 24 December 2012 - 10:50

i think the whole "eye fps" thing is a myth. EVERYONE claims to know the answer, but i've never seen proof of any of them. "I think it's more like 30..." "actually, it's 60" "well, ive heard that it's more like 100-117" and my favorite "i can totally see the frames when it's less than x" :rolleyes:


Ikr

#49 vetthe evn show

the evn show

    Removed

  • 5,254 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 02

Posted 25 December 2012 - 06:43

Removed

#50 IntegralDerivative

IntegralDerivative

    Math is the abstract key that unlocks the physical universe

  • 486 posts
  • Joined: 27-August 12
  • Location: Philippines
  • OS: Windows 8.1, Windows 7, Android 4.2.1
  • Phone: O+ 8.91

Posted 19 March 2013 - 13:00

Suppose I dig out my old intro text book and say "Neuroscience, 5th Ed. Read Chapter 2.11-13 and all of Chapter 5" Would you? Probably not - the book is like $150. The audience of the book is undergraduate science majors but most people don't study biology in highschool so they probably don't have the background to appreciate the information in the book. A better text is "Theories of Brain function" but that's from a 4th year course - it's doubtful anybody that isn't majoring in psychology or neuroscience would get much out of it (just like a Calc 3 textbook is worthless to somebody who has no idea what a tailor expansion is). In either case you're going to be out $150 so nobody is actually going to check my sources.

It's way easier to read some comp-gamer website and just take whatever they say as gospel. Better (at least from an academic standpoint) is to find a discussion from a site dedicated to video and vision but even that doesn't always tell the full story. It'd be easy to quote a wikipedia article that says "24 FPS is enough to make people experience fluid motion most of the time" and be done - but there's more to it than that.

If I had to give a TLDR explanation of how vision works on my next exam (I'm in my final year of neuroscience) I'd say something like "Your brain gets stream of information from all over the body and uses it to construct a model of the world that you perceive as vision." Nobody likes that answer because it makes the topic complicated. There's more to vision than just putting info from eyeballs into a 3d picture of the world: things you can't see are made up or filled in. your blind spots are 'edited out'. You fill in details based on expectations (which is important in recognizing faces). Information from the rest of your body factors in (spin around 50 times as fast as you can then look at the roof: the whole room appears to visually spinning even though your eyes and body are clearly not spinning). We know that if one particular cell is constantly bombarded eventually your brain will start to ignore when building up the visual picture but will pay "extra attention" when the information it's receiving changes (you notice a light going out or switching on - but after a little while you don't really notice it any more. Colors can change and you don't notice so long as it happens gradually and goes on in the background).

Then there's issues like being more sensitive to changes in brightness in one direction vs another: Stare at the sun and blink: you don't even notice the change in brightness. Be in a pitch-black room when someone takes your picture with a flash (which is 100x faster than blinking) and you'll be immediately aware of the event.

Then there's ambiguity in the question. What does it mean to "see" 30 frames per second vs 60 frames per second? Does it merely mean to be able to read a book flashed 1 word at a time with 1 word per 'frame'? If that's the case you probably can't sustain more than 5 frames per second. Does it mean to detect that one image sequence is at a different framerate than another? In that case 25 FPS vs 1500 FPS is easily identified. Does it mean to percieve a single event that lasts 1/x of a second? If that's the case then maybe you can, maybe you can't (see the example of a flash photo for an example of a 1000 FPS event you can detect even with your eyes closed)

Then there are questions about the type of sequence you're seeing: a higher frame rate in a game means you're less likely to notice the latency between your inputs on the keyboard/mouse and what you see on screen -- does that count as "seeing a difference"? If you're just watching a video played back it's much harder to detect a lower framerate. Then there's a matter of the type of image you use.Imagine a 30 FPS image that pans across a football field in 1 second. Each "frame" is gong to move by 10 yards -- motion won't appear smooth at all if you're watching from a blimp over the field. Do the same test projecting the image across a 20" monitor and it'll appear very smooth. Then there's video games (which are discreet images that are unusually crisp) vs movies (which have motion blur and other artifacts from the recording process that make it easier for the video to create the illusion of motion).

Once you realize how complicated the question is you can understand why 100 people will have 100 different answers: they're not answering the same question. When you've worked out how they're interpreting the question -- or what the OP is asking -- then you can start to phrase your answer. Unfortunately that that's a hard thing to do, especially if you aren't even aware that the topic is pretty detailed or that the answer you do have (ie; 24 FPS is enough for most people to experience the illusion of smooth motion) isn't sufficient to answer or even applicable to similar questions (ie: can you detect a difference between 60 FPS and 120 FPS?).

tl,dr

not reallly into long stuff today