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Mindovermaster

Linux, as a Whole

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Yes you should also mention the state of some Video codecs... that one would have to agree to be installed. this is what people also complain about.

Why won't X video play but it does in Windows-- Not realizing that When you agree to install Windows you also agree to those terms as well..

If the first time user of linux would not say but OSX or Windows does it like that and realize that Linux still does the same thing.

Video codecs? That's one I haven't heard anyone complain about in years, although I do remember Brian Lunduke ranting about it on the Linux Action Show. (I think it was during one of their Fedora reviews. He got very passionate during those.) In general, you can easily install restricted codecs from Debian Multimedia, Ubuntu Restricted Extras, or the equivalent sources for other distributions. Some distributions, like Linux Mint, even install restricted codecs by default. Personally, I've never had a problem with VLC or MPlayer not playing something, even without codecs from Debian Multimedia.

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Yes you should also mention the state of some Video codecs... that one would have to agree to be installed. this is what people also complain about.

Why won't X video play but it does in Windows-- Not realizing that When you agree to install Windows you also agree to those terms as well..

If the first time user of linux would not say but OSX or Windows does it like that and realize that Linux still does the same thing.

I've never had problems playing any type of videos in linux. Unless its a DRM'd video or something anything should play fine provided you have the codecs installed

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Video codecs? That's one I haven't heard anyone complain about in years, although I do remember Brian Lunduke ranting about it on the Linux Action Show. (I think it was during one of their Fedora reviews. He got very passionate during those.) In general, you can easily install restricted codecs from Debian Multimedia, Ubuntu Restricted Extras, or the equivalent sources for other distributions. Some distributions, like Linux Mint, even install restricted codecs by default. Personally, I've never had a problem with VLC or MPlayer not playing something, even without codecs from Debian Multimedia.

Same here, No problem @ all.Actually I prefer to Encode video by Open Shot on it wvwn to my Xbox 360 HD format.

Perhaps, your experience is a bit old!!!

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I completely agree. I know I've said it before, but I believe that one of the major hangups people have using Linux is that they expect it to work like Windows, and it doesn't. The Linux philosophy is quite different.

One of the first things that frustrates people trying out Ubuntu or some other Linux distro, especially techies, is software installation from the Internet. Essentially, they don't understand the typical Linux approach to software management: repositories. Often entwined with that problem is the lack of understanding about the state of proprietary drivers in Linux. People assume that the nVidia or AMD proprietary display drivers are obviously superior to their open-source clones, which is not necessarily the case, especially for older graphics cards. Those same people will then proceed to download the driver blob from the manufacturer's website, which is what you would normally do in Windows but isn't usually a good idea in Linux, and don't understand how to install it.

Canonical has attempted to solve both of these problems with their personal package archives (PPAs) and their Additional Drivers tool for installing proprietary drivers in Ubuntu. The problem isn't how well existing implementations in Linux work; its mentality. The typical Linux solution isn't necessary better than the Windows solution; its just different. I'll get off my soap box now...

Actually the thing that annoys people isn't that, they're fine witht he repositories and all that. what's annoying is two things

1: software in the repo is usually outdated.

2: software that's not in repos for your distro of choice. then you have to go do the whole song and dance to get the software, if you're lucky you find something pre made for your system, , middle lucky, you get something compiled but you still need all the other stuff, really unlucky, you need to compile.

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I've never had problems playing any type of videos in linux. Unless its a DRM'd video or something anything should play fine provided you have the codecs installed

Video codecs? That's one I haven't heard anyone complain about in years, although I do remember Brian Lunduke ranting about it on the Linux Action Show. (I think it was during one of their Fedora reviews. He got very passionate during those.) In general, you can easily install restricted codecs from Debian Multimedia, Ubuntu Restricted Extras, or the equivalent sources for other distributions. Some distributions, like Linux Mint, even install restricted codecs by default. Personally, I've never had a problem with VLC or MPlayer not playing something, even without codecs from Debian Multimedia.

No the point is-- that you have to install the codecs... People complain that it just does not play the movie like Windows Media player. That is always the complaint that I hear a lot with people who go from Windows to Linux.

I personally accept that I may need to for example enable Mediabuntu as well as run one simple command to install all the codecs currently in use.

The problem is with a lot of people who try to play a video in windows and it plays, but then complain when they try to play the same video in windows and it prompts them to install a codec.

I also have the default as well as VLC-- I like it because I can up the volume past the normal levels.

as well as one simple change and I can make it use even though something is not 5.1 use all my speakers.

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Actually the thing that annoys people isn't that, they're fine witht he repositories and all that. what's annoying is two things

1: software in the repo is usually outdated.

2: software that's not in repos for your distro of choice. then you have to go do the whole song and dance to get the software, if you're lucky you find something pre made for your system, , middle lucky, you get something compiled but you still need all the other stuff, really unlucky, you need to compile.

As for the fist annoyance, I think older software mostly bothers techies once they understand how the repository works. Understanding how to install new software is still the first hurdle. Even so, average users generally hate updating software. They don't care if there are new features, or often even security flaws, they just want the software to do what its supposed to. That's why both Firefox and Chrome have background updaters which require no user interaction. That's why Windows Update automatically downloads and installs critical updates in the background. That's also why most users don't care about slightly older software. (Although, I admit that average users don't make up the majority of Linux users, which bolsters my second point.)

As for the second annoyance, software that is not in the repository is few and far between (at least open-source software, proprietary software opens another can of worms). Different distros have different solutions for this problem.

Rolling release distros, like Arch, simply release the latest software as soon as it becomes available. If you can sacrifice a little potential stability for bleeding edge software, this model is for you.

Other distros, like Debian, provide a special backports repository that includes the latest release of many popular packages. While backports certainly doesn't encompass anywhere close to everything, it does allow you to get the latest version of most popular software without sacrificing any potential system stability.

Still other distros, such as Ubuntu, allow individuals or organizations to create their own hosted repositories with the latest versions of their software. This is kind of a hybrid solution between Debian and Arch. Anyone can create a PPA containing anything, including the very latest version of any software package they desire, but it doesn't guarantee the quality or rigorous testing that Debian Developers have to subject their backports to.

If you really want to download and install another piece of software not already in the repository, that is also fairly easy to do. Debian and its derivatives provide build-essential, which installs the essential packages required from building most software. If the software you downloaded uses autoconf (indicated by the presence of a ./configure script), it will be able to detect missing dependencies and suggest packages from the repository you should install to allow it to compile. Furthermore, Debian's devscripts provide an easy way to 'Debianize' any software and create a binary package that can be easily installed and redistributed.

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No the point is-- that you have to install the codecs... People complain that it just does not play the movie like Windows Media player. That is always the complaint that I hear a lot with people who go from Windows to Linux.

I personally accept that I may need to for example enable Mediabuntu as well as run one simple command to install all the codecs currently in use.

The problem is with a lot of people who try to play a video in windows and it plays, but then complain when they try to play the same video in windows and it prompts them to install a codec.

I also have the default as well as VLC-- I like it because I can up the volume past the normal levels.

as well as one simple change and I can make it use even though something is not 5.1 use all my speakers.

and windows 7 still cant play mkv's by default and prior to windows 7 it couldn't even play xvid or h.264 at all by default This is a very weak critisism. No os has every codec under the sun installed, and linux distros make it pretty easy to install codecs... (and some have a bunch installed by default)

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Don't think I've ever had any issues with codecs under Linux. No different than Windows, if it's not there, you gotta get them. A non-argument.

Hardware is passable to good with a few exceptions in my particular setup. Video (nVidia) is pretty solid minus some quirks with multiple displays, still slower than Windows but not horrible either, a healthy 'acceptable'. I won't even bother with any ATI boards under Linux anymore, they've cheesed me off for the last time. Have yet to find a distro that plays nice with my mouse (Cyborg RAT 9), each and every one of them requires manual xorg.conf additions or I can't use any GUI elements, glad I keep a spare cheapie mouse laying around just for the initial setup. One of my systems has an old old old Hauppauge BT878 based video capture board, Linux actually has the edge with that one as no x64 drivers exist for Windows from the manufacturer, have yet to ever get that working on anything past x86 XP. Audio initially is iffy as I need to "re-task" the jacks for surround sound, took a little digging but found a workaround eventually to do that.

Rolling release distros, like Arch, simply release the latest software as soon as it becomes available. If you can sacrifice a little potential stability for bleeding edge software, this model is for you.

I personally like how Chakra is handling their updates; a "half-rolling release". The core of the system gets updated on a loose schedule, although not set in stone to ensure stability.. this is for the guts of the OS itself. The applications on the other hand are a full rolling release, a couple days testing and they're out the door. Application itself may not be totally stable, but your OS will still do its thing regardless. Good way to walk the fine line between bleeding edge and stability, especially if you're the type who doesn't bother to read up on the updates beforehand and doesn't think about nasty surprises.. learned my lesson on that one with Arch a year or two back. Between that and their polished KDE, this one's my flavor of the month I think.

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Never really liked it on the desktop, doesn't feel right. I use it day in day out via SSH though, CLI love!

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If I'm not watching Netflix on my PC, I'm doing actual work on it to make money

I have no time or desire to be fiddling with Linux

Not to mention that I need Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Google and Bing ad management software to do what I need to do

Couple years ago when I tried Ubuntu I spent about 4 hours trying to get a brand new video card to run properly, and after hours of searching, researching, resetting, command lining and what not I gave up. I found Ubuntu to be polished though, much more so than hwat I remember Linux to be around 2003-2004

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I have to say raspberry pi and raspbian based off debian has taught me a lot about using linux, and turned me from a ubuntu-lover into a debian user. One thing I suggest with the pi is to force the /rootfs to a USB HDD formatted to EXT4. WOW performance boost!

boot pi, setup, pull SD and pop into your system.

format USB drive as EXT4, I enjoy gparted for this. add a swap of your ram size if you want.

next, do 'cp -a <rootfs partition from SD> <EXT4 USB HDD>'

this copies all files and attributes to the USB drives partition. attributes are very important here.

Edit the fat32-side file called config.txt file maybe? modify it to point to the SDA1 device. Right now it should be like /mnt/mcblk02 or /dev/mcblk02 something, change to /mnt/sda1. You can use dmesg to figure out how your pi assigned the drive.

put the USB drive and SD card back in and boot. pi should boot from SD and point to the HDD, which should boost performance at least 10x. You won't have blinky activity lights when in use, but the HDD activity light should be flickering.

I did a DD from the SD card, and got about 3MB/s throughput. With the USB drive I got around 35MB/s throughput.credit this guy here, and read his stuff. hugely informative. http://zeroset.wordpress.com/2012/10/03/move-an-existing-raspbian-installation-from-memory-sd-card-to-usb-flash-drive-stick/

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I personally like how Chakra is handling their updates; a "half-rolling release". The core of the system gets updated on a loose schedule, although not set in stone to ensure stability.. this is for the guts of the OS itself. The applications on the other hand are a full rolling release, a couple days testing and they're out the door. Application itself may not be totally stable, but your OS will still do its thing regardless. Good way to walk the fine line between bleeding edge and stability, especially if you're the type who doesn't bother to read up on the updates beforehand and doesn't think about nasty surprises.. learned my lesson on that one with Arch a year or two back. Between that and their polished KDE, this one's my flavor of the month I think.

I haven't heard of that distro before, but that does sound pretty cool. I'll have to check it out. It sounds roughly analogous to Debian Stable + backports, but with faster software releases and less userland testing. Do you know how they handle software that requires newer versions of libraries than is available in the repository? That is often an issue for Debian backports where too many required libraries are at an older version in the stable release so the software cannot be backported without a plethora of dependencies that may break other, unrelated software in Stable using the same libraries.

Disclaimer: In case it isn't obvious by now, I'm a heavy Debian user, and I'm by far more familiar with Debian's processes and procedures than any other distro. So I have a slight bias in that regard.

Edit: I just looked up Chakra. I actually have heard of it before, but I don't know too much about it. I see no mention of their update policy on their website (that is immediately obvious), but you intrigued me. Although I'm not generally a KDE fan, I'm going to try it.

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Edit: I just looked up Chakra. I actually have heard of it before, but I don't know too much about it. I see no mention of their update policy on their website (that is immediately obvious), but you intrigued me. Although I'm not generally a KDE fan, I'm going to try it.

Yea, used to be KDEMod for Arch then they turned into their own full distro. KDE 4's been impressing me lately, although that's also probably being "helped" by my general dislike with where Unity and Gnome have been going.. but I'm more of a fan of the "everything and the kitchen sink" desktop anyway, I hate it when stuff gets hidden/removed for no good reason. If I'm going to have to fiddle with it anyway, at least give me a crapton of options. I can understand the Debian bias, it's quite a solid source. Personally I came from the Unix and then BSD side, so originally Arch kind of lured me in with a more familiar setup.

http://chakra-linux....g_Release_Model

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there's no alternative to 3DSMAX

I think the latest version is cross platform but I could be thinking of another program.

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Yea, used to be KDEMod for Arch then they turned into their own full distro. KDE 4's been impressing me lately, although that's also probably being "helped" by my general dislike with where Unity and Gnome have been going.. but I'm more of a fan of the "everything and the kitchen sink" desktop anyway, I hate it when stuff gets hidden/removed for no good reason. If I'm going to have to fiddle with it anyway, at least give me a crapton of options. I can understand the Debian bias, it's quite a solid source. Personally I came from the Unix and then BSD side, so originally Arch kind of lured me in with a more familiar setup.

http://chakra-linux....g_Release_Model

i have to agree, i don't much care for what gnome has become, and i'm still very undecided about Unity, but it being very unoptimized puts me off

cinnamon has me interested the most lately

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Yes you should also mention the state of some Video codecs... that one would have to agree to be installed. this is what people also complain about.

Why won't X video play but it does in Windows-- Not realizing that When you agree to install Windows you also agree to those terms as well..

When you try to play a video in Totem whose codec is not installed, Totem asks if you want to install the codec and does that for you automatically.

That's something that Windows Media Player is supposed to do as well, but I've never had any success with that. It keeps searching for a while and always fails saying it didn't find the codec, forcing you to go and search, download and install them yourself manually.

Windows has a lot more proprietary codecs installed OOTB, but considering that all those are installed automatically on Linux when you try to play a video, and that beyond the bundled codecs it's actually easier to get them on Linux than on Windows, I'd say that you are better off just going with VLC or MPlayer on both platforms anyway.

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I tried Ubuntu again last night. My goal was to see if I could get GuildWars 2 running on it following a video posted on YouTube showing a 'how to'.

I fell at the first hurdle which was to install PlayOnLinux. The software is in the software centre but refuses to install due to dependencies I came across a post saying this is a x64 issue. After failing to get it working following forum posts I read I gave up and re-installed with a x86 install. It installed straight away.

I don't want to use a 32bit OS though so re-installed with x64 and will try again tonight to resolve the issue.

Sadly this though is the same story I have with Linux each time I try it. As much as its moved a hell of a lot over the years, and continues to do so I might add, it's still a ball ache for new comers to the OS when things don't work.

Ubuntu for me has done some amazing work for the Linux OS. For me all default desktop environments have been fugly. Ubuntu though is a decent looking OS out of the box. I can't say though I am happy with the Unity launcher and when you search for you installed apps it returns shopping results. To me this is simply another form of advertising.

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I just want to point out,

In no way is Linux trying to compete with Windows and vice-versa - it is applications tacked on which make the two systems have the capacity to fill in the same space. It is the Unity's, Gnomes, KDE's, which are applications that have the desire to either re-invent the wheel or compete directly in a GUI sense. When I download the stage3 tarball, build my kernel and install my boot loader - My Gentoo machine has very little comparison to my Windows 7 machine. (Of course then I added KDE4 to make my life easier -- then I start seeing commonalities.)

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A little off-topic here, but is there such a thing as "system restore" for Linux? You know, like Windows has. I'm asking because I do like to play with various Linux distros from time to time (not in a VM, in dual-boot) and there are moments when the system just goes crazy after a simple nvidia driver activation (missing buttons, textures, low res, etc.). So it would be easier to just restore the damn thing to a certain point in the past. :)

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Do yourself and everyone on Neowin a favour a delete your account please, I cannot for the love of god figure why you'd make such idiotic comments other than trying to look as if you know something. As for Linux, use it if you want to for what you want, just don't harp on and on and b*tch continuously, you aren't entitled to sqat..... jesus the level of ignorance on Neowin is starting to irritate me :crazy:

want me to hold you back? haha! some people do not understand its not about how pretty it looks its about the backend and that linux is just amazing... <3 my ubuntus and backtrack, laptops and servers <3 also its free... and awesome... making it double awesome

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Some people seem to use Linux as a kind of protest against Microsoft and capitalism. Windows has always been fine for me.

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Do yourself and everyone on Neowin a favour a delete your account please, I cannot for the love of god figure why you'd make such idiotic comments other than trying to look as if you know something. As for Linux, use it if you want to for what you want, just don't harp on and on and b*tch continuously, you aren't entitled to sqat..... jesus the level of ignorance on Neowin is starting to irritate me :crazy:

Yeah, I've been seeing more and more ridiculous comments like that, its getting pretty annoying.

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A little off-topic here, but is there such a thing as "system restore" for Linux? You know, like Windows has. I'm asking because I do like to play with various Linux distros from time to time (not in a VM, in dual-boot) and there are moments when the system just goes crazy after a simple nvidia driver activation (missing buttons, textures, low res, etc.). So it would be easier to just restore the damn thing to a certain point in the past. :)

You could use Clonezilla or something similar to perform a full image backup prior to making drastic changes.

As for installing proprietary graphics drivers, that's probably a bad idea. If you really need the proprietary driver, make sure you install it from the repository - absolutely NOT from NVIDIA's website! Read this thread for an example of why that's a bad idea and an explanation of how it should be done.

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proprietary drivers usually don't work from repo either.

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proprietary drivers usually don't work from repo either.

They work alright for most people. Of course you see people asking for help getting them to work on support forums. Can people please stop making silly claims?

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