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Mindovermaster

Linux, as a Whole

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I know it's said a million times, but lots of the problems people experience with Linux are down to hardware companies who don't provide drivers. For the record, I've never had tearing on Linux. And if I run Windows in a virtual machine in Linux, I still get no tearing. I think people blame Linux when it's the hardware companies. I actually have video drivers from AMD for my graphics card, so it works great.

Also, think about trying to run Windows on older hardware that's not supported by the hardware companies or Windows--it doesn't work properly and may not even install. That's the reality. OSX has the best of all worlds by controlling the hardware and being able to supply drivers for it.

I think also there is a lot of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) spread about Linux in general, deliberately or out of ignorance. Lots of the comments in this and other threads seem totally bizarre (perhaps they should have been posted to It's a Conspiracy! instead) and only designed to scare off people unfamiliar with Linux. But that doesn't bother me. What bothers me is that, when my sixteen-year-old cousin was installing Linux on her laptop, it took her virginity (yes, it claimed her maidenhood). This angered the family a lot and would never have happened if she's stuck with Windows. :/

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2. Android is as much linux as WinRT is windows 8. But then Linux people like to call android linux when it's suits them and say it isn't linux when that suits them better.

Get your facts straight, Android uses the Linux Kernel but it's not a 'pure' linux distro nor does it have many of the standard GNU libraries or even an X Window System. So, since native linux applications require one or both of these, none will run.. Android uses the Dalvik VM which only runs Apps coded with a Java language implementation that compiles down to Dalvik bytecode. Android may have several similarities with desktop distros (eg Android has a Terminal) but they're totally different. You're comparing a Kernel with Windows 8/RT, that doesn't make any sense.

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Linux IS the kernel. Ubuntu is Ubuntu, not Linux, Linux is the kernel in Ubuntu, like its he kernel in fedora and every other Linux distro.

Linux is NOT an OS, there is no "pure" Linux distro, as that would run nothing.

And actually I didn't compare anything with windows RT/windows 8. I said windows RT and windows 8 are completely different.

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What's this about ?

Capture.PNG

Read something about a touch OS ?

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So my laptop reinstalled to Min has been standing unused for a day, during the install I had the same annoying issue I had with Ubuntu, where when it asks to connect to a wireless network when I'm tryign to input the password in the box the installer uses I get a popup. no big deal I just put it in the popup instead. but seems a bit weird and bad design.

Well today when I opened it up, not only had the popup come up, which it tends to do at times, but on the taskbar, I had like 40 instances of the wireless network authentication required popup.... WTF.... why is this dialog even allowed to have multiple instances...

Even worse, the only way to get rid of each one is to either click cancel or connect (the x s about the same as cancel), and both options take quite a long time. by that I mean 12+ seconds from I click untill the dialog goes away so I can close the next one.

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So my laptop reinstalled to Min has been standing unused for a day, during the install I had the same annoying issue I had with Ubuntu, where when it asks to connect to a wireless network when I'm tryign to input the password in the box the installer uses I get a popup. no big deal I just put it in the popup instead. but seems a bit weird and bad design.

Well today when I opened it up, not only had the popup come up, which it tends to do at times, but on the taskbar, I had like 40 instances of the wireless network authentication required popup.... WTF.... why is this dialog even allowed to have multiple instances...

Even worse, the only way to get rid of each one is to either click cancel or connect (the x s about the same as cancel), and both options take quite a long time. by that I mean 12+ seconds from I click untill the dialog goes away so I can close the next one.

You've run into some kind of bug, that's certainly not normal behavior. I've installed ubuntu many times on multiple laptops and never seen anything like that happening during the install or after.

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Umm, I think you need to go into the Network Connections, under your wireless connection, go to edit, on the bottom of the window is "Available to all users", check it, save it. It will stop asking you for the keyring. I had this happen a few years ago.

If I understand you correctly..

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it didn't ask for the keyring, it asked for the network password.

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The wireless (WEP/WPA) password? It should remember that... :huh:

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It does remember it, but the box still pops up frequently. The major problem isn't that tough, it's that after a while if left alone you have 40 copies of a dialog box that should only be allowed to exist once.

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^

Microsoft tells us that they worked a long time on a small tiny part of the GUI to make it just right that you may never notice in your life.

I don't think you have that from any free Operating System.

It looks cool thus I put it there vs. here are some data (n = 127k) and some mathematical evidence and a thesis on how to position these buttons.

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^

Microsoft tells us that they worked a long time on a small tiny part of the GUI to make it just right that you may never notice in your life.

I don't think you have that from any free Operating System.

It looks cool thus I put it there vs. here are some data (n = 127k) and some mathematical evidence and a thesis on how to position these buttons.

LOL- You do realize that it took them a long time to put the close window on the right side. It was not until Windows 95a that it actually moved.

win101.gif

win203.gif

KDE_Beta3.png

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While Linux has improved considerably, it still has a long way to go. Driver support and installation is hit or miss. My brother and I were both trying to install Linux on our netbooks, he had a Toshiba, I had an LG. We couldn't find a single distro that would work for both of us. I could get openSuSE installed, but Fedora would hang. He could install Fedora, but openSuSE would abort the install looking for an optical drive (obviously there isn't one, it's a netbook). Any distro I do manage to get installed on any of the hardware I have always doesn't work in some fashion or other. I've had WiFi not work, sound not work, graphics card not work (no X for me), and so on. I haven't had a single experience that I could describe as just working, across multiple hardware. The best luck I ever had was Yellow Dog Linux on the PS3. I've been trying to make Linux work for me since 1999, and there has always been a crippling flaw, and every time I try giving it another shot, either it's the same flaw or a similar one.

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thats weird

i installed fedora no problem at all and i have no optical drive either

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^

Microsoft tells us that they worked a long time on a small tiny part of the GUI to make it just right that you may never notice in your life.

I don't think you have that from any free Operating System.

It looks cool thus I put it there vs. here are some data (n = 127k) and some mathematical evidence and a thesis on how to position these buttons.

That's because there are very little design guidelines when it comes to Linux software. That is what happens when there are no designers involved and software developers are given free reign to "design" as they see fit. What you had 15-20 years ago (from design standpoint) you still see today in Linux (or the so called "multi-platform") software. This creates two issues, one is outdated software look and feel, and more importantly, no consistency between one application to another. It is really apparent in distributions that do have clear design guidelines, and have software designed with them in mind. Take elementary OS. It is very influenced by Mac OS X design guidelines, and indeed software written with these design guidelines in mind look good and consistent. But then you run other Ubuntu software. Then even worse, you download something like OpenOffice.

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That's because there are very little design guidelines when it comes to Linux software. That is what happens when there are no designers involved and software developers are given free reign to "design" as they see fit. What you had 15-20 years ago (from design standpoint) you still see today in Linux (or the so called "multi-platform") software. This creates two issues, one is outdated software look and feel, and more importantly, no consistency between one application to another. It is really apparent in distributions that do have clear design guidelines, and have software designed with them in mind. Take elementary OS. It is very influenced by Mac OS X design guidelines, and indeed software written with these design guidelines in mind look good and consistent. But then you run other Ubuntu software. Then even worse, you download something like OpenOffice.

I think it depends on what you download. I mean there are plenty of windows apps that don't fit in with my W7. Sure they are for windows, but they don't follow normal guidelines.

On my Linux however, everything matches. That's because I stick with sets of programs made by the same companies. Ie) I use all the Gnome tools for management (Gnautillus, Tweak-Tool, Gedit, etc) With a black GTK Theme and Faence Icons that make it all feel like it's one system.

I can do the same with Windows. It's up to you the user to control what looks good and what doesn't regardless of the OS.

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If Valve can get games to Linux (with a possible Steam console) I will switch to Linux 100%.

The ONLY reason I still use Windows is because of games.

(well ok, and foobar2000 too ;) )

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If Valve can get games to Linux (with a possible Steam console) I will switch to Linux 100%.

The ONLY reason I still use Windows is because of games.

(well ok, and foobar2000 too ;) )

I wonder how long it will take before people actually realize that steam on linux doesn't mean steam games on linux.

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I wonder how long it will take before people actually realize that steam on linux doesn't mean steam games on linux.

You are making assumptions. I'm well aware of the situation. It's not like I want the whole library tomorrow. If I can get many games on Linux in 5 years, then I will have switched in 5 years.

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I wonder how long it will take before people actually realize that steam on linux doesn't mean steam games on linux.

Games are games though. I don't care if I don't get HL2 on Linux. But who's to say HL3 (if or when it comes out) won't be on Linux. Who's to say valve won't re-release games? The point isn't having steam games, the point is having a big name like steam working on linux period.

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You are making assumptions.

It's a fair assumption though; OSX has a much bigger presence than Linux at the moment, and Steam didn't make much of a dent there.

But who's to say HL3 (if or when it comes out) won't be on Linux.

It would be a huge mistake if it wasn't available for Linux at release, and I agree, if it ever sees the light of day, starting to lose faith on that one myself. Bigger trick is going to be convincing all the other developers to putting cash/resources into Linux ports. Not saying they won't, but it's probably going to be an uphill battle, see OSX above.

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the thing is, while Valve might release their games, you're not going to see EA, Activision, Ubisoft and the other big names throwing millions into linux ports of games, for such a low market. Remember even if you calculate the linux users as 1% of the computer market, sure that is a lot of computers. BUT, you also have to factor in that linux users today, in general are not the same as windows users. The vast majority of linux users are geekier people with no interest in games at all, another large percentage of linux users are family members who got linux put on their old computer by the family geek to save money or keep old hardware running securely.

This makes the linux market very un-attractive to game developers, it ha slow marketshare, and even those who use it in general has no interest in games. They'll simply never recoup the money, and they're not willing to throw money away to make linux a more viable alternative to gamers, they don't care what platform people play on, in fact it's better for them if all gamers stay on windows so they don't have to develop for another platform.

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It's a fair assumption though; OSX has a much bigger presence than Linux at the moment, and Steam didn't make much of a dent there.

Not at all. That is like comparing an Apple and Orange. Apple does not really promote gaming on the desktop. They are focused on the mobile segment, where they are doing very well. If Valve would create a Linux-based console, we would have a company (probably much more than one) that promotes it and gaming on Linux. If it's successful or not, that is another question.

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Not at all. That is like comparing an Apple and Orange. Apple does not really promote gaming on the desktop. They are focused on the mobile segment, where they are doing very well. If Valve would create a Linux-based console, we would have a company (probably much more than one) that promotes it and gaming on Linux. If it's successful or not, that is another question.

Again, see my previous post. The main problem isn't making a console, they're making a linux computer that can run steam. this looses the unified architecture advantages of consoles, and wouldn't interest developers a whole lot, especially with 3 existing powerful consoles on the market with a unified architecture. they basically end up in the same trap I already described, no developer interest, to costly for the developers to see a return or enough of a return.

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Again, see my previous post. The main problem isn't making a console, they're making a linux computer that can run steam. this looses the unified architecture advantages of consoles, and wouldn't interest developers a whole lot, especially with 3 existing powerful consoles on the market with a unified architecture. they basically end up in the same trap I already described, no developer interest, to costly for the developers to see a return or enough of a return.

"Again" ?

Also, you are just doing a lot of guessing. It's not possible to predict. If Valve awes the audience they can for sure be successful. And as with your previous answer to my post you are just doing a lot of own assumptions.

Windows to Linux ports are cheaper and easier than 360 to Windows ports, not at all about "big names throwing millions into linux ports of games" which is a kind of an uneducated statement.

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