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#196 Max Norris

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 15:42

You are making assumptions.

It's a fair assumption though; OSX has a much bigger presence than Linux at the moment, and Steam didn't make much of a dent there.

But who's to say HL3 (if or when it comes out) won't be on Linux.

It would be a huge mistake if it wasn't available for Linux at release, and I agree, if it ever sees the light of day, starting to lose faith on that one myself. Bigger trick is going to be convincing all the other developers to putting cash/resources into Linux ports. Not saying they won't, but it's probably going to be an uphill battle, see OSX above.


#197 HawkMan

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 15:44

the thing is, while Valve might release their games, you're not going to see EA, Activision, Ubisoft and the other big names throwing millions into linux ports of games, for such a low market. Remember even if you calculate the linux users as 1% of the computer market, sure that is a lot of computers. BUT, you also have to factor in that linux users today, in general are not the same as windows users. The vast majority of linux users are geekier people with no interest in games at all, another large percentage of linux users are family members who got linux put on their old computer by the family geek to save money or keep old hardware running securely.

This makes the linux market very un-attractive to game developers, it ha slow marketshare, and even those who use it in general has no interest in games. They'll simply never recoup the money, and they're not willing to throw money away to make linux a more viable alternative to gamers, they don't care what platform people play on, in fact it's better for them if all gamers stay on windows so they don't have to develop for another platform.

#198 Buio

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 15:56

It's a fair assumption though; OSX has a much bigger presence than Linux at the moment, and Steam didn't make much of a dent there.

Not at all. That is like comparing an Apple and Orange. Apple does not really promote gaming on the desktop. They are focused on the mobile segment, where they are doing very well. If Valve would create a Linux-based console, we would have a company (probably much more than one) that promotes it and gaming on Linux. If it's successful or not, that is another question.

#199 HawkMan

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 16:03

Not at all. That is like comparing an Apple and Orange. Apple does not really promote gaming on the desktop. They are focused on the mobile segment, where they are doing very well. If Valve would create a Linux-based console, we would have a company (probably much more than one) that promotes it and gaming on Linux. If it's successful or not, that is another question.


Again, see my previous post. The main problem isn't making a console, they're making a linux computer that can run steam. this looses the unified architecture advantages of consoles, and wouldn't interest developers a whole lot, especially with 3 existing powerful consoles on the market with a unified architecture. they basically end up in the same trap I already described, no developer interest, to costly for the developers to see a return or enough of a return.

#200 Buio

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 16:38

Again, see my previous post. The main problem isn't making a console, they're making a linux computer that can run steam. this looses the unified architecture advantages of consoles, and wouldn't interest developers a whole lot, especially with 3 existing powerful consoles on the market with a unified architecture. they basically end up in the same trap I already described, no developer interest, to costly for the developers to see a return or enough of a return.


"Again" ?

Also, you are just doing a lot of guessing. It's not possible to predict. If Valve awes the audience they can for sure be successful. And as with your previous answer to my post you are just doing a lot of own assumptions.

Windows to Linux ports are cheaper and easier than 360 to Windows ports, not at all about "big names throwing millions into linux ports of games" which is a kind of an uneducated statement.

#201 HawkMan

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 17:13

Windows to Linux ports are cheaper and easier than 360 to Windows ports, not at all about "big names throwing millions into linux ports of games" which is a kind of an uneducated statement.


Not actually true, and you're talking a lot of money in any case.

#202 ArialBlue

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 17:22

HL3 on Linux? That would devalue the title from 'epic' to 'casual'

#203 ViperAFK

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 17:59

Not actually true, and you're talking a lot of money in any case.


I recall reading an article a little while back where a developer that's very experienced in porting windows games to linux said its actually fairly cheap to do and can be done by a very small team. I'd wager it is much easier than a 360 to windows port, because they aren't having to port between two totally different architectures.

DIrextx > opengl isn't as huge of a deal, afiak valve just uses some sort of shim to translate directx calls to opengl. There's also game engines that make multiplatform development very easy, for example with the unity engine the game can easily be exported to multiple platforms, such as linux.

I guess if the developer tries to port games in the most stupid and inefficient way possible, then yeah it may be expensive, but if done right it can be done without massive costs...

Your posts seem to be exceedingly filled with FUD.

EDIT: Found the article (interview): http://cheerfulghost...thumb/posts/771

One of the major reasons publishers and developers give for not releasing a Linux version of their games is that the demand doesn't justify the extra development cost. Having been involved in this process numerous times to do this very thing, what do you think about this stance?
I think it's short-sighted. A one-man team--me--can take a completed game and port it to Linux. Usually this is pretty fast and cheap.

If they had concerned themselves with portability right from the start, there would be no problem at all. Maybe have a single Linux (or Mac, or whatever) developer on the team, who would be responsible for that platform but otherwise is just building the game the same as everyone else. No doubt some of their time would be spent on platform-specific issues, but this cost would be amortized into the project. Also, as they find bugs that are exposed through cross-platform development (which are otherwise hidden until your customers find them for you), it's possible you save time and money.




Blizzard has a handful of Mac developers that maintain all their titles in a similar fashion. It's an insanely small portion of their devteam, and it's clearly been profitable for them.



#204 HawkMan

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 18:16

Actually, DX<->OGL is the easiest part of porting, it may as well not count. but there's significantly more than just changing between DX and OGL that goes into porting.

And again, you still forgetting that atm there's s few linux users interested in gaming, especially ones that don't have another gaming device they prefer, that there's no reason for devs to port games, and as I said, game devs have no interest in porting games to promote another platform, it's not their job, and in the end it would just add on to their costs. even with a small team doing the job, they would actually have to hire that small team to do the job. They would rather not.

the only exception here is Gabe and Valve, and that's because Gabe has an agenda, and he's putting his own personal agenda ahead of the companies interests. of course the linux camp will call him a pioneer and a fighter for freedom and all that. Stock holders would rather call him a nutcase wasting their money for no good reason :)

#205 ViperAFK

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 18:40

Actually, DX<->OGL is the easiest part of porting, it may as well not count. but there's significantly more than just changing between DX and OGL that goes into porting.

And again, you still forgetting that atm there's s few linux users interested in gaming, especially ones that don't have another gaming device they prefer, that there's no reason for devs to port games, and as I said, game devs have no interest in porting games to promote another platform, it's not their job, and in the end it would just add on to their costs. even with a small team doing the job, they would actually have to hire that small team to do the job. They would rather not.

the only exception here is Gabe and Valve, and that's because Gabe has an agenda, and he's putting his own personal agenda ahead of the companies interests. of course the linux camp will call him a pioneer and a fighter for freedom and all that. Stock holders would rather call him a nutcase wasting their money for no good reason :)


You are making wild speculations that "no one that runs linux is interested in gaming". So far that's proven to be untrue. Devs do have interest in porting to linux because it can potentially make a profit. For example the humble indie bundle games sold quite well on linux. There are plenty of linux users interested in games and they are willing to pay for games.

#206 McKay

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 19:00

I stopped using Linux when I encountered problems, I turned to Linux forums for help and they started telling me to perform things in Terminal, I explained I didn't know what to type for those things and asked for specific commands, I was effectively laughed out the forum after being told

"If you don't know how to use the Terminal, you don't deserve to use Linux"

#207 ViperAFK

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 19:05

I stopped using Linux when I encountered problems, I turned to Linux forums for help and they started telling me to perform things in Terminal, I explained I didn't know what to type for those things and asked for specific commands, I was effectively laughed out the forum after being told

"If you don't know how to use the Terminal, you don't deserve to use Linux"


There are plenty of friendly linux communities, I don't know where you found those douchebags but thats definitely not the norm for communities of distros targeted at being userfriendly like ubuntu or mint. Generally when someone tells you to do something in the terminal they will paste the command for you... thats why when asking for help about linux people often have you run terminal commands, not necessarily because you have to use the terminal for said task, but because its easier to just have someone copy/paste command(s) then to tell them to "go here, go here, click this, click that" etc...

#208 firey

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 20:10

There are plenty of friendly linux communities, I don't know where you found those douchebags but thats definitely not the norm for communities of distros targeted at being userfriendly like ubuntu or mint. Generally when someone tells you to do something in the terminal they will paste the command for you... thats why when asking for help about linux people often have you run terminal commands, not necessarily because you have to use the terminal for said task, but because its easier to just have someone copy/paste command(s) then to tell them to "go here, go here, click this, click that" etc...


I agree with this 100x. I've had issues where I will need to do something, a quick google search ends with a forum where people have my exact problem, and there is a post like this:

Run commandX
Should output Y
Once you have the Y, if you type commandA fileA/fileb.conf it should show a file like: R
Now at line 124 you will see a line that looks like X, if you comment that (Press i and type #) then press Z twice
Now, run this command to restart the service
Type commandX and it should look like this,
And you are good to go.


Instead of:

Click this, and scroll through the list till you find this
Disable this option, and try it
If it doesn't work, find out what the exact error message you see is
Then download the file based on the error
You may need to install X,Y,Z in order for it to run though
Oh, and make sure you run the file as admin.
Now that that is done, if you launch the program it should work.

#209 migo

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 20:20

There are plenty of friendly linux communities, I don't know where you found those douchebags but thats definitely not the norm for communities of distros targeted at being userfriendly like ubuntu or mint. Generally when someone tells you to do something in the terminal they will paste the command for you... thats why when asking for help about linux people often have you run terminal commands, not necessarily because you have to use the terminal for said task, but because its easier to just have someone copy/paste command(s) then to tell them to "go here, go here, click this, click that" etc...


No, that actually is the norm. I've found a few non-douchey Linux communities, but they're the exception rather than the rule, and that's because I really want to like Linux that I've continued looking past all the crap ones.

#210 ViperAFK

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 20:25

No, that actually is the norm. I've found a few non-douchey Linux communities, but they're the exception rather than the rule, and that's because I really want to like Linux that I've continued looking past all the crap ones.


No, its not, unless you are spending all your time on the arch or gentoo forums