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Linux, as a Whole


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#31 Jason S.

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 18:40

i just cant stand Linux b/c you have to use the command line to do anything with it. perhaps the Distros have evolved since a few years ago when i was using Fedora and Ubuntu. It takes me 20x longer to find or do something in Linux than Windows. i find myself constantly in linux forums looking for the stupid 15 commands i have to type to find the buried conf file. Then you have to open your cmd line file editor and manually mod it. why? why would anyone have to do this in 2012?

then there's the perpetual issue of installing software. sure, the GET stuff is convenient, but not when you have to download a .tar.gz file from a website. good luck installing it! you have to unzip, run 'make /install' and watch the command line (once again) go to work. why cant i just download an exe, double click it and click install from a nice GUI?

Then people say that Windows has too many patches. in my experience, Ubuntu had massive amounts of patches, daily.

<exaggeration> Then i love the people that suggest using Linux-based equivalent software. So Ubuntu doesnt run Office like Windows does. Just use kOffice, they say! boy, that's fun until it wont open any docx files </exaggeration>


#32 rfirth

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 18:48

Everything just... works. While I had a few problems along the way, I broke through them. Help is there, all you need to do is look for it.


Way to immediately contradict yourself.

And if you think everything just works, you obviously haven't attempted an upgrade. Last time I attempted an upgrade on Ubuntu (last year), it borked everything up. It still works, but the package manager on my install is now shot to hell. Add in me having to compile and install my wireless drivers manually on the command line only just last month and my visit to Linux driver hell trying to help someone else with their graphics driver and it's honestly not a system I can recommend to the general public. I can manage it, and it's great when it works, but... there are giant holes you can very easily fall in and be completely unsupported.

#33 redvamp128

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 18:49

i just cant stand Linux b/c you have to use the command line to do anything with it. perhaps the Distros have evolved since a few years ago when i was using Fedora and Ubuntu. It takes me 20x longer to find or do something in Linux than Windows. i find myself constantly in linux forums looking for the stupid 15 commands i have to type to find the buried conf file. Then you have to open your cmd line file editor and manually mod it. why? why would anyone have to do this in 2012?

then there's the perpetual issue of installing software. sure, the GET stuff is convenient, but not when you have to download a .tar.gz file from a website. good luck installing it! you have to unzip, run 'make /install' and watch the command line (once again) go to work. why cant i just download an exe, double click it and click install from a nice GUI?

Then people say that Windows has too many patches. in my experience, Ubuntu had massive amounts of patches, daily.

<exaggeration> Then i love the people that suggest using Linux-based equivalent software. So Ubuntu doesnt run Office like Windows does. Just use kOffice, they say! boy, that's fun until it wont open any docx files </exaggeration>


That is the point-- YOU DON"T have to run a single command line with the Software Center or the Package Manager.

(the point is that like I said - instead of saying open this... click that... change one drop down a menu.... save then go somewhere else and click then reboot you do have the option unlike windows to copy and paste one command)


Most things these days you don't have to "GET" just a simple click in the Package Manager.....

So once again perpetuating what Linux was in the past.

Have you ever just clicked on a .deb file??? They have them out now you know that work just like an exe -- only thing is that you need to put your password because Linux by default blocks execution of a file that did not originate from the computer to minimize the dangers.

I know for example I can go to teamviewer site download one teamviewer.deb file then click and run it-- where it opens up the software center and asks me for a password.. then it will also download the libraries need for the program to run --- Without a command Line.

#34 airedwin

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 18:50

Ya. I don't see how you can say "it just works" but then say "Help is there, all you need to do is look for it."

Literally, windows "just works". I install my game, it works. I don't need to look for updated drivers, or install an emulator, or whatever else. That is what "it just works" means.

#35 redvamp128

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 18:59

Way to immediately contradict yourself.

And if you think everything just works, you obviously haven't attempted an upgrade. Last time I attempted an upgrade on Ubuntu (last year), it borked everything up. It still works, but the package manager on my install is now shot to hell. Add in me having to compile and install my wireless drivers manually on the command line only just last month and my visit to Linux driver hell trying to help someone else with their graphics driver and it's honestly not a system I can recommend to the general public. I can manage it, and it's great when it works, but... there are giant holes you can very easily fall in and be completely unsupported.


You did not read the update issues -- where it suggests - hardwired for upgrades (specifically says There are known failures of some wireless devices and it is recommended to hard-wire for upgrades)

that way it would download the new packages for the devices

Before I upgraded my system I read it and hardwired -- sounds like you had the Broadcom wireless issue then ...BCM43 -60 chipset issue.

Software center not working?? That is strange-- I know there were a few that I had to re-enable them because the upgrade told me that it would disable them. Some you need to add the new Key for the new distribution for them to work. Also by default things like mediabuntu as well as closed driver support is turned off during an upgrade (something it said it would when you first start an upgrade- it said you may have to re-enable repositories)

But then again --
Same is true about 90% of the time when you upgrade WIindows... but then again no complaint there.

You tell me how many upgrades with Windows that you did not have to reinstall things such as video drivers or wireless devices.

Nixie Pixel. LOL!


That was before she let her hair grow and dyed it red.

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#36 +Karl L.

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 19:01

i just cant stand Linux b/c you have to use the command line to do anything with it. perhaps the Distros have evolved since a few years ago when i was using Fedora and Ubuntu. It takes me 20x longer to find or do something in Linux than Windows. i find myself constantly in linux forums looking for the stupid 15 commands i have to type to find the buried conf file. Then you have to open your cmd line file editor and manually mod it. why? why would anyone have to do this in 2012?


While it is true that the Linux culture leans more toward CLI applications with GUI as an afterthought, I think that is an acute advantage not a disadvantage. Ken Thompson summarized the UNIX philosophy in the quote, "Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface." It is fundamentally different from Microsoft's philosophy, but it has proven its worth. In fact, the thing I miss the most when I use Windows is the power of the command-line. Sure, Windows has a command-line, but its crippled compared to even a basic UNIX shell with simple core utilities (such as BusyBox). Microsoft has tried to remedy this in recent years with PowerShell, and while its certainly a step in the right direction, its still missing much of the power of BASH with GNU Core Utilities.

#37 +Yorak

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 19:02

i just cant stand Linux b/c you have to use the command line to do anything with it. perhaps the Distros have evolved since a few years ago when i was using Fedora and Ubuntu. It takes me 20x longer to find or do something in Linux than Windows. i find myself constantly in linux forums looking for the stupid 15 commands i have to type to find the buried conf file. Then you have to open your cmd line file editor and manually mod it. why? why would anyone have to do this in 2012?

then there's the perpetual issue of installing software. sure, the GET stuff is convenient, but not when you have to download a .tar.gz file from a website. good luck installing it! you have to unzip, run 'make /install' and watch the command line (once again) go to work. why cant i just download an exe, double click it and click install from a nice GUI?

Then people say that Windows has too many patches. in my experience, Ubuntu had massive amounts of patches, daily.

<exaggeration> Then i love the people that suggest using Linux-based equivalent software. So Ubuntu doesnt run Office like Windows does. Just use kOffice, they say! boy, that's fun until it wont open any docx files </exaggeration>


Oh wow...

First of all, you just admitted that you have not tried Linux in a few years. Even 3-4 years ago there were .deb and .rpm packages for most software. Very rarely did you have to compile from a tar.gz or otherwise. The last handful of releases of Ubuntu, Fedora, openSUSE, etc. can work just fine without ever touching a terminal window. Especially in Ubuntu, there are programs for everything imaginable. Give me an example of when you may have to do this in 2012 with Ubuntu. With other more advanced distros, sure. I use Arch and I know there is some terminal work to accomplish.

I am not sure about the mainstream distros, but I cannot imagine they have more patches than Windows has. Some small updates, sure. If you are not on a dial-up connection, what is horrible about a Software Center upgrading your packages for a moment in the background?

No, Ubuntu does not run a native Microsoft Office. I have never used KOffice that I can recall, but you can simply install LibreOffice. It opens .docx files with no issue. Seriously man, you should at least use a product within the last five years before you say how horrible it is. Things change.

#38 f0rk_b0mb

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 19:11

Wow Tyler. That sounds like something you need to see a doctor about. (Sorry, these are the words my eyes picked out first. So I ran with it,couldn't resist.)


:p LOL! I'll pencil that into my schedule ASAP.

#39 Nothing Here

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 19:21

:p LOL! I'll pencil that into my schedule ASAP.


I would think so. Sounds a mite terrible. :rofl:

#40 f0rk_b0mb

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 19:22

Admittedly, X is a pain to work with. It was a great idea when System V was king in the early days of computing, but has slowly evolved into a nightmare. That's why toolkits such as GTK+ and Qt were created: to make development of GUI applications on top of X11 less painful. Wayland certainly has potential, and is backed by many of the current X11 developers. The video you linked to is quite old, however, and doesn't represent the current state of the project. Take a look at Wayland releases page for a more up-to-date feature set. In particular, read the release announcements for each release.


Yup, X needs to go. Thanks for the link to the website. I read some of the release notes and flipped through the screenshots. Looks nice--the fonts are so buttery smooth compared to what we have now. Off hand, do you have a link to a current video demo/keynote? Thanks! :)

#41 soldier1st

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 19:30

Linux is fun for geeking about in, but its a royal PITA to use full time, Windows is easy and works fine without having to trail through endless forums looking for a way to make it do the simplest of tasks

I like Linux, but not for a main OS on my main PC, I have it dual booted on my laptop and have never booted into it more than twice since I installed it


Sounds like Linux isn't meant for you then. If you give it time, then perhaps you would like it. When i get my new pc it will be Linux only.

#42 +Karl L.

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 19:41

Yup, X needs to go. Thanks for the link to the website. I read some of the release notes and flipped through the screenshots. Looks nice--the fonts are so buttery smooth compared to what we have now. Off hand, do you have a link to a current video demo/keynote? Thanks! :)


The most recent Wayland demo I can find is this one from Phoronix. Unfortunately, while it demonstrates the general quality and smoothness of Wayland running as the sole display server, it doesn't demonstrate most of Wayland's more advanced capabilities. Alternatively, this demo shows Wayland 1.0 and more of its advanced features, but its running in an X11 window rather than as the primary display server.

#43 Detection

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 20:03

Sounds like Linux isn't meant for you then. If you give it time, then perhaps you would like it. When i get my new pc it will be Linux only.


I do like it, just not for my main OS :)

#44 f0rk_b0mb

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 20:06

The most recent Wayland demo I can find is this one from Phoronix. Unfortunately, while it demonstrates the general quality and smoothness of Wayland running as the sole display server, it doesn't demonstrate most of Wayland's more advanced capabilities. Alternatively, this demo shows Wayland 1.0 and more of its advanced features, but its running in an X11 window rather than as the primary display server.


Wow. Thank you. That looks awesome. They've made a ton of improvements.

#45 OP Mindovermaster

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 20:32

The problem with preaching Linux is that, for--what, 15+ years?--a long ass time, it's been the exact same mantra. For 15+ years, Linux, "with some work", could "do anything Windows can, and more". And for 15+ years, the claim has meant nothing to 99% of the ears its fallen on.

The same story that failed a thousand times isn't going to suddenly work. There's a reason why Linux is only interesting when people don't know it's there (Android).

It's cool that you're having a good time, but, you know, FYI, your attitude will never go further than preaching to the choir.


So my opinion is now law? Interesting.



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