Jump to content



Photo

Linux, as a Whole


  • Please log in to reply
333 replies to this topic

#91 nub

nub

    Neowinian Senior

  • Joined: 19-November 06
  • Location: Amerika

Posted 22 December 2012 - 05:50

i just cant stand Linux b/c you have to use the command line to do anything with it. perhaps the Distros have evolved since a few years ago when i was using Fedora and Ubuntu. It takes me 20x longer to find or do something in Linux than Windows. i find myself constantly in linux forums looking for the stupid 15 commands i have to type to find the buried conf file. Then you have to open your cmd line file editor and manually mod it. why? why would anyone have to do this in 2012?

then there's the perpetual issue of installing software. sure, the GET stuff is convenient, but not when you have to download a .tar.gz file from a website. good luck installing it! you have to unzip, run 'make /install' and watch the command line (once again) go to work. why cant i just download an exe, double click it and click install from a nice GUI?


I think you summed it up pretty good.


#92 Yogurtmaster

Yogurtmaster

    Neowinian

  • Tech Issues Solved: 1
  • Joined: 18-February 12

Posted 22 December 2012 - 05:55

Hey guys for once can we not do the usual Windows VS Linux? That is shallow thinking.

I use both and I like both and I see nothing wrong with using both.

I have been meaning to try Elementary OS, maybe over Christmas and New Years I will install it in my VM and check it out. I like trying new things.

I did check out a video on the new Ubuntu language to build Apps, "Quickly" is the name of the language/app builder. I did not know it was mainly built in python and used the tool builder like Visual Basic (can't remember the name of the tool), it's okay, but nothing that great to write home about.

#93 Yogurtmaster

Yogurtmaster

    Neowinian

  • Tech Issues Solved: 1
  • Joined: 18-February 12

Posted 22 December 2012 - 06:00

Yes you may say that but with Linux it is free...

Even the "Free" Putty says if you use it for a Business then you have to pay a fee to use it.
Pay a licence fee and if you are using one in a business and not paying a fee than you could be sued.

That is the point -- most are Free for home use.
I think that is what the other people were trying to say.


So, who is going to check this? The FBI.... That was like Netscape saying oh only use this for home use don't use it for business and how many used it for business without paying? I would guesstimate a lot.

#94 ingramator

ingramator

    Hacker

  • Joined: 04-July 12
  • OS: Windows 7/8, OSX 10.8, Linux/UNIX/BSD
  • Phone: Lumia 920, iPhone 5, GS3

Posted 22 December 2012 - 06:21

So, who is going to check this? The FBI.... That was like Netscape saying oh only use this for home use don't use it for business and how many used it for business without paying? I would guesstimate a lot.


Hahaha true but for the record you can use PuTTY free of charge for personal AND commercial usage with absolutely no limitations whatsoever, that guy is just trying to spread FUD. As many people have said, if you use Linux, you're going to have to hit up terminal at least daily. When I'm on Linux, the terminal never closes. The thing with Linux is that it was never designed to handle a GUI, this is one of its biggest shortcomings. Windows and the NT kernel (OSX as well to agree) have kernels built for a mouse/keyboard/digitiser to interact directly with a GUI object. Linux has it so your mouse interacts with the kernel which is interacting with code, the GUI being a layer above this. There are many extra layers in Linux which cause it to be bogged down whenever trying to do anything with graphics. As I said before, I have every linux distro know to man on HDDs and Live CD/DVDs but not for getting real work done (only pentesting/hacking). Windows works, looks good and is easy to do things even when you have no idea what's going on. Other things that make it unstoppable: software support, hardware support, the entire network/graphics/sound/IO stack, GPU accelerated tasks such as WDDM and RDP, user/noob friendly whilst still retaining full power user functionality over the OS through CMD and PowerShell. The list just keeps going.

#95 farmeunit

farmeunit

    The other white meat.

  • Tech Issues Solved: 3
  • Joined: 05-May 03
  • Location: Branson, MO USA

Posted 22 December 2012 - 06:53

Why use SSH on Windows? Really, we have evolved, we use the GUI, we have Remote Desktop.


Apparently you've never heard of PowerShell and all the CLI stuff you need to do with AD. There are MANY tasks that that don't have a GUI for. Even with Remote Desktop, you still need to use the CLI, why not just do it remotely?

For the people talking about hardware support, Linux actually has more out of the box than Windows.

As for the package management I can update EVERY program on the system at once.

I totally agree it's not for everyone, but why do these threads always become a bitch session. If you're just going to put something down, don't post. You're not adding to a discussion at that point. Just move on and troll another thread. Some people have valid points, but they're also adding to the discussion, not turning into crap.

#96 redvamp128

redvamp128

    Neowinian Senior

  • Joined: 06-October 01

Posted 22 December 2012 - 17:43

Hahaha true but for the record you can use PuTTY free of charge for personal AND commercial usage with absolutely no limitations whatsoever, that guy is just trying to spread FUD. As many people have said, if you use Linux, you're going to have to hit up terminal at least daily. When I'm on Linux, the terminal never closes. The thing with Linux is that it was never designed to handle a GUI, this is one of its biggest shortcomings. Windows and the NT kernel (OSX as well to agree) have kernels built for a mouse/keyboard/digitiser to interact directly with a GUI object. Linux has it so your mouse interacts with the kernel which is interacting with code, the GUI being a layer above this. There are many extra layers in Linux which cause it to be bogged down whenever trying to do anything with graphics. As I said before, I have every linux distro know to man on HDDs and Live CD/DVDs but not for getting real work done (only pentesting/hacking). Windows works, looks good and is easy to do things even when you have no idea what's going on. Other things that make it unstoppable: software support, hardware support, the entire network/graphics/sound/IO stack, GPU accelerated tasks such as WDDM and RDP, user/noob friendly whilst still retaining full power user functionality over the OS through CMD and PowerShell. The list just keeps going.


I was not spreading FUD there are many programs that I run into in business that clearly state when starting up. Free for Home use and when you agree to the terms of use it states that you must pay a licence fee to use otherwise.

Okay then why did one of the people I work with have to Buy it for the Iphone then ?? And also had to pay extra to use it for business then??

Normal single server connection usage was 4.99$ for the application for home use with a 5$ business licence to connect to multiple machines.


The point is - software such as Spybot Search and Destroy is free for personal usage, so is ccleaner, and even Malewarebytes. But for corporate use they require the purchase of a licence.
Software in linux is freely distributed with no limitations. The only charges for distributions is with the provided tech support.

That is the point and I am getting tiered of getting accused of spreading FUD... when all I did was try to explain why someone else suggested something. If you would have read my posts you would have realized that instead of just reading the latter.
And yes I did state Putty was free for personal use -- I did not know they changed the terms for I have not used it since 2002.

Putty for linux/unix has always been free for business use but the Windows version has not always been which really does not matter now since it is free now.

What is it with Linux crybabies not being able to stand criticism? "If you're just going to put something down, don't post." :rolleyes: Oh I see, so basically you want to hear opinion that only suits your world view. How about you type a bunch of text in notepad and stare at it. That would be exactly what you want. :rolleyes: Why is it that anything Linux zealots don't agree with is considered trolling or crap? :rolleyes:


No actually what is happening is that people (not saying you) are still thinking that Linux is like the old command line which it is not. That would be like me saying -- Oh that windows it uses tree commands and looks like this:

Posted Image

Which is what people are doing for Linux. Instead of trying it again.. Oh I tried it 5 years ago and it was nothing but command line and was not for me. Which is brought up over and over again.

that is why they attack peoples opinions.

#97 MFH

MFH

    RAII fanatic

  • Joined: 24-June 10

Posted 22 December 2012 - 17:55

I was not spreading FUD there are many programs that I run into in business that clearly state when starting up.

You claimed that PuTTY is not free of charge for commercial use, that's exactly spreading fud as PuTTY is licensed under the MIT license...

#98 redvamp128

redvamp128

    Neowinian Senior

  • Joined: 06-October 01

Posted 22 December 2012 - 18:03

You claimed that PuTTY is not free of charge for commercial use, that's exactly spreading fud as PuTTY is licensed under the MIT license...


The unix/linux version is and always has been free.. the Windows implementation has not always been free

The Windows version did not fall under the MIT license since it did not use the same code.

But I have not used it for Windows since 2002 where it was a nominal please donate then is now free so that does not matter now.

It has since been released so it will be included under those terms to be free to use by anyone and anywhere.

But then again-- I made an assumption based on MY usage and I was proved wrong. Just as if people would try Linux again will be surprised instead of saying well I tried it 3 years ago.

You see I paid the fee to use that program back then but now there is no fee and it is free. Where I made the assumption it was still pay for business use which is what people are doing for linux. Making the assumption that one will have to use command line... which one does not. That was the linux of yesterday..

#99 @Leo

@Leo

    Under Derp Patrol

  • Joined: 06-June 10
  • Location: /dev/null
  • OS: OS X 10.8.2; Windows 8 Enterprise
  • Phone: iPhone 4S

Posted 22 December 2012 - 18:36

No actually what is happening is that people (not saying you) are still thinking that Linux is like the old command line which it is not. That would be like me saying -- Oh that windows it uses tree commands and looks like this:

<<IMAGE>>

Which is what people are doing for Linux. Instead of trying it again.. Oh I tried it 5 years ago and it was nothing but command line and was not for me. Which is brought up over and over again.

that is why they attack peoples opinions.

I agree that uninformed criticism is annoying, but this was not the case for the most part in this thread, yet you have zealots popping their forehead veins whenever someone posts something they don't like. Grow up people, people are entitled to post whatever they like as they see fit.

#100 cork1958

cork1958

    Neowinian

  • Tech Issues Solved: 2
  • Joined: 04-October 02

Posted 22 December 2012 - 18:49

I've played with Linux often enough, on and off, and have used it for good stretches of time, but I always find myself back on Windows.

Nothing really wrong with it, and I even think graphics seem to look better under than Windows. Used to be my excuse for not switching was no support for the 2 old scanners I had, but don't use those anymore and the 2 I currently have do work in Linux.

I'm about due for another go round of it though, now that you mention it! I usually use Zenwak, http://zenwalk.org/ myself. It has EVERYTHING work out of the box way better than Ubuntu also!!

#101 MFH

MFH

    RAII fanatic

  • Joined: 24-June 10

Posted 22 December 2012 - 19:30

The Windows version did not fall under the MIT license since it did not use the same code.

Still FUD, as the Windows version is the original one and has been licensed under MIT for ages...

#102 Barney T.

Barney T.

    Debian Linux: I'm Loving It!

  • Tech Issues Solved: 3
  • Joined: 30-August 03
  • Location: Williamsburg, Virginia

Posted 22 December 2012 - 21:31

Thread cleaned. Please post maturely, or not at all.

#103 ViperAFK

ViperAFK

    Neowinian Senior

  • Tech Issues Solved: 3
  • Joined: 07-March 06
  • Location: Vermont

Posted 22 December 2012 - 21:44

Hahaha true but for the record you can use PuTTY free of charge for personal AND commercial usage with absolutely no limitations whatsoever, that guy is just trying to spread FUD. As many people have said, if you use Linux, you're going to have to hit up terminal at least daily. When I'm on Linux, the terminal never closes. The thing with Linux is that it was never designed to handle a GUI, this is one of its biggest shortcomings. Windows and the NT kernel (OSX as well to agree) have kernels built for a mouse/keyboard/digitiser to interact directly with a GUI object. Linux has it so your mouse interacts with the kernel which is interacting with code, the GUI being a layer above this. There are many extra layers in Linux which cause it to be bogged down whenever trying to do anything with graphics. As I said before, I have every linux distro know to man on HDDs and Live CD/DVDs but not for getting real work done (only pentesting/hacking). Windows works, looks good and is easy to do things even when you have no idea what's going on. Other things that make it unstoppable: software support, hardware support, the entire network/graphics/sound/IO stack, GPU accelerated tasks such as WDDM and RDP, user/noob friendly whilst still retaining full power user functionality over the OS through CMD and PowerShell. The list just keeps going.


This is almost completely untrue. You are certainly not required to "hit up the terminal daily" in any modern user friendly distro, such as ubuntu. It sounds like you are using a distro from 5 years ago, you might want to upgrade. I have no problem doing "real tasks" in linux daily.

Windows certainly has advantages when it comes to hardware and software support, but please don't spread this ridiculous FUD. With compatible hardware linux works great out of the box, even better out of the box than windows in many cases. For example lets take my asus laptop:

When I install windows on it:

I need to install some super crappy/buggy elantech drivers to get the touchpad to work right.
I need to install bloated asus software to get any of the fn keys to work, and the software is terrible (for example the play/pause key is hardcoded to open windows media center)

Installing ubuntu on it all of the above works out of the box, and works much better than it does in windows. Its not always so black and white. Of course if you get some hardware that has ****ty linux compatibility then you may end up having to muck around in the terminal, but you can't expect linux to flawlessly support all hardware out there, especially when hardware manufactorers often don't support linux. With good hardware its quite a pleasure to use. My current laptop is a system76 machine that came with ubuntu and the hardware worked as well out of the box as any windows laptop.

I'm so sick of people spreading this FUD that you are "required to use the terminal all the time" in linux.

And that stuff about linux being graphically slow because of "layers of abstraction" is also ridiculous. Some video cards just don't have particularly well performing linux drivers, its not that linux itself can't handle graphically intense tasks. Linux is commonly used for industry use, like graphical rendering farms, you really think linux just can't handle graphical tasks? Linux can also perform just as well as windows for gaming: http://arstechnica.c...indows-version/

The graphics situation in linux certainly does still have plenty of problems, but saying things like "linux can't handle graphically intensive tasks" is rather absurd.

#104 HawkMan

HawkMan

    Neowinian Senior

  • Tech Issues Solved: 4
  • Joined: 31-August 04
  • Location: Norway
  • Phone: Noka Lumia 1020

Posted 22 December 2012 - 21:47

Sudo apt-get install SSH-server, you are DONE.

Bunch of 3rd party? Sounds like Windows.


just like natively I dn't think 1st and 3rd party means what you think it does.

you seem to fail to understand that a Linux distro is just a bunch of third party apps thrown together as a single distro. this doesn't make it "native" or first party. it makes it appear native.

#105 OP Mindovermaster

Mindovermaster

    Neowinian Senior

  • Tech Issues Solved: 13
  • Joined: 25-January 07
  • Location: /USA/Wisconsin/
  • OS: Debian Jessie
  • Phone: Samsung Galaxy SIII

Posted 22 December 2012 - 22:12

Do you always have to leave a cliffhanger, Hawk?

Does Windows use true blue SSH? I thought it uses a client that mimics SSH. As putty.

Like Viper said, both OS's are better at a task than the other, hardware and software.

And terminal is not your ONLY choice. Although, it is the backbone of Linux. Server distros often don't have a DE.