334 replies to this topic 2 votes

[BobSlob]

Haggis, on 31 December 2012 - 14:21, said:

Lets put it in a nice simple way for you

You want to cook Duck with Orange Sauce

you dont know how to do it....oh no what should you do....

RTFM N00B LOSER LINUX4LYFE

thats what you do... and thats why people dont use linux as well.

[jaylittle]

HawkMan, on 31 December 2012 - 14:10, said:

1. Wine is not the same as native, and not everything runs in it, especially not very well

I never claimed otherwise. Compatible applications/games tend to run quite well however.

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2. So when I installed Ubuntu the other day n my older gaming laptop with an Nvidia 7800GT, I then change the display driver from the nouveau crap to one of the official proprietary drivers, Not only did I lose my display resolution o 1400x900 ish, and only get 12800 resolutions as the max option, I also lose all the panels in Unity. oh well switching a bit back and forth and relogging and rebooting, still the same issue. Switch back to the crap nouveau driver, and the unity interface is back (I was able to get to the driver change interface by goign to the right click and change wallpaper menu and then back to the main control panel, if you want to call that limited POS a control panel), However I'm still at a horrible scaled 1280 desktop, not only that, but it thinks my display is a lower res so I have to scroll the desktop even on that res.

at this point the only way to get back the correct display is to edit the config files. X11 is better than it was true. it's still pretty bad though, and with hardware acceleration, they're still not able to fix tearing... in a fricken accelerated GUI. That **** should just not be acceptable today.

I'll have to see if Mint handles changing my display driver to the proprietary one better.

It won't handle it better. All of your problems are the fault of the nvidia display driver, not Linux. I share in your pain just a bit as I recently moved to an Nvidia based system from a Intel based one. The open source Intel driver was great and everything just worked. The Nvidia driver, while far more performant, is problematic and difficult to configure. It requires use of a config file (note: this behavior is specific to the Nvidia binary driver). The Nvidia driver has it's own code to handle power management and display resolution detection and that code stinks. Open Source drivers work far far better as they do what they are supposed to. Sadly in the case of the Nvidia, the open source driver isn't nearly as performant as the closed source driver is.

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Meanwhile Windows 8 allows you to run regular win32 apps as well. so you're not losing any functionality, what was your argument again ?

Win32 applications are clearly second class citizens in the Windows 8 ecosystem. I imagine that trend will continue next year into Windows 9 and onward.

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if you're going to bring WinRT into that discussion, you better also complain why you can't run regular linux apps on Android. but then you'd have to decide what linux standard apps that can't run there. gnome, KDE, what standard library packages and so on.

Android isn't Linux my man. You might want to do a little research. Android just happens to use the Linux kernel, most things above that layer are custom and specific to Android.

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What happens if you download the tux racer rpm and run it on any of the distros that don't use rpm...

Who the hell cares? Your distro has a package repository for a reason. It also has third party repositories for a reason. What happens if I download an Android APK file to a Windows machine... OH NOES!

[DonnieJim]

I'm sure everyone here already knows why developers do not want to develop for Linux. Pretending to not know is a little childish. But let me quote Max Norris: "it's the OS's market share at fault that they won't.. there's just no financial incentive for them to spend a lot of money on a port for something that's currently at a tiny market share".
Plain and simple.

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i am not saying Tech Support is the Lazy way but its the easy way, this is the reason people dont learn they rely on other people to do stuff for them

That has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have read in some time. Who DOESN'T want an easier way? Technology benefits us by NOT having to learn something. It makes our lives easier. With your logic you should be using command prompts for everything instead of a modern GUI. Would you rather learn and then have to type in all the commands to copy and paste or would you rather just click on copy and paste?

Anyway, it's been fun but I must go on to something more logical than this..

[HawkMan]

jaylittle, on 31 December 2012 - 14:47, said:

Win32 applications are clearly second class citizens in the Windows 8 ecosystem. I imagine that trend will continue next year into Windows 9 and onward.

Android isn't Linux my man. You might want to do a little research. Android just happens to use the Linux kernel, most things above that layer are custom and specific to Android.

Who the hell cares? Your distro has a package repository for a reason. It also has third party repositories for a reason. What happens if I download an Android APK file to a Windows machine... OH NOES!

1. nope, win32 apps work just as well on Win8 as they ever did, better in fact. sure they're even in the win8 app store even though it's not meant for them.

2. Android is as much linux as WinRT is windows 8. But then Linux people like to call android linux when it's suits them and say it isn't linux when that suits them better.

3. Not everything is in a repository, and even when it is it's often outdated.

as for what happens if I download an android apk on windows, while this is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, so I dunno why you brought it up, I'll run it with bluestacks. umm what was your point here again ?

[Haggis]

Sorry but your just not grasping it

I did not say i dont want the easiest way possible to do something

what i am saying is that if i find something i cant do i want to learn how to do it, not get someone else to do it

as when someone else does it and you dont learn it then the next time it happens your stuck again

common sense i would say..no?

[DonnieJim]

Haggis, on 31 December 2012 - 14:57, said:

Sorry but your just not grasping it

I did not say i dont want the easiest way possible to do something

what i am saying is that if i find something i cant do i want to learn how to do it, not get someone else to do it

as when someone else does it and you dont learn it then the next time it happens your stuck again

common sense i would say..no?

So I'm assuming then that you change your own oil? Replace your own transmission when it fails? You repair your own smartphone do you? You must be excellent in wiring a house or plumbing a kitchen. After all, if you can't do these things then I am assuming, according to your own words, you have learned how to do these and do do these things yourself without help from someone else..

[+ViperAFK]

HawkMan, on 31 December 2012 - 14:10, said:

1. Wine is not the same as native, and not everything runs in it, especially not very well

2. So when I installed Ubuntu the other day n my older gaming laptop with an Nvidia 7800GT, I then change the display driver from the nouveau crap to one of the official proprietary drivers, Not only did I lose my display resolution o 1400x900 ish, and only get 12800 resolutions as the max option, I also lose all the panels in Unity. oh well switching a bit back and forth and relogging and rebooting, still the same issue. Switch back to the crap nouveau driver, and the unity interface is back (I was able to get to the driver change interface by goign to the right click and change wallpaper menu and then back to the main control panel, if you want to call that limited POS a control panel), However I'm still at a horrible scaled 1280 desktop, not only that, but it thinks my display is a lower res so I have to scroll the desktop even on that res.

at this point the only way to get back the correct display is to edit the config files. X11 is better than it was true. it's still pretty bad though, and with hardware acceleration, they're still not able to fix tearing... in a fricken accelerated GUI. That **** should just not be acceptable today.

I'll have to see if Mint handles changing my display driver to the proprietary one better.



Meanwhile Windows 8 allows you to run regular win32 apps as well. so you're not losing any functionality, what was your argument again ?

if you're going to bring WinRT into that discussion, you better also complain why you can't run regular linux apps on Android. but then you'd have to decide what linux standard apps that can't run there. gnome, KDE, what standard library packages and so on.



What happens if you download the tux racer rpm and run it on any of the distros that don't use rpm...

X11 certainly isn't perfect, but what you are complaining about here is clearly nvidia driver issues, and not issues inherent with X11/linux. I have no tearing at all on intel and everything works out of the box. I also haven't seen resolution issues like that or had to touch a xorg.conf in years (stuff like plugging into my tv via hdmi works fine too). Nvidia's proprietary driver does a ton of weird **** like replacing parts of the graphics stack with their own, in particular parts that displays.

[AJerman]

I haven't read the whole thread, actually, I just skipped to the end, but I think my comments are fitting with where the discussion is. I use Linux every day at work, very extensively. I've used it at home a number of times. I have nothing against Linux, and I even like Linux, however, as of my last bout of Linux on my home computer, I finally had to give up for now on one decision. The graphics system is just not up to par. I got a new video card and couldn't get any combination of drivers, open source or proprietary, to smoothly play all video I wanted, certainly not as smooth as the same computer could do on Windows 7. Being that this system is hooked to my TV and very heavily used for video, this is just a deal breaker at the moment. That said, there are a number of issues and possible fixes. My system isn't even close to the newest or fastest, if it were a faster computer, the issues probably wouldn't be nearly as noticeable. Video drivers are just a disaster on Linux, even now. In fact, we went from very poor driver support in the past, to a confusingly large number of drivers that all work differently to pick and choose from, but if you get a bad one, it could nearly tank your system. I've been playing with the drivers before and gotten things all messed up. Fixable? Probably. My fault? Probably, but annoying to have to deal with still. I understand that's AMD/Nvidia's fault, not Linux, but it affects Linux directly. It doesn't matter where the blame is placed, it all comes down to it being difficult to get Linux running as smooth as Windows can unless you pick exactly the right hardware.

That said, Linux itself is great. One of my other issues with Linux is that I'm very much a tinkerer, and I usually end up breaking things and having to fix them. In the past I would have enjoyed this more, but these days I'm worn out on fixing computers from work, my tinkering at home has significantly dropped, and with that, I've gone back to just using Windows.

Linux is almost there. They are definitely a viable option these days, but there are still a few things they need to work on, like video drivers. I fully expect that if Steam gains much popularity on Linux, I think it will force these issues to get fixed in the near future. I see Linux being a very definite option in the next couple of years.

DonnieJim, on 31 December 2012 - 15:04, said:

So I'm assuming then that you change your own oil? Replace your own transmission when it fails? You repair your own smartphone do you? You must be excellent in wiring a house or plumbing a kitchen. After all, if you can't do these things then I am assuming, according to your own words, you have learned how to do these and do do these things yourself without help from someone else..

I lol'd at how you tried to make him sound crazy for learning how to do things on his own instead of needing to rely on other people. I change my own oil. If my transmission failed, I'd probably change it myself. I do repair my own smartphone. I do know how to wire a house and plumb a kitchen. It's called being self sufficient. Back in the day they'd probably just call it being a man and knowing how to fix and work on things.

[DonnieJim]

AJerman, on 31 December 2012 - 15:43, said:

I change my own oil. If my transmission failed, I'd probably change it myself. I do repair my own smartphone. I do know how to wire a house and plumb a kitchen.

Sorry, but this wasn't aimed at you....

[ArialBlue]

Tearing is another problem with Linux.
It is simply not acceptable behavior in the modern age.
I mean, I don't think I ever saw GUI tearing on Windows XP (XP was around since, what, 2001?).

[James7]

I know it's said a million times, but lots of the problems people experience with Linux are down to hardware companies who don't provide drivers. For the record, I've never had tearing on Linux. And if I run Windows in a virtual machine in Linux, I still get no tearing. I think people blame Linux when it's the hardware companies. I actually have video drivers from AMD for my graphics card, so it works great.

Also, think about trying to run Windows on older hardware that's not supported by the hardware companies or Windows--it doesn't work properly and may not even install. That's the reality. OSX has the best of all worlds by controlling the hardware and being able to supply drivers for it.

I think also there is a lot of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) spread about Linux in general, deliberately or out of ignorance. Lots of the comments in this and other threads seem totally bizarre (perhaps they should have been posted to It's a Conspiracy! instead) and only designed to scare off people unfamiliar with Linux. But that doesn't bother me. What bothers me is that, when my sixteen-year-old cousin was installing Linux on her laptop, it took her virginity (yes, it claimed her maidenhood). This angered the family a lot and would never have happened if she's stuck with Windows.

[yowanvista]

HawkMan, on 31 December 2012 - 14:55, said:

2. Android is as much linux as WinRT is windows 8. But then Linux people like to call android linux when it's suits them and say it isn't linux when that suits them better.

Get your facts straight, Android uses the Linux Kernel but it's not a 'pure' linux distro nor does it have many of the standard GNU libraries or even an X Window System. So, since native linux applications require one or both of these, none will run.. Android uses the Dalvik VM which only runs Apps coded with a Java language implementation that compiles down to Dalvik bytecode. Android may have several similarities with desktop distros (eg Android has a Terminal) but they're totally different. You're comparing a Kernel with Windows 8/RT, that doesn't make any sense.

[HawkMan]

Linux IS the kernel. Ubuntu is Ubuntu, not Linux, Linux is the kernel in Ubuntu, like its he kernel in fedora and every other Linux distro.

Linux is NOT an OS, there is no "pure" Linux distro, as that would run nothing.

And actually I didn't compare anything with windows RT/windows 8. I said windows RT and windows 8 are completely different.

[Detection]

What's this about ?





Read something about a touch OS ?

[HawkMan]

So my laptop reinstalled to Min has been standing unused for a day, during the install I had the same annoying issue I had with Ubuntu, where when it asks to connect to a wireless network when I'm tryign to input the password in the box the installer uses I get a popup. no big deal I just put it in the popup instead. but seems a bit weird and bad design.

Well today when I opened it up, not only had the popup come up, which it tends to do at times, but on the taskbar, I had like 40 instances of the wireless network authentication required popup.... WTF.... why is this dialog even allowed to have multiple instances...

Even worse, the only way to get rid of each one is to either click cancel or connect (the x s about the same as cancel), and both options take quite a long time. by that I mean 12+ seconds from I click untill the dialog goes away so I can close the next one.