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everyone I've shown it to novice or advanced users takes to it immediately and once I show them how it works no one picks 7 over 8, even if they come in with their minds set on 7 because the media told them 8 is horrible.

I see you're from Norway. This doesn't happen in the States unless it's staged. That's just not how real people live, not even IT people. Having said that, I agree it's not a failure. It can't fail. MS has desktop OS dominance/monopoly and Windows 8 is the only option.

I don't feel that it has consumer buzz though, purely inertia at the moment. I do think Windows Phone 8 is picking up consumer buzz.

Does mindshare count when there's no competition, I don't know. I don't think so. When there are really cool games and apps for consumers that are made for Windows 8, then it will have buzz. It's still early. Without a meaningful media ecosystem, I'm not sure that gee whiz gotta have will ever come. But the inertia is strong, it will not "fail."

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because I know nothing about software/OS development and I didnt know they would develop so much in advance

to give you an idea of the timeframe. the process to build windows phone 7 started 4 years prior to release.

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Please PLEASE add in a Control Panel check box to disable the hot corners while in the desktop environment. I do not care about the start menu, or a button, but these hidden menus activated by mouse movements drive me crazy.

Everybody I talk to that has Windows 8 says the same thing, that they keep activating the charms bar and app switcher on accident.

Also, please make a better way to shut down the computer. People still look for it in the now Start Screen. I still get questions and when I remind people where it is, they all say the same thing "Oh yeah that is right. That is so stupid".

I am glad for applications like Start8 that have the option to disable the hidden menus activated by mouse movement on the desktop for good. It is just a freaking checkbox, why can't we have options?

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I am both astonished and stunned - seriously, how many people can gobble up marketing gibberish without a single trace of doubt fed to them by big companies and it's not just about Microsoft with their Metro-stuff...

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I see you're from Norway. This doesn't happen in the States unless it's staged. That's just not how real people live, not even IT people. Having said that, I agree it's not a failure. It can't fail. MS has desktop OS dominance/monopoly and Windows 8 is the only option.

What doesn't happen in the states ? that people have their minds pre programmed by biased media articles, or that people change their minds when they see how well something works for them after being told it wouldn't work.

because the first one is wrong, American media is the worst at programming people, especially in windows 8. I don't think the second part is true either, and if it is, that's just sad, if peopel won't change their minds about something after being shown it's better for them.

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What doesn't happen in the states ?

sad, if peopel won't change their minds about something after being shown it's better for them.

Normal people don't go around showing people Windows 7 and 8, novice or advanced (except in rare geek instances) and have them choose either Windows 7 or 8. Unless it is a staged event. Just doesn't happen. Maybe 1 buddy or something. (Edit: Just like the anti-Windows 8 videos. Staged. Normal people just don't do this type of thing.)

The last part, marketing is marketing. Marketing's purpose is to sell people something they don't necessarily need. Whether that be Windows 8 or a new car. Part of the problem with Windows 8, is there is a presumption that those who like windows 8, know what's best ... With regards to Windows 8, without a doubt it is better for touch devices. There's no argument there and that "is" what the Modern UI was primarily designed for. That doesn't mean it won't work with keyboard and mouse, it does quite well. But it was designed for touch starting with Windows Phone.

The desktop environment, minus the Start Menu issue (which for some is NOT better as determined by them), is better IMO. I can achieve productivity with the Start Menu that cannot be duplicated in Windows 8, but I don't miss it more than I enjoy the performance and stability of Windows 8's desktop environment. There are other areas that I think are not better and hope improve over time. Primarily Search, dealing with long lists, file management in the Modern UI, and of course the core media apps (Xbox Music/Video) which I think are critical for consumer success, all need to be better.

The people who, for whatever reason, cannot admit some of Windows 8's shortcomings won't improve it, it is those who do criticize it that will improve it. I personally don't think Windows 8 will achieve consumer "buzz" or gee which I want that factor as long as Xbox Music/Video apps are in the shape they are in and there is no iTunes like media/playlist/sync management app comparable to iTunes or Zune (on 7) for Windows 8, Surface RT, and Windows Phone 8.

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stores have demo machines on them for people to try.

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Naturally there are those who claim 8 is a success because microsoft posted a 40 million sales figure, however we know this to be dishonest since they didn't tell us how many of those 40 million were OEM sales, microsoft was shown to be guilty of this kind of dishonesty in the past with the Vista failure so history repeats itself once again.

The reality of the matter is windows 8 is a complete and total flop, windows 8 machines are barely selling at any of the 4 best buy locations near me, microcenter has STILL not sold one single windows 8 machine (mayfield heights Ohio).

Nobody wants windows 8, people are avoiding it and demanding alternatives such as windows 7, a friend who is a manager at walmart said that they might have sold 10 windows 8 machines and out of those 10 at least 9 have been returned with the buyer citing windows 8 as the reason for returning it (mostly laptops).

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Naturally there are those who claim 8 is a success because microsoft posted a 40 million sales figure, however we know this to be dishonest since they didn't tell us how many of those 40 million were OEM sales, microsoft was shown to be guilty of this kind of dishonesty in the past with the Vista failure so history repeats itself once again.

The reality of the matter is windows 8 is a complete and total flop, windows 8 machines are barely selling at any of the 4 best buy locations near me, microcenter has STILL not sold one single windows 8 machine (mayfield heights Ohio).

Nobody wants windows 8, people are avoiding it and demanding alternatives such as windows 7, a friend who is a manager at walmart said that they might have sold 10 windows 8 machines and out of those 10 at least 9 have been returned with the buyer citing windows 8 as the reason for returning it (mostly laptops).

So with no evidence to prove either or you claim their numbers are bull****, besides the fact we know there's a huge amount of people who bought online upgrades.

Even then, you claim that for some reason all the stores around you are giving you their sales numbers... which I find hard to believe. besides there's a few reasons why they are not selling as much windows 8 as they could, it's called managers, these stores and the chains in particular have bought huge stock of windows 7 computers which is both on the local stores and at their centrals stocks and their suppliers(chain buys contracts that says we are buying this amount of these laptops for our chain, these are then set aside at the suppliers and sent out to the stores on order. at the end of the quarter if all the contracted laptops haven't been shipped, the chain has two options, Free the computers and have to pay a contractual "fine", or divide them on forced shipments to their stores, which is what they always do), the Managers tell all their salesmen, you have to sell out all our old Windows 7 laptops at any cost before we can sell anything else. This means the salesmen will lie and tell customers windows 8 is bad to get them to buy 7 laptops, or just don't offer or show the 8 laptops at all.

Since part of my job is actually selling computers, and since I'm not an ******* and consider the customer first and foremost, I will demo windows 8 to them, tell them the advantages, and let them choose, 99% chooses windows 8 laptops, so at our store now we're selling primarily windows 8 laptops and we have a stash of windows 7 laptops that's taking a lot longer to get rid of since. I could have gotten rid of them all by now by being a bad salesman and doing what all the other chains do, but I don't. which means we have happier customers and more repeat customers than the cheaper retail chains.

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I wouldn't count on an alpha build for UI changes.

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Naturally there are those who claim 8 is a success because microsoft posted a 40 million sales figure, however we know this to be dishonest since they didn't tell us how many of those 40 million were OEM sales, microsoft was shown to be guilty of this kind of dishonesty in the past with the Vista failure so history repeats itself once again.

You have a point, but I wouldn't call it dishonest because everyone does this. And it does matter. Windows is the defacto standard and on a PC is how most people acquire their OS. So, those numbers do count. What they don't show is mindshare. Whether people like it, want it, love it, or if it's just whats on the PC they bought.

If the Surface was more of a consumer success, and MS is trying with all the ads, it would have that mindshare among consumers. Unfortunately I think Surface and Windows 8 missed the mark with consumers. And IMO, you can blame it squarely on the Xbox Music/Video core apps being very poor and there being no simply syncing software such as iTunes or Zune for it. Manage music and playlists is one of the primary functions for Tablets and Phones. It's not done, especially with so many IHVs releasing tablets. But in this space, they have to compete with the ultra cheap tablets and of course the iPad. This means MS needs(needed) everything to be top notch and IMO it wasn't.

Surface will do great for business, especially the Pro. That is a lot of numbers and will insure some success but in mindshare, it'll still be an iPad world and now maybe Google too. Their lack of presence in the enterprise has left them free to focus on consumers and of course price goes a loooooooong way especially in this economy.

The fact that only a couple months after release you're hearing more about Windows Blue and Windows 9 than Windows 8 apps, games, and updates is quite telling.

Edit: I'm very interested in hearing Windows 8, Surface RT, and Windows Phone 8's Holiday numbers. I think Windows Phone 8 is winning mindshare among consumers. Slowly but surely. But with the lack of appropriate software on Windows 8 for it to sync (Windows Media Player Classic is best) it could lose momentum. Microsoft foolishly thinks it can leverage its monopoly to force feed Xbox Music pass and Marketplace music sales. This will fail.

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Naturally there are those who claim 8 is a success because microsoft posted a 40 million sales figure, however we know this to be dishonest since they didn't tell us how many of those 40 million were OEM sales, microsoft was shown to be guilty of this kind of dishonesty in the past with the Vista failure so history repeats itself once again.

The reality of the matter is windows 8 is a complete and total flop, windows 8 machines are barely selling at any of the 4 best buy locations near me, microcenter has STILL not sold one single windows 8 machine (mayfield heights Ohio).

Nobody wants windows 8, people are avoiding it and demanding alternatives such as windows 7, a friend who is a manager at walmart said that they might have sold 10 windows 8 machines and out of those 10 at least 9 have been returned with the buyer citing windows 8 as the reason for returning it (mostly laptops).

I don't know how to tell you this, but Microsoft has ALWAYS quoted the number of Windows license sold regardless if it's retail or OEM. The majority of licenses sold is from OEM. How is that dishonest? They are a freaking software company that makes revenue by selling software licenses either to OEM or retail. Think of Windows, Office, SharePoint, etc. Microsoft does not sell computers. I am not sure how difficult this is to understand.

Microsoft - number of licenses sold

Apple - number of devices sold

Google - number of activations

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Damage control for what ?

and what failure. there is no failure. Windows 8 is selling well and everyone I've shown it to novice or advanced users takes to it immediately and once I show them how it works no one picks 7 over 8, even if they come in with their minds set on 7 because the media told them 8 is horrible.

I wish I could fail the way MS does if you think this is a failure.

And the screaming from the OEM space (Dell, HP, Lenovo, Fujitsu, etc.) is pretty much due to the flatness of the hardware requirements for Windows 8 (compared to Windows 7) - until Windows 7, a new version of Windows could be counted on to require brawnier hardware than the previous version; however, the hardware requirements even for Vista were not THAT much taller than the requirements of XP (in terms of hardware) - the taller requirements (Viata vs. XP) were in terms of GPU, not really the rest of the hardware. What the OEMs wanted (with Windows 8) vs. what the OEMs actually got is what the screaming is all about - Microsoft listened to the userbase (not the OEMs).

The screaming from the users (what screaming there actually is) has nothing to do with any supposed increase in hardware requirements (8 vs. 7) either - the user issues are entirely UI/UX-driven (basically, a mirror image of the screamfest with Vista, which was about hardware support). Yes; there ARE features that Windows 8 leverages in new hardware better than Windows 7 - however, how many of those are genuine mainstream features of even Windows users? Virtualization (specifically, Hyper-V)? Nope - decidedly an outlier feature (and I'm speaking as someone that uses this feature). Other than UI/UX changes, virtualization is actually the single biggest improvement for Windows 8 compared to Windows 7 - and it's something that most general-purpose Windows 8 users could care less about.

The PC market is looking like the automobile market - not a lot of *new model* sales, except at either the very low end (where the competition is fiercer than ever, especially throwing in tablets and refurbished PCs) or the boutique/high end - the great middle is flat, and will likely remain that way for quite a bit - and that's not either Microsoft's fault, OR Microsoft's problem.

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Some of the replies were interesting. Google translate from Chinese to English

" The landlord is the irrigation group, your post is irrigation? "

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Some of the replies were interesting. Google translate from Chinese to English

" The landlord is the irrigation group, your post is irrigation? "

LOL,

landlord = OP

irrigation = spam

The guy probably didn't know the OP is a MS guy, :laugh:

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