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Any PHP Developers Want To Team Up?


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#16 OP Mr.XXIV

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 20:34

No kidding.


If you're writing PHP from scratch you'l failing from the start. You'll want a good framework - Symfony is what we used at my last job.


Why on earth would you do this instead of creating a separate column. Wow.


Anyone suggesting Drupal is out of their mind, to put it bluntly.


A good framework will handle quite a lot of this for you. And you secure the database by permission, encrypting it is was overkill and wouldn't even do anything since the private key needed to read it would be easily accessible even in a hack.

Symfony uses a salt from memory, and then hashes the password 1000 times over (or any number you want) before storing it.


I respect your thoughts on this, I'm definitely looking for the most advanced framework possible to make all of this happen through php 5.4 & how to make this really secure, but fast at the same time. This is it, I'll go with Symfony.


#17 n_K

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 22:30

If you're writing PHP from scratch you'l failing from the start. You'll want a good framework - Symfony is what we used at my last job.

Why on earth would you do this instead of creating a separate column. Wow.

Writing PHP from scratch = fail? You're talking pure crap.
Also remember various 'frameworks' have license restrictions, if they don't follow them expect to be screwed over.
Plus you'd have to keep the framework updated in case any security flaws come out, and you learn NOTHING about security using a framework unless you made the framework.

Seperate column slows things down, not very noticable in a small database but when you've got millions of rows and a high database usage, you'd notice it.

#18 OP Mr.XXIV

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 22:33

I must say, this is a social network to be worked on, so i do require the fastest but really secure database created.

#19 +Audien

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:09

Writing PHP from scratch = fail? You're talking pure crap.
Also remember various 'frameworks' have license restrictions, if they don't follow them expect to be screwed over.
Plus you'd have to keep the framework updated in case any security flaws come out, and you learn NOTHING about security using a framework unless you made the framework.

I work professionally as a software engineer so I assure you I'm not talking pure crap. Trying to do anything in bare PHP will more than likely end up in a unmaintainable mess. An MVC framework will compartmentalise everything quite nicely and make future changes much quicker and simpler.

How long would it take you to write your own role-based permissions system, or multi-step forms, or a CRUD control panel? With a framework those could just be config file changes, or a single command line to auto-generate a template-based basic control panel to get you start.

Symfony is supplied under the MIT license, free for commercial and non-commercial use.

Yes, you have to keep a framework updated. If you're writing code properly it should be rather straightforward as your code is separate from the framework's. Updating Symfony is just a simple git pull.

Learning about security isn't the purpose of a framework - you learn about security by learning about security (and experience, of course). I'd put my eggs in the thoroughly unit-tested, open source framework basket than anything written adhoc anyday.

Seperate column slows things down, not very noticable in a small database but when you've got millions of rows and a high database usage, you'd notice it.


Ridiculous. For one, string operations are quite expensive, and two, if your database is noticably slower because you added a single extra column then you've probably got other problems like misconfiguration, no-cache, or simply bad hardware.

#20 OP Mr.XXIV

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:16

Ridiculous. For one, string operations are quite expensive, and two, if your database is noticably slower because you added a single extra column then you've probably got other problems like misconfiguration, no-cache, or simply bad hardware.


It's a good thing I have the fastest server Host Gator could offer. Sticking with Symfony since their working with the latest PHP, I'm gonna learn more about their system while I do want a bit of help to get all the plans going for the site and it's features.

#21 +Audien

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:18

It's a good thing I have the fastest server Host Gator could offer. Sticking with Symfony since their working with the latest PHP, I'm gonna learn more about their system while I do want a bit of help to get all the plans going for the site and it's features.


Symfony's very powerful, but it was very unweildy the first time I was introduced to it at that internship, later job. It took about 6 months to be comfortable working with it. There's also the 1.x versions which you might find simpler than the restructured Symfony 2.

#22 OP Mr.XXIV

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:20

It seems to show similarity to FuelPHP but with more useful functions as if I could work with Pagoda Box.

If anything, I should be able to get a good feel of it when January hits. :)

#23 +Audien

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:25

It seems to show similarity to FuelPHP but with more useful functions as if I could work with Pagoda Box.

If anything, I should be able to get a good feel of it when January hits. :)


Symfony has caching functionality, and caching on different "slots" of the layout. I wrote something were a couple of columns pulled data from twitter/fb which are cached for a few mins, for example.

I spoke with my old company again last week and they actually said they've moved to some caching server software (whose name I forget) that sits in front of the HTTP server and it resulted in 90% of the requests hitting the cache and never touching a backend or database which improved performance significantly. Of course this always depends on how frequently you want things to update.

With that and improvements they took on a company's servers from 4 HTTP, 8 MySQL (the homepage had like 3000 queries, which they also fixed) down to like 1 HTTP and 4 MySQL. They're migrating it to AWS now too so they can scale things up or down much more quickly.

#24 OP Mr.XXIV

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:29

Symfony has caching functionality, and caching on different "slots" of the layout. I wrote something were a couple of columns pulled data from twitter/fb which are cached for a few mins, for example.

I spoke with my old company again last week and they actually said they've moved to some caching server software (whose name I forget) that sits in front of the HTTP server and it resulted in 90% of the requests hitting the cache and never touching a backend or database which improved performance significantly. Of course this always depends on how frequently you want things to update.

With that and improvements they took on a company's servers from 4 HTTP, 8 MySQL (the homepage had like 3000 queries, which they also fixed) down to like 1 HTTP and 4 MySQL. They're migrating it to AWS now too so they can scale things up or down much more quickly.


That makes perfect sense, since this is based on public information being updated, I want to cache-on-update. Not only that, I want to set the cache at levels where, if it's the user profile, cache level is 1, but where you're searching, cache will be at level 3 as there's only an importance for looking for the user itself instead of the info, yet.


I use CloudFlare, so I originally had a plan on saving the requests that way, but I do need something more detailed since privacy is an issue, so not everything can be handled outside the box.

#25 OP Mr.XXIV

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 22:10

Honestly, Symfony is one hell of a framework. Currently taking a look at the profiler and there are lot of things I don't get, even Authentication is what I'm truly trying to understand along with the fact that there's index.

Or seeing it as an MVC, I suppose I could create index.php through the controller. But yet, I don't have enough knowledge yet to do so, so I'm pretty much not trying to touch the system til I understand the basics.

#26 Tekkerson

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 23:00

+1 for Symfony2. All the other frameworks are a little outdated. There seems to be a lot of people who build sites for hobbies; professional developers will point you to Symfony2 or ZendFramework since they're pretty much the most serious frameworks right now. The rest can be arguably as good, but as far as the latest and greatest Symfony2 or ZendFramework are your bet.

I may join up because I've been developing projects that don't need a framework of such scale. It'd be nice to get to work more with Symfony2.

#27 OP Mr.XXIV

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 23:35

+1 for Symfony2. All the other frameworks are a little outdated. There seems to be a lot of people who build sites for hobbies; professional developers will point you to Symfony2 or ZendFramework since they're pretty much the most serious frameworks right now. The rest can be arguably as good, but as far as the latest and greatest Symfony2 or ZendFramework are your bet.

I may join up because I've been developing projects that don't need a framework of such scale. It'd be nice to get to work more with Symfony2.


Sweet! Making use of Symfony, there are many things needed to be built and the components and functions built in this framework will cover a lot, and I'm probably gonna have to get someone who works with algorithms for a certain user feature known as a personality graph, made for improving the user itself.

#28 n_K

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 23:41

I work professionally as a software engineer so I assure you I'm not talking pure crap. Trying to do anything in bare PHP will more than likely end up in a unmaintainable mess. An MVC framework will compartmentalise everything quite nicely and make future changes much quicker and simpler.

What a load of complete and utter tosh.
If not using a framework is messy then that must mean then framework itself is messy according to you.

How long would it take you to write your own role-based permissions system, or multi-step forms, or a CRUD control panel? With a framework those could just be config file changes, or a single command line to auto-generate a template-based basic control panel to get you start.

I made a control panel in a week originally then rewrote the whole thing a few years later in a few days without any 'frameworks'

Yes, you have to keep a framework updated. If you're writing code properly it should be rather straightforward as your code is separate from the framework's. Updating Symfony is just a simple git pull.

Yes you would think. How many companies are still using XP or outdated software? Loads.

Learning about security isn't the purpose of a framework - you learn about security by learning about security (and experience, of course). I'd put my eggs in the thoroughly unit-tested, open source framework basket than anything written adhoc anyday.

No it's not the purpose of a framework, but only a fool uses something which they do not understand, and if you haven't been through every single line of code in the framework (No need to say you have, I know you haven't) then you do not have a clue about it. Anyone can advertise anything wrongly on the internet and go unnoticed. Plus if there's a flaw or 0day discovered in the framework, it's not just one site that can be exploited, IT IS EVERY SITE that uses that framework, and finding sites using it won't be hard using google won't be hard due to you having to acknowledge that you are using the framework.

Ridiculous. For one, string operations are quite expensive, and two, if your database is noticably slower because you added a single extra column then you've probably got other problems like misconfiguration, no-cache, or simply bad hardware.

String operations aren't expensive on today's hardware. And as I said, in an ENTERPRISE environment, the space an extra column takes up is huge, it's got padding and all sorts in the database files themselves.

#29 OP Mr.XXIV

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:59

What a load of complete and utter tosh.
If not using a framework is messy then that must mean then framework itself is messy according to you.


I made a control panel in a week originally then rewrote the whole thing a few years later in a few days without any 'frameworks'


Yes you would think. How many companies are still using XP or outdated software? Loads.


No it's not the purpose of a framework, but only a fool uses something which they do not understand, and if you haven't been through every single line of code in the framework (No need to say you have, I know you haven't) then you do not have a clue about it. Anyone can advertise anything wrongly on the internet and go unnoticed. Plus if there's a flaw or 0day discovered in the framework, it's not just one site that can be exploited, IT IS EVERY SITE that uses that framework, and finding sites using it won't be hard using google won't be hard due to you having to acknowledge that you are using the framework.


String operations aren't expensive on today's hardware. And as I said, in an ENTERPRISE environment, the space an extra column takes up is huge, it's got padding and all sorts in the database files themselves.


The same things can happen on any CMS or Framework. Invision, WordPress, Joomla, no matter what, everything has it's weaknesses until proven resolved. I would've chosen FuelPHP, but it turns out Symfony was more advanced in many features, seeing that it works with YAML and things I've never thought about touching, but this will be something big I could learn from.

#30 n_K

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:19

The same things can happen on any CMS or Framework. Invision, WordPress, Joomla, no matter what, everything has it's weaknesses until proven resolved. I would've chosen FuelPHP, but it turns out Symfony was more advanced in many features, seeing that it works with YAML and things I've never thought about touching, but this will be something big I could learn from.

You might be able to learn from creating the site, but you learn nothing by using a framework, all you learn is how to rely on it. If there's a job opening for a PHP coder for instance, if you've only got experiance in PHP by using a framework, unless that company ONLY uses that framework, you won't get the job. The job will go to someone that doesn't rely on frameworks.



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