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Sony patents pre-owned games block

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Posted

From NeoGAF...

So I believe this is interesting in light of a prior rumour about Sony limiting second hand game sales on PS4.

Sony has been working on new technology for limiting used game sales, and has applied for a patent. The patent was filed 09/12/2012 by SCEJ.

Perhaps this work is where the rumour came from. Or perhaps it independently corroborates the rumour.

Link: http://www.freepaten...13/0007892.html

Anyway, here's some of the relevant detail:

It works by supplying a contactless RF tag with each copy of a game (NFC?), which can (independent of a network connection), remember if a game has been tied to a different machine or user account previously. The system checks with the tag before playing the game.

I suppose I should say that this doesn't mean PS4 will, for sure, restrict second hand games. This would not be the first time Sony registered patents in this area and then did nothing with the tech. In fact I remember a patent fueling rumours prior to PS3's launch. The decision would be a business one, not one based on technical feasibility. This system would be relatively expensive to implement vs network-DRM. Although it could have the double effect of limiting piracy - at least until pirates could hack or reproduce the 'rf tag' system.

The last official comment we had from someone at Sony was Jack Tretton's "'for the record, I'm totally opposed to blocking used games." - but maybe people would be better reassured by a comment from SCEJ...

So with those qualifications out of the way, have at it :p

edit - since it's causing some confusion, the application refers to a system that can tie a game to your user ID (i.e. your account), or a machine ID via the RF tag. For people wondering what would happen if your console died etc.

To quote the Chuckle Brothers...

I said last year that I'd probably not buy into the next generation of consoles. If this gets implemented in the next PlayStation, then it looks like I might have jumped off the ship right before it hit the iceberg.

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Posted

Measures like these will just drive more people to piracy in my opinion.

Especially, if technology like this "locks" the game to the first system it's played on, regardless of network connection. Like the quote says, what happens if your console dies and you have to get a new one? Do you have to re-buy the games too?

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Posted

if this were to be true, i still doubt it's going to hurt overall game sales that much. sure, there are local chains in my area that sell used games, but the prices arent always that good. Hell, Gamestop sells some used games for a whopping $5 less than a new version. which would you rather buy?

Also, with the growing popularity of downloaded games, it's not like you can resell them anyway. i'm fairly sure i cant resell games i bought on Steam, or even 'donate' them to a friend. If i download a game on my PS3, i cant sell that to someone else or Gamestop, right?

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Posted

There is already a method to transfer purchased content to a new console on both the 360 and PS3, so I'm quite certain they would have the functionality in place if they ever decide to implement this.

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Posted

EU laws got me covered, so yeah, come at me bro! :laugh:

Anyways, as the article says, apparently Sony opposes the idea of limiting used game sales and I hope this will stay that way so they can block this particular type of crippling future retro gamers and current normal people wanting to ditch a game from being used.

Don't license the patent! :)

If for once a patent troll could possibly be helpful, it'd be with DRM in general.

Patent all possible solutions and then don't license them. :p

Glassed Silver:ios

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Posted

Doesn't the Wii-U tie games to your machine/user id?

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Posted

One of my friends is a lawyer and mentioned that having a patent for something means absolutely nothing. They're likely covering their bases in case they decide to pursue it in the future, so someone can't pre-empt and make them pay for it if they do.

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Posted

One of my friends is a lawyer and mentioned that having a patent for something means absolutely nothing. They're likely covering their bases in case they decide to pursue it in the future, so someone can't pre-empt and make them pay for it if they do.

They can block that sh*te from being used by anyone else as long as they like imho.

Maybe they should make sure that nothing similar can be legally developed and used in other systems...

It'd be very sad to see others get the hint and work around it. :no:

:p

Glassed Silver:mac

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Posted

Doesn't the Wii-U tie games to your machine/user id?

Not that I know of. Nintendo Accounts are tied to a specific console and can't be transferred but as far as I know the games themselves aren't tied to anything.

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Posted

Stupid idea, unlike in the PC world where digital distribution can keep titles around forever, many low print console games (rare RPGs especially) can become very hard to find. Try finding a copy of Aquanaut's Holiday for the PS3 in English (Only the Asian version was and now fetches silly money).

Keep your online passes going if you must, but this is simply suicide.

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Posted

unlike in the PC world where digital distribution can keep titles around forever

I don't really get your point here. Consoles can do the same thing.

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Posted

So I believe this is interesting in light of a prior rumour about Sony limiting second hand game sales on PS4.

Sony has been working on new technology for limiting used game sales, and has applied for a patent. The patent was filed 09/12/2012 by SCEJ.

Perhaps this work is where the rumour came from. Or perhaps it independently corroborates the rumour.

I think we should limit the sales of used cars too. Sales of used houses should be limited too. While we're at it sales of used computer parts should be limited too.

The thing i'll never understand about the current laws is this.

Companies say we buy the right to the game only and not the game. So they can do whatever they want even if it's against our rights as a human. The right to own things.

But then they ask you money multiple time for the same product. Want to play COD on PC you got to pay. Want to play COD on your XBox too with different friends you got to pay AGAIN. Want to play Angry Bird on your iPhone got to pay. Want to play Angry bird on your new LUmia replacing your iPhone you got to pay AGAIN.

If we buy only the right to the game should not this include the right to every physical media version of it ? Cause in the end we don't really buy the physical media we just borrow it.

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Posted

I don't really get your point here. Consoles can do the same thing.

They can? We have strict DRM, completely unknown future around whether or not we can carry our games to new hardware (are all my PSN games playable on PS4? who knows....), Sony set publishing and licensing fees on the platform (even for patches due to bandwidth). Sony control and run the whole network and if you don't like their digital policies and/or can't afford to pay them what they tell you, tough luck. You do not have that issue, at least to that extent, on a PC.

Konami wouldn't even release an Xbox 360 patch for Silent Hill HD saying MS charge too much.

My point is sure FIFA/COD will be there day 1 digitally, but the PC market is absolutely light years ahead of consoles for allowing developers (especially indie) to distribute their games and updates as they see fit (DRM free, through torrents, for whatever price they want, ect).

Consoles are closed platforms, and as long as they remain that are consoles, if they ever become open they essentially become a PC under your TV.

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Posted

Good job Sony, get more people to pirate games :rolleyes:

When will companies learn...

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Posted

They can? We have strict DRM, completely unknown future around whether or not we can carry our games to new hardware (are all my PSN games playable on PS4? who knows....), Sony set publishing and licensing fees on the platform (even for patches due to bandwidth). Sony control and run the whole network and if you don't like their digital policies and/or can't afford to pay them what they tell you, tough luck. You do not have that issue, at least to that extent, on a PC.

Konami wouldn't even release an Xbox 360 patch for Silent Hill HD saying MS charge too much.

My point is sure FIFA/COD will be there day 1 digitally, but the PC market is absolutely light years ahead of consoles for allowing developers (especially indie) to distribute their games and updates as they see fit (DRM free, through torrents, for whatever price they want, ect).

Consoles are closed platforms, and as long as they remain that are consoles, if they ever become open they essentially become a PC under your TV.

Preach it man.

I finally friended you, hope that's something that you can live with :p

I like your stance on preservability and even more so - that you actually care about it.

Today we live in a world filling up with games, developers and publishers who will make it increasingly harder or at least worrisome to maintain a game's lifespan for future retro gaming. Oh and not all games are popular enough to get rereleases (which often will suck or at least cost you good money AGAIN) like FF titles. :)

Finally someone who cares and thinks about all this in a way I can sympathize with.

Glassed Silver:mac

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Posted

They can? We have strict DRM, completely unknown future around whether or not we can carry our games to new hardware (are all my PSN games playable on PS4? who knows....), Sony set publishing and licensing fees on the platform (even for patches due to bandwidth). Sony control and run the whole network and if you don't like their digital policies and/or can't afford to pay them what they tell you, tough luck. You do not have that issue, at least to that extent, on a PC.

Konami wouldn't even release an Xbox 360 patch for Silent Hill HD saying MS charge too much.

My point is sure FIFA/COD will be there day 1 digitally, but the PC market is absolutely light years ahead of consoles for allowing developers (especially indie) to distribute their games and updates as they see fit (DRM free, through torrents, for whatever price they want, ect).

Consoles are closed platforms, and as long as they remain that are consoles, if they ever become open they essentially become a PC under your TV.

They can still 'be around forever'. There's nothing stopping devs from releasing digitally anymore instead of limited runs or cutting off supply when things aren't selling.

The other stuff you mentioned is on a completely different track.

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Posted

I read this on IGN before, I actually got an email from them about "breaking news" and one of the comments on there pointed out that Sony actually did the same exact thing with the PS3 before it was released.

Here is a forum post about that time.

Here is a link to the patent as well.

So yeah, I have to believe this is much to do about nothing, as I truly cannot imagine Sony would be this stupid. I honestly would strongly consider passing on the PS4 if this wounds up being the case, as much of the games I have played this generation have been rentals from GameFly. That is literally the one and only reason I am against it. I never modded by PS3, so I am not worried about that aspect of things, I am however deeply concerned that I would no longer be able to play rented games.

So I just cannot see this ever becoming a reality.

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Posted

Before everyone has their periods: patenting something doesn't always mean you are going to use it. Sometimes it is just to stop competitors from patenting it first. Big companies patent a ****-load of stuff all the time.

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Posted

Just don't buy Sony **** and you won't have the issue.

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Posted

Just don't buy Sony **** and you won't have the issue.

What a wise comment.

Unfortunately often enough the reality is that people sometimes have to decide on a system due to exclusive game titles.

Little example:

If you're big into Anime games, there's no point getting an Xbox.

A Wii or PS3 will suit you much better.

Depending a little more what further kinds of games or what titles precisely you're going to have to buy a certain console unless you want a system you basically don't get a reasonable use out of.

Glassed Silver:ios

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Posted

What a wise comment.

Unfortunately often enough the reality is that people sometimes have to decide on a system due to exclusive game titles.

Little example:

If you're big into Anime games, there's no point getting an Xbox.

A Wii or PS3 will suit you much better.

Depending a little more what further kinds of games or what titles precisely you're going to have to buy a certain console unless you want a system you basically don't get a reasonable use out of.

Glassed Silver:ios

You say you have to do it as if people have to play games to live. If those people want to whinge, and then buy it anyway, screw them.

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Posted

Just don't buy Sony **** and you won't have the issue.

Until other manufactures see the Sony example and implement their own anti-second hand system.

Consumers have every right to express what kind of products they want. Whether companies make the things people want, or simply tell them what they want, is up to them.

I've never understood this idea we're all supposed to keep our opinions to ourselves.

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Posted

Until other manufactures see the Sony example and implement their own anti-second hand system.

Consumers have every right to express what kind of products they want. Whether companies make the things people want, or simply tell them what they want, is up to them.

I've never understood this idea we're all supposed to keep our opinions to ourselves.

The idea stems from being not into niches and being too easy to please I guess.

Easy as in you let yourself get screwed over too easily or don't mind rejecting things for political issues.

I'll be the last one to say ignore any option of boycot, but if you can't get behind the concept of criticizing companies for being a**es and all the rest like exclusives limiting your choices of systems severely, well...

Also last time I checked people actually do need games to live a happy life. Not all of them maybe, but some do very much need their regular gaming.

Not in the same way like they need air and food, but still important enough to be happy.

But sure, happiness is just luxury and we're not entitled to getting things our way bla bla...

We're allowed to criticize though! :p

Glassed Silver:ios

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