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#1 Simon-

Simon-

    Neowinian Senior

  • Joined: 04-November 02

Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:44

I've noticed that there is a lotof personal attacks and name calling happening in the News comments. Just do a search on the page for words like "Stupid". There are also rules against "flame bait", which the Neowin news team are doing themselves by trying to make provocative articles to drive hits.

If sny of this was posted on the forums, it would be cleaned up quicker than it was posted.

I used to read all the comments, but there is no more sensible discussion going on in their, just a lot of flame wars. The intelligence level going on is like that of a 5 year old.

I kid you not, I see more sensible discussions on reddit and porn sites (Yes I read the comments on those too, there are some real gems on there).

I don't know if this is an enforcement problem or technical problem or both.

The forums obviously have a lot more features to be able to click onto someone's name and see their background (eg:Join date, Post count, search all their post history to see if they are a regular troll or just one post is going too far), but news posts can't be searched easily, so there is no accountability for the posts made. There is no report button on iOS/iPad either.




#2 cork1958

cork1958

    Neowinian

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:59

Edited:
I can see a warning coming if use the reply I had typed out!!

Have to agree with you though.

#3 OP Simon-

Simon-

    Neowinian Senior

  • Joined: 04-November 02

Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:03

Edited:
I can see a warning coming if use the reply I had typed out!!

Have to agree with you though.

You could have said it without fear of warning if this was a news post!

#4 cork1958

cork1958

    Neowinian

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:09

Very doubtful!!

#5 jakem1

jakem1

    Neowinian Senior

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:16

I've noticed that there is a lotof personal attacks and name calling happening in the News comments. Just do a search on the page for words like "Stupid". There are also rules against "flame bait", which the Neowin news team are doing themselves by trying to make provocative articles to drive hits.

If sny of this was posted on the forums, it would be cleaned up quicker than it was posted.

I used to read all the comments, but there is no more sensible discussion going on in their, just a lot of flame wars. The intelligence level going on is like that of a 5 year old.

I kid you not, I see more sensible discussions on reddit and porn sites (Yes I read the comments on those too, there are some real gems on there).

I don't know if this is an enforcement problem or technical problem or both.

The forums obviously have a lot more features to be able to click onto someone's name and see their background (eg:Join date, Post count, search all their post history to see if they are a regular troll or just one post is going too far), but news posts can't be searched easily, so there is no accountability for the posts made. There is no report button on iOS/iPad either.


I just read your post with the reply calling you stupid. Although I don't think a personal attack was warranted I think your post was full of the sort of flamebait you're complaining about.

#6 vetRossDundas

RossDundas

    Microsoft Certified Geek

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:18

This has been a problem since the very early days of the net. People will post things in a public forum and act in a manner that would have serious consequences in "The Real World". I run my own IT consultancy here in Aberdeen. I always have told my staff and contractors this and I think it can apply generally: People have to accept responsibility for their actions and the consequences for those actions.

Freedom of speech is a fundamental right but with that right comes responsibility. People have to realise that in extreme cases over this past year people have died because of what has been posted online. This is an extreme example but it is true. I've been asked by clients in HR investigation cases to trace ip addresses and look at server logs and you have to realise that the neowin staff should they be sufficiently motivated could do the same. This could lead to real world consequences for you now and in the future. People have to realise that in a few clicks I can access information that I myself have posted online nearly 15 years ago that makes me cringe and current and prospective employers do the same. What you post online lasts forever. Remember that.

It may become necessary to require that users provide their full real name and address as part of the registration process that is periodically verified against public databases and apply this retrospectively on next sign in to prevent defamatory and threatening behavior.You have to realise that this could have another nasty side effect if this continues an increase in costs which may force Steve and his team to make some unpopular decisions to ensure the sites survival.

#7 vetScorpus

Scorpus

    Tim Schiesser

  • Joined: 04-May 11
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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:32

There is an ongoing discussion among the staff in regards to comment quality, but I do have to agree that often the comments section can be hostile, full of flaming and generally unpleasant.

The problem is that if we start enforcing the rules heavily we'll be met with backlash. The usual "the mods will just delete the comment" sort of discussion will start, etc.

#8 +MikeChipshop

MikeChipshop

    Miniman

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:33

First off, don't compare staff news items with the comments underneath. The point of a lively news item is to promote varied and healthy discussion. Which is some thing the news team are employed to do.
However the point of failure is the members themselves that somehow can't keep a civil tounge in there heads.

Best thing to do if you see an abusive post is to report it straight away and allow the staff team to deal with it.

There is an ongoing discussion among the staff in regards to comment quality, but I do have to agree that often the comments section can be hostile, full of flaming and generally unpleasant.

The problem is that if we start enforcing the rules heavily we'll be met with backlash. The usual "the mods will just delete the comment" sort of discussion will start, etc.


I for one would welcome this. Along with the abolishment of all firearms/guns threads and political/religious debate. This sections have proven to get out of control and attract flaming, trolling and childish behavior. Maybe time they had their day?
A reason i stopped coming to Neowin for many years (and the reason i don't buy a subscription any more) is the amount of childish abuse that crops up for any reason. It's time for the moderators to take a more hard line stance on obvious trolling, name calling and flame baiting. You only have to read the comments on websites such as Smashi

#9 +d5aqoëp

d5aqoëp

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:42

I totally hate personal attacks. Classic example is if you publicly say against Microsoft, you are labelled Apple or Google fanboy.

#10 OP Simon-

Simon-

    Neowinian Senior

  • Joined: 04-November 02

Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:49

I just read your post with the reply calling you stupid. Although I don't think a personal attack was warranted I think your post was full of the sort of flamebait you're complaining about.

If you said that what I was saying is stupid, that would not be personal, but if you said that *I* am stupid, then it would be.

#11 jakem1

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:54

If you said that what I was saying is stupid, that would not be personal, but if you said that *I* am stupid, then it would be.


Yes, I agree with that which is why I said that the personal attack was unnecessary.

#12 Barney T.

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:59

We try to moderate as even handedly as possible. Unfortunately sometimes comments don't get seen as quickly as they should. Please feel free to use the report function or PM a moderator if you see something that needs addressing. We are all trying to make this as friendly a place as possible.

Please do not talk about specific moderators or moderator actions as this is not allowed here.

Thanks!

#13 Andre S.

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    Asik

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 14:04

There is an ongoing discussion among the staff in regards to comment quality

That's good to know. I hope it is fruitful and leads to concrete actions like new rules (i.e. "put some thought in your posts - low-content posts are material for a warning") and their subsequent enforcement.

The problem is that if we start enforcing the rules heavily we'll be met with backlash.

Why do you fear your community? Isn't that, in itself, a huge red flag that's something's wrong with this community? If you start putting the bar higher on post quality and that is met with backlash, then I say some pruning was in order anyway and the community will be better off without these elements.

#14 Rickkins

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 14:14

IMHO, there is a certain cadre that believes that they can flame-bait, rightly or wrongly, with total impunity. IMHO

#15 tiagosilva29

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 15:58

I don't even bother reading the news these days. "Microsoft" this and "Windows" that. Meh.