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#16 HawkMan

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 16:08

The problem is that news comments are horrible to moderate to start with, as there can be hundreds of comments to a single news piece. and while on the forum all posts are in single threads and you can just check the new content to keep up with moderation. in the news, every comment section is like a forum of it's own with multiple threads that get forked into new threads that get forked into new threads that....


#17 Luc2k

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 16:24

You can't expect much from the comments when some of the titles and/or articles themselves are flamebait, but flamebait brings many more page views than impartiality and objective approach.

#18 +d5aqoëp

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 17:44

You can't expect much from the comments when some of the titles and/or articles themselves are flamebait, but flamebait brings many more page views than impartiality and objective approach.


True and not true. Remember the impartial article regarding piracy? It was not flamebait. It was in fact the most popular article of last year. With that being said, anything from the trio (Apple Google Microsoft) draws maximum attention.

#19 Orange Battery

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 17:50

I think we should be able to post negative comments, but they do need to be constructive and not aimed at causing offence.

The one thing that annoys me the most, are the members that reply with messages aimed to make you look stupid.

There have been many occasions when I will reply to a topic with my general feedback or opinion, only to have someone break it down completely, and end up making out shouldn't be responding at all.

Most of the time I now days look at who is posting and respond based on the frustration I may have to deal with when reading the crazy responses of some users.

#20 TheExperiment

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 18:20

Could be worse...they asked if I wanted to help once.

#21 vetthe evn show

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 18:34

Why do you fear your community? Isn't that, in itself, a huge red flag that's something's wrong with this community? If you start putting the bar higher on post quality and that is met with backlash, then I say some pruning was in order anyway and the community will be better off without these elements.

Your position assumes the superiority of some sort of cultured or reflective discussion over trolling and half-assed comments. I agree with you, but I don't think it's unreasonable for a community that has had ~10 years of 'progress' in that direction to lash-out if some authority tried to take it away. Imagine how trying to take the word "***" away from 4-chan would go over. Moderators have a right to dictate the tone of discussion that occurs but that doesn't make it right to do so: websites belong as much to the users as to the owners because without the users the site has no value.

The one thing that annoys me the most, are the members that reply with messages aimed to make you look stupid. There have been many occasions when I will reply to a topic with my general feedback or opinion, only to have someone break it down completely, and end up making out shouldn't be responding at all.


Suppose you say something outrageous (like "The holocaust didn't happen. 'The jews' faked it for sympathay from the league. It's a lie told by the French to stigmatize Germans. Also it's a cover up of their control over the media..."). Suppose I build a counter argument that highlight all of the fallacies in your position, I point out factual errors, and then introduce credible support for the 'real story'. You come off looking like an idiotic jerk at the end of it all. Why is that a bad thing? You said something crazy, now everyone can see exactly why it's wrong. That your feelings might be hurt or you might lose face is no reason to let a crumby post go unchallenged.

My example is extreme - so far as I know there have never been holocaust denial posts on Neowin - but the principle applies generally: bad information should be challenged and fallacious arguments should be pointed out. If it means people are less likely to post things they haven't carefully considered then so much the better. You might argue that opinions about whether Google is good or evil don't need to hold up to standards of academic rigor but I can simply disagree and challenge you. It is possible to have poorly thought out opinions or to provide feedback about topics which is uninformed - in those cases I see no reason that you or I should have an obligation to keep quiet.

I used to make detailed deconstructions of crappy posts here (say 4 or 5 years ago). My goal wasn't to convince the poster they were wrong: that almost never worked - they'd just double-down on crazy - my goal was to put out good counter information for the undecided third party who stumbles into the thread and didn't know what to think. I stopped doing it because I no longer think there's a reason: there are too few people concerned with facts and understanding to make it worth the time spending an hour researching a reply. I save that sort of effort for other venues where I can educated other people and they will return the favor by pointing out flaws in my arguments.

For what it's worth: that's a community standard and not something the moderators can really enforce without shutting down all discussion. It seems like the community is on your side (people should be allowed to post opinions without defending them, all opinions are equally valid) and not on mine (some people have crappy opinions and deserve whatever shame comes from pointing out their disordered thought).

#22 1941

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 20:11

I see this in the forums. Some members can say and do as they please while others get warned. A tad of selective moderation.

#23 xendrome

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 20:17

I don't know if this is an enforcement problem or technical problem or both.


To be quite honest, in my experience, it's an issue with people not reporting the comments in question. Staff does this voluntarily and most of us have full time jobs, so to go through all the comments is impossible. We rely on the users to help us out be using the "Report" button next to any comment that violates the rules found here - http://www.neowin.ne...tion=boardrules

Stuff get's missed from time to time, I wouldn't assume it's because of any other reason then it wasn't reported or seen by a mod.

#24 1941

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 20:18

I agree but I was not speaking of myself. I see stuff that should be moderated but it is not. Maybe because no one reported it?

#25 Luis Mazza

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 20:28

It is very hard to get to realize when someone is trolling. I think it is trolling when the person is repeatedly trying to get you to post repetitive information, while deviating from the subject or the nature of your arguments. That is a flamebait and a troll behind it.

We should report this and pray for the moderator's intelligence to realize what's wrong. People that call you a troll because they disagree with two or three posts of yours, are actually the ones who are trolling. This is called defensive attack and they should be reported and warned. This will improve the quality of the discussions and make the kids (even the oldest 30something ones) behave. :)

#26 vetJohn S.

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 21:59

I think it depends on the moderator. Some are power freaks who should've never been given the responsibility in the first place. While others only do what is needed.
For example, some may increase your warning level, while others just tell you to knock it off.

Maybe you've just been unlucky and had one of the bad moderators find you.
we've all gone through it.


Actually it depends more on the users history than the moderator. Most all users are given a null (zero) warn their first time. All warnings are reviewed by other staffers, and many discussed by several staffers before being handed out. There are hundreds of daily users of the site who've been here for years and have never received any warn whatsoever.

#27 Enron

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 22:03

Actually it depends more on the users history than the moderator. Most all users are given a null (zero) warn their first time. All warnings are reviewed by other staffers, and many discussed by several staffers before being handed out. There are hundreds of daily users of the site who've been here for years and have never received any warn whatsoever.


How do I check my warning level? I know I got a warning for calling someone a troll once.

#28 Brian M.

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 22:28

How do I check my warning level? I know I got a warning for calling someone a troll once.


Don't quote me on it since I haven't seen the site from a member's point of view, but it should be under your avatar. If it's not, PM me and I'll give you some info.

The most important point nobody's mentioned in my mind - is that we're only human - and your amazing Team Green are volunteers - who have jobs/study etc! We can't see everything, and we do rely on reports to point us in the right direction (i.e. on my lunch break, I'm unlikely to spot something at random, but I could easily deal with a few reported issues). If you see anything - even if you're unsure - please report it! :)

#29 +Brando212

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 22:35

Don't quote me on it since I haven't seen the site from a member's point of view, but it should be under your avatar. If it's not, PM me and I'll give you some info

no it stopped appearing under our avatars a long time ago (i think around the time of the 3.2 upgrade or whenever we stopped using the atlas theme, i don't fully remember) doesn't even show on the profile page anymore

#30 BeerFan

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 22:36

I seem to remember a discussion a while back about how the ability to view one's own warn level had been removed. Is that not still the case?