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Can not update MP3 ID3v2 tags since installing Windows 8

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#16 +BudMan

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 13:09

"Effort. It's my PC, I want full control over it from the start"

UAC does not take control away from you - Clearly you do not understand UAC if your disabling it. If you are admin you still have just as much rights with UAC on. Its just that the processes you start don't have the admin token enabled unless you elevate that task to have it.

This is just plain common sense - why does your browser need to have the admin token to surf the internet? This means if something exploits that process it has rights to anything on the system. With UAC the process is started as just normal user, if you need that process to do something with admin rights it needs to be elevated to that token - simple as that!!

There is not loss of control over you system -- Your still an admin.. The 2 posts above that tell you to correct your permissions on your folders is the correct one!

You never mentioned in you utorrent thread that you have dicked with your system to the extent of disabling UAC.. That could have something to do with your issue with utorrent as well.

I would suggest you enable UAC and correct whatever ntfs permissions you have misconfigured to allow the access you want. This would correct both this issue as well as your registry issue - simple elevation is all that is required to have FULL control over your registry when UAC is enabled.

uac.png

Not running as admin every time you run a process is not loss of control - its just common security practice.. Same thing with linux, do you login in with root and do everything as root. No you sudo the commands that need root access, or su to root do your thing and then switch back. This is all uac is, its sudo for the windows world.


#17 ]SK[

]SK[

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 13:21

Sounds like permissions to me.
I know my documents and music folders had to be changed after I installed Windows 8 from fresh. This is indeed a Windows issue in that NTFS is doing its job correctly! UAC is there to prevent the end user, who doesn't know what they are doing, from making changes that can break the OS. Actually, this thread is a good example of why UAC even exists. As the above you should be fixing the issue not working around it.

#18 OP Elliot B.

Elliot B.

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 13:24

"Effort. It's my PC, I want full control over it from the start"

UAC does not take control away from you - Clearly you do not understand UAC if your disabling it. If you are admin you still have just as much rights with UAC on. Its just that the processes you start don't have the admin token enabled unless you elevate that task to have it.

This is just plain common sense - why does your browser need to have the admin token to surf the internet? This means if something exploits that process it has rights to anything on the system. With UAC the process is started as just normal user, if you need that process to do something with admin rights it needs to be elevated to that token - simple as that!!

There is not loss of control over you system -- Your still an admin.. The 2 posts above that tell you to correct your permissions on your folders is the correct one!

You never mentioned in you utorrent thread that you have dicked with your system to the extent of disabling UAC.. That could have something to do with your issue with utorrent as well.

I would suggest you enable UAC and correct whatever ntfs permissions you have misconfigured to allow the access you want. This would correct both this issue as well as your registry issue - simple elevation is all that is required to have FULL control over your registry when UAC is enabled.

uac.png

Not running as admin every time you run a process is not loss of control - its just common security practice.. Same thing with linux, do you login in with root and do everything as root. No you sudo the commands that need root access, or su to root do your thing and then switch back. This is all uac is, its sudo for the windows world.


Mis-configured? I just installed Windows! That is all! And disabling UAC would not affect the uTorrent issue and you know it!

You are the only member here in 11 years that winds me up. Just the way you talk down to people who you believe you're helping. I would even go as far as appreciating it if you would not try to "help" me in the future on here.


Sounds like permissions to me.
I know my documents and music folders had to be changed after I installed Windows 8 from fresh. This is indeed a Windows issue in that NTFS is doing its job correctly! UAC is there to prevent the end user, who doesn't know what they are doing, from making changes that can break the OS. Actually, this thread is a good example of why UAC even exists. As the above you should be fixing the issue not working around it.


When I tried to fix the permissions, Windows 8 wouldn't let me. This is a clean install of Windows 8, I haven't messed around with anything apart from (now) disabling UAC.

We shouldn't have to give ourselves permission to edit the tags. It's fine for us, as we're quite geeky, so we can find a way to fix it, but how does Microsoft expect non-computer literate users to ever be able to do it? I believe Windows will possibly configure the permissions if you use Libraries, but sometimes we don't want to use them!

#19 ]SK[

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 13:39

NTFS will keep existing permissions on files if the disc existed in the previous version of Windows. I assume the files are located on a separate hard drive away from the OS? Taking ownership of the files will most likely resolve the issue without disabling UAC.

Budman can be quite straight with his answers but to be honest you'll find he's right. The guys giving you good advice and I too can see why he wants to put his foot down in that simply turning off UAC is not a suitable answer. TBH is no different from saying my AntiVirus won't let me open this file as it has a virus, turning off your AV would not be an answer.

#20 OP Elliot B.

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 13:39


NTFS will keep existing permissions on files if the disc existed in the previous version of Windows. I assume the files are located on a separate hard drive away from the OS? Taking ownership of the files will most likely resolve the issue without disabling UAC.

Budman can be quite straight with his answers but to be honest you'll find he's right. The guys giving you good advice and I too can see why he wants to put his foot down in that simply turning off UAC is not a suitable answer. TBH is no different from saying my AntiVirus won't let me open this file as it has a virus, turning off your AV would not be an answer.

I respect his knowledge a lot. However, I trust myself 100%. I don't want any messages popping up asking if I want to run things, if I want to edit things etc.

I want complete control at all times.

#21 ]SK[

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 13:48

Ok Prometheus :)

#22 Dutchie64

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 13:56

so...... on a OSX or Linux pc you would always run as the uber-admin? Nice and quiet without any login screens to nag you when fiddling with the system innards?

UAC is there for a reason, mainly to keep people out of trouble. Disabling UAC isn't the right way to address certain permission issues.
The fact that you got away with it in W7 doesn't mean you keep running like this in W8.
And please don't use the ancient "It's my PC, I want full control over it from the start" discussion, I'ver heard that way too much in my admin days. Those people were the one popping up at the helpdesk with a regular interval ;-)

You're basically by-stepping the whole security system in Windows, but are complaining it isn't working for you.
Also, as people mentioned, turning off UAC will also disable the Metro apps. And for a good reason.....

rob

edit: woot, lots of comments while I was typing... So some overlap might occur ;-)

#23 +BudMan

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 14:01

"I want complete control at all times."

Who says you don't?? If you are in the admin group, then your a freaking ADMIN - period and you have admin rights any time you actually NEED them!!

If you think UAC in any way shape or form is taking away anything from your ability to admin your machine, or access your machine then again you don't understand UAC!!

There is NO reason what so ever that every single process your account starts needs to have the admin token enabled - and anyone that knows anything about security will tell you that you don't run as admin unless your doing admin!

Think about it for 2 seconds - your browsing the web, does your browser need full local admin rights while doing that? What if get exploited?? It could make changes to your registry. What % of time do you think that your doing stuff on your computer that you actually need ADMIN?? To be honest its RARE!!!

UAC is a GOOD thing, it does not take anything away from your access - its just allows your admin access in a more secure manner. Without it you should login with a normal account. And then only login with admin account when your doing admin stuff!! UAC allows you to use 1 account and just elevate it to admin when so required.

#24 ITFiend

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 14:14

Effort.


By disabling that so-called "effort", you reduce the security of your machine. All web browsers run under an Administrator account now have full access to damage or change your OS, which is then made drastically worse if you install Oracle's Java.

Also, aspects of Internet Explorer's security require UAC be enabled to function, one such example is the UAC Virtualization Store (disk sandboxing). I'm not sure if it's still true since I don't disable UAC, but IE Protected Mode entirely required it and probably still does. Enhanced Protected Mode within IE10 probably also breaks with UAC disabled.

It's my PC, I want full control over it from the start


How in the world does UAC prevent you from having full control? I logon as a Limited User, I elevate only the bare minimum through "Run as Administrator" with my Administrator credentials. I de-elevate internet facing programs through "Run as Other User" like Internet Explorer and Skype to use an even lesser account that has no access to my data drives. I appear to have full control over everything, without ever logging in directly to a desktop as Administrator. I even use AppLocker to prevent all users from executing games from Steam's program directory except for one user explicitly intended to run Steam titles, because Steam is stupid when it comes to disk security and constantly grants everyone full control over its directories rather than requiring itself to use a system level service broker (Mind, I use AppLocker far more extensively, this is just one example).

Now I’m not saying anyone should do all that, nor am I saying UAC is perfect, but UAC prevents Administrators from doing nothing. Only ignorance over the way your operating system works limits control, and if control is important, the real solution is to disable ignorance.

#25 +MikeChipshop

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 14:16

Effort. It's my PC, I want full control over it from the start :)


Which you have even with UAC enabled.
Also, your install must have gone wrong along the way as i don;t have any of those problems on my system.

#26 Dutchie64

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 14:25

well.... it's not weird you screw up your system, the moment you start messing about with UAC and rights....... ;-)

#27 +BudMan

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 14:30

Clearly you have no concept of least privilege

https://en.wikipedia...least_privilege

So every account on the machine should be a admin?? Should every login to a ftp server have full access to every file? Why doesn't my account here on neowin have the ability to change your accounts details?

If you understand why I don't have access to your account here on neowin, than hey your on your way to understanding least privilege and applying it.

A user only needs the "least" amount of access to accomplish a task.. Do I need access to your account here on neowin for me to use neowin. No clearly that is not the case.

Why does your account need access to edit the registry while your browsing the web? Why does the utorrent client you started need access to edit the registry or add files to the windows system32 folder.. Well normally they do not - so why should they have this access?? That is is not least priv.

With UAC your account if in the admin group has the ability to access anything it needs to as admin - but following the common basic security practice of least privilege it does not need this access unless your specifically trying to accomplish that specific task. So when not doing admin which is 99% of the time your account just uses its user level token, in the event you need to do an admin thing you then elevate that task and use the admin token.

There is no loss of anything - just better security.

#28 Dutchie64

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 15:07

UAC and user rights within Windows are massively misunderstood.

People turning stuff off without actually knowing why, as shows on forums and tech sites alike.
All this is still one of the main reasons for system screw ups and virusses/trojans alike, resulting in bickering on Windows itself.

Golden rule: When a UAC window pops up on a 'regular' program, something is fishy ;-)