Speculation: Xbox technology that might be interesting for 2014

[Yogurtmaster]

I was thinking what technology Microsoft could do to spur console sales with the Next Xbox by Christmas 2014 and I came up with this.

• Using their new projector technology (IllumiRoom) on the floor or a coffee table
  

_{Videos here (check out the note below before watching the videos)}

_{http://research.micr....aspx?id=179795}

_and

_{http://research.microsoft.com/apps/video/default.aspx?id=179806}

_{More detailed information can be found here:}

_{http://www.patentlya...d-its-wild.html}

_{Source for Note:}

_{http://microsoft-new...project-at-ces/}

_NOTE:

_{Our system uses the appearance and the geometry of the room (captured by Kinect) to adapt the projected visuals in real-time without any need to custom pre-process the graphics. What you see in the videos below has been}

_{captured live and is not the result of any special effects added in post production.}

• Using Kinect 2.0 which is improved movement and can now detect fingers and can work with and scan much smaller spaces and environments
  

• Using (OPTIONAL) Wireless 3-D Glasses (This would be optional, but you could see the projection in 3-D, while interacting using Kinect 2.0)
  

Would basically look like this PlayStation Vita Augmented reality demo, but in real life and not looking through a small screen.

It would not be used for demos but games that were made for it by mainstream developers and also Indie developers

_{https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2-CHrsUUrQ}

1) Question: Do you think that if casuals saw something like this, that they would go out and buy it?

2) Question: As a hardcore game player, would you buy something like this for the right price?

[TheLegendOfMart]

No and no.

The IllumiRoom is just a research project, not a retail project. It would make the cost of the console probably double what the competition costs.

There will be no gimmicks or special addons, both consoles will have very similar specs and similar prices, only differentiating on software.

[Nick H. Supervisor]

1) Question: Do you think that if casuals saw something like this, that they would go out and buy it?

2) Question: As a hardcore game player, would you buy something like this for the right price?

1)Maybe. The IllumiRoom could be good for films as well as games, as could the kinect and 3D glasses.

2)No. I don't like 3D, and I don't enjoy flapping my arms around the place in order to get my game to work, so both of those tools would be wasted on me.

Don't forget the cost of including all of that, though. That could greatly affect a casual user's decision to buy the console or not.

[Yogurtmaster]

1)Maybe. The IllumiRoom could be good for films as well as games, as could the kinect and 3D glasses.

2)No. I don't like 3D, and I don't enjoy flapping my arms around the place in order to get my game to work, so both of those tools would be wasted on me.

Don't forget the cost of including all of that, though. That could greatly affect a casual user's decision to buy the console or not.

I am not saying that it would be bundled with the next Xbox or that it would be included.

I am saying that maybe the next Xbox would have Kinect 2.0 in the box and then you buy

the projector with the 3-D glasses and a game or two in a separate SKU that comes November 2014.

Also, not talking about flapping arms. I mentioned fingers or you could use objects. You could play on the floor or on a coffee table with friends.

No and no.

The IllumiRoom is just a research project, not a retail project. It would make the cost of the console probably double what the competition costs.

There will be no gimmicks or special addons, both consoles will have very similar specs and similar prices, only differentiating on software.

You really sure about that? Because I am not at all.

I am talking about a separate SKU here. Here is an example of what I am talking about....

CONSOLE SKU has the console, Kinect 2.0, cables, and regular controller

PROJECTOR SKU has the projector, 2 games, and 3-D Glasses (or maybe another Projector SKU without the glasses)

[George P Global Moderator]

I think that Kinect 2.0 is a sure thing at this point but I wonder if the'll price it more than the current version so they don't have to reduce the price until their supply is low Enoch to take the hit. Keep in mind that the new Xbox will also sell for a initial loss, though I bet not as much as the 360 did. This is why I don't expect them to be in a rush to also take a hit on the Kinect as well.

As far as what else MS can add to it I expect it will be able to do even more out of the box than the 360. For example I'm sure they plan on a reduced power state that's dependent on the task at hand. Watching videos doesn't mean the who cpu or gpu cores need to run or run at max speed.

Another thing I would like to see and could also show up is "multithreading". Being able to jump to the dashboard or one of the apps without having to exit the game you're playing. Other than that it should just be a better all around media box in general. Maybe toss in some of the media center background and scheduled dvr options.

[Nick H. Supervisor]

I am not saying that it would be bundled with the next Xbox or that it would be included.

I am saying that maybe the next Xbox would have Kinect 2.0 in the box and then you buy

the projector with the 3-D glasses and a game or two in a separate SKU that comes November 2014.

I'm not sure what the purpose of the question is then. Are you asking "would people buy an Xbox360 with Kinect 2.0, then go out and buy 3D glasses and IllumiRoom?"? The answer to that would be "sure, if the devices were supported by the console."

Also, not talking about flapping arms. I mentioned fingers or you could use objects. You could play on the floor or on a coffee table with friends.

Again, if the support is there then sure, why not. But again, I wouldn't get it as I have no interest in the technology at the moment.

[TheLegendOfMart]

I am not saying that it would be bundled with the next Xbox or that it would be included.

I am saying that maybe the next Xbox would have Kinect 2.0 in the box and then you buy

the projector with the 3-D glasses and a game or two in a separate SKU that comes November 2014.

Also, not talking about flapping arms. I mentioned fingers or you could use objects. You could play on the floor or on a coffee table with friends.

You really sure about that? Because I am not at all.

I am talking about a separate SKU here. Here is an example of what I am talking about....

CONSOLE SKU has the console, Kinect 2.0, cables, and regular controller

PROJECTOR SKU has the projector, 2 games, and 3-D Glasses (or maybe another Projector SKU without the glasses)

If you enjoy paying ?1000/$1000 for a console yes.

The Nextbox and PS4 are rumoured to cost around $400, then you are looking at least $400-500 for a decent 720p Projector, throw in games, glasses, etc.. are you are talking stupid money.

IllumiRoom is just a research project nothing more. If its a seperate SKU then like Kinect all you are going to get are silly niche games for the device, no developers are going to put time and money into something no one is going to buy and no ones going to spend $500 on a projector addon if no developers are going to support it.

For it to be successful and supported it has to be included with the console at day one and in all SKUs, why would you spend $1000 on an xbox if you can get PS4 for $400?

[Yogurtmaster]

I'm not sure what the purpose of the question is then. Are you asking "would people buy an Xbox360 with Kinect 2.0, then go out and buy 3D glasses and IllumiRoom?"? The answer to that would be "sure, if the devices were supported by the console."

Again, if the support is there then sure, why not. But again, I wouldn't get it as I have no interest in the technology at the moment.

Yes and here is my point. Kinect 1.0 was sold separately as another SKU and many people who already owned an Xbox 360 picked it up. I am saying the same thing here.

The Xbox Next console gets released as a SKU in November 2013 with the console itself, Kinect 2.0, cables and a regular controller.

The Xbox "visual experience" gets released as a separate SKU in November 2014 with a projector and two games or a projector two games and 3-D glasses.

Combined this would make things interesting... However do you think this would all sell to casuals? Do you think it would sell to the hardcore.

If you enjoy paying ?1000/$1000 for a console yes.

The Nextbox and PS4 are rumoured to cost around $400, then you are looking at least $400-500 for a decent 720p Projector, throw in games, glasses, etc.. are you are talking stupid money.

IllumiRoom is just a research project nothing more. If its a seperate SKU then like Kinect all you are going to get are silly niche games for the device, no developers are going to put time and money into something no one is going to buy and no ones going to spend $500 on a projector addon if no developers are going to support it.

For it to be successful and supported it has to be included with the console at day one and in all SKUs, why would you spend $1000 on an xbox if you can get PS4 for $400?

I disagree with this. Kinect was sold separately and had great sales (without including it in the console SKU), if Microsoft shows what it could do then things could really fly.

It's a low resolution projector not 720p. I suppose you really didn't read about it.

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

TheLegendOfMart has a point. The only way IllumiRoom would be successful is if every console was bundled with a projector and Kinect. It's in Microsoft's best interest to keep the cost of the next Xbox as low as possible. If they make it significantly more expensive than the competition, then people are more likely to spend their money on a different console.

IllumiRoom is simply a proof-of-concept. It's highly unlikely that they'll release it as a retail product by late-2014. The technology used in Kinect was invented in 2005 and it wasn't until 2009 that Microsoft announced a product for it (remember Project Natal).

Also, the price of the product is a huge factor because of its reliance on projectors. And most projectors are expensive and unnecessary for the sole purpose of using IllumiRoom. I don't think it'll sell as well as the next version of Kinect.

[Yogurtmaster]

Here is what I don't understand. If Microsoft isn't going to do this, then why did they show it at CES with Samsung (meaning Samsung is probably providing the low resolution projector)

and why are they showing it again in April 2013?

That doesn't make sense.

The 3-D part comes from here (Source: http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2012/09/microsoft-envisions-where-gaming-is-going-and-its-wild.html)

Immersive 3D Environments

Microsoft states that while the example primary display and environmental display shown in FIG. 1 includes 2-D display devices, "it will be appreciated that suitable 3-D displays may be used without departing from the scope of the invention." Furthermore, Microsoft states that in some embodiments, "the user may enjoy an immersive 3-D experience using suitable headgear, such as active shutterglasses configured to operate in synchronization with suitable alternate-frame image sequencing at primary display and environmental display."

The patent filing goes on to state that in some embodiments, immersive 3-D experiences may be provided with suitable complementary color glasses used to view suitable stereographic images displayed by the primary and environmental displays.

In some embodiments, the user may enjoy an immersive 3-D display experience without using headgear. For example, the primary TV display may be equipped with suitable parallax barriers or lenticular lenses to provide an autostereoscopic display while the environmental display renders parallax views of the peripheral image in suitably quick succession to accomplish a 3-D display of the peripheral image via "wiggle" stereoscopy.

[Yogurtmaster]

TheLegendOfMart has a point. The only way IllumiRoom would be successful is if every console was bundled with a projector and Kinect. It's in Microsoft's best interest to keep the cost of the next Xbox as low as possible. If they make it significantly more expensive than the competition, then people are more likely to spend their money on a different console.

IllumiRoom is simply a proof-of-concept. It's highly unlikely that they'll release it as a retail product by late-2014. The technology used in Kinect was invented in 2005 and it wasn't until 2009 that Microsoft announced a product for it (remember Project Natal).

Also, the price of the product is a huge factor because of its reliance on projectors. And most projectors are expensive and unnecessary for the sole purpose of using IllumiRoom. I don't think it'll sell as well as the next version of Kinect.

I disagree again. Kinect came out late, but there is no evidence that something like a low resolution projector would come out that late. The Kinect SKU made money on it's own. So, it still does not make sense. This is a visual thing with the assist of Kinect so I fail to see how it has to sell with the console.

There have been many changes over at the Xbox group from when the 360 came out and technology has changed over time.

[Yogurtmaster]

Here is a low resolution RGB LED mini projector for $90 US dollars BRAND NEW. Yes the Microsoft one does cover more area.

http://www.amazon.co...r/dp/B0024I8H42

Microsoft would be working with Samsung on the projector and technology (maybe even using Pico Projector technology, I don't know).

Microsoft has been working with Kinect and Projectors for a long time, but I bet they are going to be producing something like this for their next Xbox, maybe not at launch but later.

Because they would have put a video up on a website and that was it, instead they are getting people excited early by being involved in the Samsung Keynote and also that conference in April 2003. Yes, I know it uses Windows based Kinect and such. However, I do feel this is a project that is coming for the next Xbox.

It does not make sense that Samsung would be involved at all unless they worked together with Microsoft to make an actual working prototype that they are going to end up selling.

Here is the conference that they are showing it next... http://chi2013.acm.org/ - Christmas 2014 :-)

"Proof of concept" statement was made because they didn't want to announce anything yet, but we know it's a real product that is coming, the question is when and I think it would make sense for it to come on November 2014.

[M_Lyons10]

I don't think the IllumiRoom technology is anywhere near ready (Or economical) at this point to be released as a retail product, let alone as a launch add on. POSSIBLY towards the end of the next XBox's life as they did with the original Kinect, but even then they would have to have a lot of confidence that they would move a lot of units, which I really don't see happening (At least not on the scale that would be necessary for games to be made to take advantage of this technology...).

Maybe next generation, MAYBE. But I don't see it happening this generation.

[TheLegendOfMart]

I disagree with this. Kinect was sold separately and had great sales (without including it in the console SKU), if Microsoft shows what it could do then things could really fly.

It's a low resolution projector not 720p. I suppose you really didn't read about it.

Seems you didn't read it either because it says nothing about being 'low resolution'.

Kinect has sold 18m units out of over 70m xbox 360s sold, thats hardly 'great' sales. Most Kinect games are either party/kids games or "better with Kinect" games that have silly things like voice commands integrated into the game.

Here is a low resolution RGB LED mini projector for $90 US dollars BRAND NEW. Yes the Microsoft one does cover more area.

http://www.amazon.co...r/dp/B0024I8H42

Microsoft would be working with Samsung on the projector and technology (maybe even using Pico Projector technology, I don't know)

There is NO way a small projector like that would be able to produce the clarity of video shown in the IllumiRoom concept, especially during the day you would need a pretty powerful, high resolution projector to get the kind of fidelity shown in the video.

Just look at the reviews of it, Cons: Low resolution, poor contrast, LED lamp requires near total darkness, patches of image are tinted red or green.

A decent 'low resolution' projector you are talking at least ?/$250-300.

I'm not trying to pee in your cereal but its too cost prohibitive to include it in this generation, the tech just isn't cheap enough yet.

[Crisp]

Some people just don't understand concepts. :/

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

I disagree again. Kinect came out late, but there is no evidence that something like a low resolution projector would come out that late. The Kinect SKU made money on it's own. So, it still does not make sense. This is a visual thing with the assist of Kinect so I fail to see how it has to sell with the console.

There have been many changes over at the Xbox group from when the 360 came out and technology has changed over time.

If it doesn't make a profit, then it isn't commercially viable. Microsoft wouldn't purposely release a product that isn't ready for the market. And no one knows if this will even become a product. You may think it's a good idea to include technology like IllumiRoom with the next Xbox but I think it's unlikely.

And here's why: Firstly, it requires a Kinect and a projector. Microsoft would need to do a lot to entice customers into buying a projector in addition to a Kinect.

Secondly, would developers have to make their games IllumiRoom-compatible? If so, then that would further complicate things.

Thirdly, the concept is very cool but it isn't practical. Not everyone has a huge wall just waiting to have something projected onto it. And not everyone has the privacy to turn the lights off during the day. What about people with pets? Just imagine how crazy cats would react to fast or slow-moving lights. If you don't know what I mean, then search "cat laser" on YouTube.

Finally, consider all of those things and tell me if you still think it would do well in the market. TheLegendOfMart made a good point about the Kinect being used mostly for casual games. Would a hardcore gamer really want to spend money on Kinect and a projector for what is, arguably, a gimmicky feature?

[Yogurtmaster]

If it doesn't make a profit, then it isn't commercially viable. Microsoft wouldn't purposely release a product that isn't ready for the market. And no one knows if this will even become a product. You may think it's a good idea to include technology like IllumiRoom with the next Xbox but I think it's unlikely.

And here's why: Firstly, it requires a Kinect and a projector. Microsoft would need to do a lot to entice customers into buying a projector in addition to a Kinect.

Secondly, would developers have to make their games IllumiRoom-compatible? If so, then that would further complicate things.

Thirdly, the concept is very cool but it isn't practical. Not everyone has a huge wall just waiting to have something projected onto it. And not everyone has the privacy to turn the lights off during the day. What about people with pets? Just imagine how crazy cats would react to fast or slow-moving lights. If you don't know what I mean, then search "cat laser" on YouTube.

Finally, consider all of those things and tell me if you still think it would do well in the market. TheLegendOfMart made a good point about the Kinect being used mostly for casual games. Would a hardcore gamer really want to spend money on Kinect and a projector for what is, arguably, a gimmicky feature?

How do we exactly know that it's not commercially viable? Microsoft sold Kinect for $150, it was actually worth more like $50 according to companies involved with the specifics.

The Kinect comes with the console, not really that hard to be honest.

Yes, developers would have to code for it. Some of them did for Kinect.

Yes, you wouldn't have to use it during the day or you can do what everyone else does and use blinds and curtains. How on earth does anyone else use projectors?

"Okay guys we can all go home now, everyone has a cat!" - Dumbest thing I have heard this year so far. geeez guys.

Everything is filled with gimmicks including the Occulus Rift, but everyone seems to love that gimmick.

I would buy it in a heart beat and I would also buy Occulus Rift as well. I don't mind buying gimmicks that offer something new. That is why I am not going to buy a steam box (now that is a waste of money).

[George P Global Moderator]

Maybe it's just me but the fact MS showed off IllumiRoom at CES of all places and on stage with one of their bigger partners should show you that they do in fact plan on making a big deal out of this and use it. Normally if this was just another MSR concept that was years off they'd simply release a low key video like they normally do up on their website and have a blog post.

[TheLegendOfMart]

Yes, you wouldn't have to use it during the day or you can do what everyone else does and use blinds and curtains. How on earth does anyone else use projectors?

They buy expensive ones that you can use during the day.....any cheap projector is going to require near darkness, not everyone has the ability to control the light in the room to that extent.

No one is going to spend twice what the Kinect cost just to have things happen outside of the TV, with Kinect you could interact with it and use it in a variety of different ways, with the projector all you can do is extend the TV screen onto the wall.

Kinect sold less than a third of the total Xbox install base, I'd expect this projector to sell even less, its not a mainstream device and thus not commercially viable to sell as a product.

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

How do we exactly know that it's not commercially viable? Microsoft sold Kinect for $150, it was actually worth more like $50 according to companies involved with the specifics.

The Kinect comes with the console, not really that hard to be honest.

Yes, developers would have to code for it. Some of them did for Kinect.

Yes, you wouldn't have to use it during the day or you can do what everyone else does and use blinds and curtains. How on earth does anyone else use projectors?

"Okay guys we can all go home now, everyone has a cat!" - Dumbest thing I have heard this year so far. geeez guys.

Everything is filled with gimmicks including the Occulus Rift, but everyone seems to love that gimmick.

I would buy it in a heart beat and I would also buy Occulus Rift as well. I don't mind buying gimmicks that offer something new. That is why I am not going to buy a steam box (now that is a waste of money).

No one knows for sure but that doesn't mean we can't give an educated guess. If IllumiRoom required you to buy four different components for it to work, then chances are it won't do as well, on the market, as a version that requires just one or two components.

I doubt it would be expensive for developers to make their games IllumiRoom-compatible; however, they'd save money wherever they can. They wouldn't support something that a very small percentage of users would take advantage of. The only big name game I can think of that supported Kinect's voice controls is Mass Effect 3. And even that barely added anything to the gameplay.

You can play a game without having to turn off your lights and close your blinds or curtains. And without having to shroud family members or friends in darkness. Using a projector to watch a movie is different because more than one person can enjoy that. But using IllumiRoom to immerse yourself in a game at the cost of others... it's not entirely selfish but you'd need some time to yourself to fully enjoy it (assuming you live in a house with one or more people, other than yourself).

Dumbest thing you've heard? I'll assume you don't know anyone that owns a cat. A majority of my friends have pets and most of them are cats. Also, no one said anything about everyone having a cat.

The Occulus Rift shouldn't be compared to IllumiRoom. For one thing, it had a very successful Kickstarter campaign (with the intention to bring it to market as soon as possible). They not only met their initial $250K goal, but exceeded it by about $2.15M. It has also been well-received by game developers, journalists, and most gamers that have come across it on the web. It offers a level of immersion that could never be achieved with a projector and motion-sensing camera. And I certainly wouldn't call it a gimmick.

I'm not saying, with certainty, that Microsoft won't release IllumiRoom. I simply believe that it's unlikely. In any case, we'll probably find out either in late-March or early-June.

[MikeChipshop Member]

Maybe it's just me but the fact MS showed off IllumiRoom at CES of all places and on stage with one of their bigger partners should show you that they do in fact plan on making a big deal out of this and use it. Normally if this was just another MSR concept that was years off they'd simply release a low key video like they normally do up on their website and have a blog post.

I'm more inclined to agree with this.

It's not that far off an idea, hell we already have TV's that project colour on to the wall behind them, this is another logical step forward.

However, i highly doubt they'll ship this with or build it into the next XBOX. Like Kinect, it'll be sold as a stand alone product for those that can afford it and those that want to be on the cutting edge, which i'm afraid probably won't be me :p

[Yogurtmaster]

Maybe it's just me but the fact MS showed off IllumiRoom at CES of all places and on stage with one of their bigger partners should show you that they do in fact plan on making a big deal out of this and use it. Normally if this was just another MSR concept that was years off they'd simply release a low key video like they normally do up on their website and have a blog post.

I believe this as well. Why not just show a video on your website and publish a tweet about it? It's going to be made into a product and it's in the production stage. Why would Microsoft show it at the Samsung keynote? Because Samsung projector technology is involved.

[Yogurtmaster]

No one knows for sure but that doesn't mean we can't give an educated guess. If IllumiRoom required you to buy four different components for it to work, then chances are it won't do as well, on the market, as a version that requires just one or two components.

I doubt it would be expensive for developers to make their games IllumiRoom-compatible; however, they'd save money wherever they can. They wouldn't support something that a very small percentage of users would take advantage of. The only big name game I can think of that supported Kinect's voice controls is Mass Effect 3. And even that barely added anything to the gameplay.

You can play a game without having to turn off your lights and close your blinds or curtains. And without having to shroud family members or friends in darkness. Using a projector to watch a movie is different because more than one person can enjoy that. But using IllumiRoom to immerse yourself in a game at the cost of others... it's not entirely selfish but you'd need some time to yourself to fully enjoy it (assuming you live in a house with one or more people, other than yourself).

Dumbest thing you've heard? I'll assume you don't know anyone that owns a cat. A majority of my friends have pets and most of them are cats. Also, no one said anything about everyone having a cat.

The Occulus Rift shouldn't be compared to IllumiRoom. For one thing, it had a very successful Kickstarter campaign (with the intention to bring it to market as soon as possible). They not only met their initial $250K goal, but exceeded it by about $2.15M. It has also been well-received by game developers, journalists, and most gamers that have come across it on the web. It offers a level of immersion that could never be achieved with a projector and motion-sensing camera. And I certainly wouldn't call it a gimmick.

I'm not saying, with certainty, that Microsoft won't release IllumiRoom. I simply believe that it's unlikely. In any case, we'll probably find out either in late-March or early-June.

It won't be built in with Kinect and you will probably not see it in Late March as it won't be built in with the console. It's a technology that will be for later consumption like for example maybe 2014 or maybe even later. I would personally love it to be built in, but the price is just too high for that to happen.

Some people can't use Kinect because their disabled and some people can't use projectors because they have cats. That doesn't stop progress though.