NJ teacher fired for giving student Bible

[Hum]

A longtime substitute teacher in Phillipsburg, NJ, has been fired after he shared a Bible verse with a student ? and upon request gave the child a Bible.

The Phillipsburg School Board voted Monday night to terminate the employment of Walter Tutka. He was accused of breaking two policies ? distributing religious literature on school grounds and another policy that directs teachers to be neutral when discussing religious material.

?It?s unfortunate the Phillipsburg School District chose the path of religious hostility and intolerance against a retired man serving his community and simply responding to a student?s intellectual curiosity,? Hiram Sasser, director of litigation at Liberty Institute, told Fox News. ?What?s next ? are they going to ban Shakespeare because his plays have Bible quotations??

Joe Imhof, a close friend of Tutka, was at the school board meeting.

The school board, he told Fox News, was basically telling God to ?go to hell.?

?Just because this guy gave a student a pocket New Testament on his lunch hour ? that?s enough to throw you out of school,? Imhof said. ?They have said tonight, ?God, we don?t want you in this school.??

Imhof and Tutka serve together in Gideons International ? a ministry known for providing Bibles to school children across the world.

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[shakey]

Good. Religion has no place in the public, and should be left to the family and individual to study on. The rules are clear, and the teacher broke them.

[jerzdawg]

Good. Religion has no place in the public, and should be left to the family and individual to study on. The rules are clear, and the teacher broke them.

Id agree except for the part that the student asked for a copy. However, since a policy was in place about distributing on school grounds they had a reason. If this guy was a regular teacher in the union with tenure this would have only been a slap on the wrist. Here in NJ if you have tenure you are basically a "made-man" and untouchable short of a felony. Pretty sure I just read a story about a teacher throwing a book at a students head had just returned to work after suspension... but thats not grounds for termination?

An Atlantic City High School teacher returns to class today following a 120-day suspension for throwing a book that hit a student in the head.

Piano teacher Christopher Lorge admitted tossing the paperback in February because the student was talking on a phone and wearing earphones.

The district suspended Lorge and started proceedings to terminate him.

But The Press of Atlantic City reports a state Education Department arbitrator found while the teacher displayed a "serious lack of judgment," he showed remorse and had worked 10 years without disciplinary action. The arbitrator declined to fire him.

http://www.nj.com/atlantic/index.ssf/2013/01/nj_teacher_returns_to_class_after_throwing_book_at_students_head.html#incart_m-rpt-1

[paustin]

Good. Religion has no place in the public, and should be left to the family and individual to study on. The rules are clear, and the teacher broke them.

here here

[Charisma Veteran]

Oh ffs, its a book, and the kid asked for one. The teacher wasn't pushing anything on anyone. Political correctness is getting really old.

[Sandor]

I'm atheist but this seems a bit excessive.

Guess it's "any excuse to cut the wage bill"

[Rippleman]

agreed, just as the teacher can't give out the ebola virus, employment conditions are employment conditions. Had he done it after school, off school grounds, whatever that's cool.

to those that will comeback with "what harm does it do?" Think about the other teachers who want to start handing out pamphlets on other cults or even there own cult. They are there to teach, not influence.

[Noir Angel]

On the one hand I believe religion should be kept out of school, "God" doesn't belong in school, as to force everyone to worship a god they don't believe in would be wrong. However I also believe in discretion, and in this case as the student asked for the bible I really see no problem with the teacher providing him with one. There was no need to fire him for it as he wasn't forcing his beliefs upon the student.

[Colin McGregor]

On the one hand I believe religion should be kept out of school, "God" doesn't belong in school, as to force everyone to worship a god they don't believe in would be wrong. However I also believe in discretion, and in this case as the student asked for the bible I really see no problem with the teacher providing him with one. There was no need to fire him for it as he wasn't forcing his beliefs upon the student.

This. However the law was no trading religious material so the teacher could have waited till they got off grounds or something or told the kid where to get a copy.

[Cheatyface]

If the teacher had two brain cells to rub together, he would have thought about it for two secs and told the student "Come see me after school, I can give you one then." As it is, he knew the rules. "Don't hand out religious material in school." It's not not a hard rule to follow, and certainly not one worth risking your job over.

[Windows Nashville]

Please. If he'd given the student a copy of The Communist Manifesto he would have been given a teaching award.

[HSoft]

Id agree except for the part that the student asked for a copy. However, since a policy was in place about distributing on school grounds they had a reason. If this guy was a regular teacher in the union with tenure this would have only been a slap on the wrist. Here in NJ if you have tenure you are basically a "made-man" and untouchable short of a felony. Pretty sure I just read a story about a teacher throwing a book at a students head had just returned to work after suspension... but thats not grounds for termination?

An Atlantic City High School teacher returns to class today following a 120-day suspension for throwing a book that hit a student in the head.

Piano teacher Christopher Lorge admitted tossing the paperback in February because the student was talking on a phone and wearing earphones.

The district suspended Lorge and started proceedings to terminate him.

But The Press of Atlantic City reports a state Education Department arbitrator found while the teacher displayed a "serious lack of judgment," he showed remorse and had worked 10 years without disciplinary action. The arbitrator declined to fire him.

http://www.nj.com/at...#incart_m-rpt-1

mmm fire a teacher for giving a student a book that he asked for but allow a teacher to keep working for physically harming a student. Yeah, that's not hypocrisy at its finest.

[Charisma Veteran]

It's not not a hard rule to follow, and certainly not one worth risking your job over.

that's the thing though--I certainly can't claim to know what this teacher was thinking, but I think it would barely occur to me. People get so worked up about the Bible they forget: It's a piece of literature. Are people really so scared of one book that they can't let curious people read it? We roll our eyes when "controversial" books are banned from school due to certain content, but suddenly there's a double standard regarding censorship on this one, wat. Reading it isn't suddenly going to make you... I don't know, whatever people think is going to happen by reading it. It's a book. Whatever your religious beliefs are (or aren't), the simple act of reading a Bible/Qur'an/etc isn't going to change anything.

[Nothing Here]

I agree that this was excessive. However, even a sub knows the rules. He should have waited till after school. But that might have been viewed as something else and no telling what could have happened then. He should have been warned and/or suspended. But not fired.

[HawkMan]

While it may be a bit extreme. I'm more shocked that this American school actually has sensible rules about religion in school...

[shakey]

What if the kid asked for a porn magazine because he was curious to the female body? What if it was a gay porn magazine? What if it was the anarchist cookbook? Certain things are not for school. Religion is one of them. There are already buildings and public libraries where one can learn about almost anything.

Just because the kid asked for it, doesn't make it ok. What if the family didn't want the kid exposed to it just yet?

While I'm up for someone learning about whatever they want, there are certain places where certain things just don't belong. Publicly funded schools and religion are one of the things we have agreed will not be put together.

And anyway, the bible or any other religous text is not for kids. They shouldn't be exposed to such things until they can actually understand what it is. But if they are still believing in things like Santa, they really aren't ready for such a book. We don't need kids who are so easily susceptible to ideas to be in contact with such context that are normally in these things.

[Colin McGregor]

What if the kid asked for a porn magazine because he was curious to the female body? What if it was a gay porn magazine? What if it was the anarchist cookbook? Certain things are not for school. Religion is one of them. There are already buildings and public libraries where one can learn about almost anything.

Just because the kid asked for it, doesn't make it ok. What if the family didn't want the kid exposed to it just yet?

While I'm up for someone learning about whatever they want, there are certain places where certain things just don't belong. Publicly funded schools and religion are one of the things we have agreed will not be put together.

And anyway, the bible or any other religous text is not for kids. They shouldn't be exposed to such things until they can actually understand what it is. But if they are still believing in things like Santa, they really aren't ready for such a book. We don't need kids who are so easily susceptible to ideas to be in contact with such context that are normally in these things.

did you just compare the bible to porn or gay porn. Im not a religious person at all but even I find that waaaay far fetched. and I wont even read the rest of the post because of it.

[Noir Angel]

that's the thing though--I certainly can't claim to know what this teacher was thinking, but I think it would barely occur to me. People get so worked up about the Bible they forget: It's a piece of literature. Are people really so scared of one book that they can't let curious people read it? We roll our eyes when "controversial" books are banned from school due to certain content, but suddenly there's a double standard regarding censorship on this one, wat. Reading it isn't suddenly going to make you... I don't know, whatever people think is going to happen by reading it. It's a book. Whatever your religious beliefs are (or aren't), the simple act of reading a Bible/Qur'an/etc isn't going to change anything.

The bible isn't just a piece of literature, it never has been, it's an authoritarian belief structure that is still being used to tell people how they should and shouldn't live. If people actually treated the bible like literature there wouldn't be a problem but they don't, they treat it as if it's real. And American Christians, particularly in the bible belt aren't exactly known for their open tolerance.

[TPreston]

did you just compare the bible to porn or gay porn. Im not a religious person at all but even I find that waaaay far fetched. and I wont even read the rest of the post because of it.

I take it you missed the part about the woman who doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses

[shakey]

did you just compare the bible to porn or gay porn. Im not a religious person at all but even I find that waaaay far fetched. and I wont even read the rest of the post because of it.

you're right, porn is a lot less damaging.

[Cheatyface]

did you just compare the bible to porn or gay porn. Im not a religious person at all but even I find that waaaay far fetched. and I wont even read the rest of the post because of it.

You realize the Bible is full of graphic sexual and violent content right? The comparison is quite apt, imo. If I had been a resident of the town that was collecting violent media to destroy before they called it off, I would have been bringing them holy texts of multiple religions to go with the other violent media they blame for all of society's ills.

[carson2255]

Good. Religion has no place in the public, and should be left to the family and individual to study on. The rules are clear, and the teacher broke them.

Couldnt say it better myself. There is a reason why the seperation of Church and State is in place.

[shakey]

And this might actually help the kid though become an agnostic or athiest if he is already pretty smart... I know in 8th grade, upon being handed a bible outside of school, is what started my freedom. After reading so much of it, out of curiosity, I quickly learned that what was preached in it was not right to my moral code. That started my questioning of it all and eventually lead me to where I am now. The biggest threat of religion are those who actually question what it is, after actually learning what it is they claim to be a part of. Most people of religion have not read much of the books they claim to "believe and follow".

[Richteralan]

The kid asked for one.

Should we fire the teacher too if the kid complained to his/her parents that the teacher does not promote a positive learning experience (refuse to handout a copy of Bible)?

Stupid firing.

What if the kid asked for a porn magazine because he was curious to the female body? What if it was a gay porn magazine? What if it was the anarchist cookbook? Certain things are not for school. Religion is one of them. There are already buildings and public libraries where one can learn about almost anything.

Just because the kid asked for it, doesn't make it ok. What if the family didn't want the kid exposed to it just yet?

While I'm up for someone learning about whatever they want, there are certain places where certain things just don't belong. Publicly funded schools and religion are one of the things we have agreed will not be put together.

And anyway, the bible or any other religous text is not for kids. They shouldn't be exposed to such things until they can actually understand what it is. But if they are still believing in things like Santa, they really aren't ready for such a book. We don't need kids who are so easily susceptible to ideas to be in contact with such context that are normally in these things.

O the what if game. I can play that too! What if it was a gun????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!1546859785246900000+

[shakey]

^ Just because someone asks for something isn't a reason to do it. There are rules and regulations against this.

If you had ever read the bible, you would know it is not material kids should be reading.