118 posts in this topic

The only arguments for the sales are that it's gaining sales. Not nearly quick enough for anyone from nearly every article published on the subject now.

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Well. lets see, WINDOWS 8 did the same thing that vista did, it changed computing in a radical way. The major problem is this, support support support, if it wasn't, why do you think Microsoft got into the hard ware business with the surface tablets, im expecting less and less oems to do windows 2 years from now.

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If I were MS I would heavily invest in modular computing. Come up with a way for everyone who wants a desktop to be able to built their own by plugging parts into a box, and this includes high-end gamers too. Make that easy to do for everyone without the need to fiddle about with heatsinks, properly installing motherboards and whatnot.

Get rid of the manufacturers because they build awful crap, particularly when it comes to pre-built desktops.

I know the article is about tablets mainly but still, OEMs are garbage in general.

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Not taking either side on this one however, it really drives me insane to see the front page of <insert any electronics store here>'s flyer with a ridiculous number of non-touch devices with Windows 8 on them. I don't believe any Windows 8 device should be touchless.

yeah, should've install W7 on that instead.

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I find this very skeptical, The Register has always bashed any and all Microsoft products. I wouldn't be surprised if this article was entirely made up or taken drastically out of context.

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I'll just leave this here: http://www.neowin.ne...ng-market-share

I don't think your rampant biased fanboyism is going to affect sales, so tone it down a bit, its getting boring.

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I don't think your rampant biased fanboyism is going to affect sales, so tone it down a bit, its getting boring.

Heh. So which source do you believe? The Register, or Neowin?

If you say The Register, you loose. You might as well be quoting Weekly World News. Maybe Bat Boy can help you out with your post?

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I don't believe just one source, I'm just bored of seeing the same Microsoft Defense Force members jumping to attention.

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That sounds familiar. Oh, wait...

What I meant was one interface for touch, another for mouse + keyboard. The problem with Windows 8 is that Microsoft tried to make it everything for everyone.

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Just wait till the Surface Pro comes out. I think it will be a hot seller.

There's no need for the majority of people to upgrade their Windows 7 machines. However, Windows 8 tablets are a new kettle of fish.

Windows 8 has so far had low sales simply because people don't need to upgrade.

Perhaps Microsoft should change the system requirements for Office 2013 to require a minimum of Windows 8, and introduce yet a new file format, forcing people and companies to upgrade. Yeah right.

I almost forgot: the increased price will lead to even less sales.

I just don't have the passion to upgrade - my current OS does everything I want it to. What else could I want? (Well, a Surface Pro to replace my laptop would be nice!)

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but, but, but,

It was Microsoft who said, that any computer that run on W7 can run W8 too.

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Either that or you could have two separate interfaces. That's up to Microsoft to decide, but the implementation in Windows 8 is a mess (even though I still prefer it as an operating system to Windows 7).

Two separate interfaces are what we have today - what folks are assuming is that touch-first or touch-support means touch-only or even touch-exclusive; that isn't the case with ANY other OS that supports touch (unless it's a hyperniche OS for a specific device - and yes; I am referring *specifically* to Android and iOS).

What I find laughable is that the ONLY folks making such an assumption are the detractors of Windows 8 - those that actually USE the OS (sans Start8 or Classic Shell) don't make that assumption, and those that run Android tablets or iPads (any generation) certainly don't. I run Windows 8 Pro x64 on a desktop - no touch anywhere - and no Start8 or ClassicShell, either. I do *everything* on it I did with 7 - from casual gaming to serious gaming. (Yes - it can run Crysis *and* Crysis 2 - though not both at once.) You would think that Android and iOS didn't support keyboards or mice if the assumption made by Windows 8's detractors were anything close to the truth.

Do you really WANT Windows to become an elite (read - niche) OS confined to non-touch hardware?

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I almost forgot: the increased price will lead to even less sales.

Increased price never stopped Windows 7.

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ALl Microsoft has to do is put back the start menu in desktop mode and add the group policy to allow disable of metro. Doesn't require a whole redesign. I don't mean getting rid of metro but just putting back the start button in desktop mode. Heck they can even make a $9 add on that does it.

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but, but, but,

It was Microsoft who said, that any computer that run on W7 can run W8 too.

Microsoft is dead-right - which is exactly the problem OEMs are facing. They are now competing with the installed base of hardware, and they are preloading an OS that will, for the most part, run just fine ON that hardware. The issues that folks are having with Windows 8 aren't the issues folks had with Windows Vista - on other words, hardware isn't the problem for users.

The issue for OEMS, on the other hand, is that touch support is still not cheap enough where they can eat the cost, and their hardware margins are under pressure from underneath (Android and iOS - mostly Android) - absent touch, they have been forced to recycle 7-era designs which customers are understandably not going to touch. ("Why would I buy hardware no different from what I have already when I can simply upgrade the OS on what I have?")

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starting to sound like what Microsoft did when Vista was released. Blame the manufacturer not the overwhelming changes you made to your OS

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What I find laughable is that the ONLY folks making such an assumption are the detractors of Windows 8 - those that actually USE the OS (sans Start8 or Classic Shell) don't make that assumption, and those that run Android tablets or iPads (any generation) certainly don't.

How can you say that when you quoted me saying I prefer Windows 8 to Windows 7? Bizarre. :|

Do you really WANT Windows to become an elite (read - niche) OS confined to non-touch hardware?

I want an interface that works well for mouse and keyboard. Touch is great for tablets / laptops but I'll never use touch for a desktop system because I hate fingerprints and can't be doing with constantly cleaning a 30" monitor. I'm more likely to go for something like Kinect or the Leap Motion. It's not "elite" to not want to use touch on a desktop system.

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except MS blaming OEM for W8 underwhelming sales,

not blaming OEM for new PC sales (which some may be pre-installed with w7 instead).

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Relaunch should be interesting. If they don't get a boost from that, then not sure what will.

I find this very skeptical, The Register has always bashed any and all Microsoft products. I wouldn't be surprised if this article was entirely made up or taken drastically out of context.

The Register bashes more than MS. I post The Reg articles from time to time. They tend to be not as serious, a little sarcastic at times, but still get the message a crossed. Its not like The Onion where it is funny and false. And yes, some of the articles can be a little biased but that is anywhere you go these days.

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Just wait till the Surface Pro comes out. I think it will be a hot seller.

There's no need for the majority of people to upgrade their Windows 7 machines. However, Windows 8 tablets are a new kettle of fish.

Windows 8 has so far had low sales simply because people don't need to upgrade.

Perhaps Microsoft should change the system requirements for Office 2013 to require a minimum of Windows 8, and introduce yet a new file format, forcing people and companies to upgrade. Yeah right.

I almost forgot: the increased price will lead to even less sales.

I just don't have the passion to upgrade - my current OS does everything I want it to. What else could I want? (Well, a Surface Pro to replace my laptop would be nice!)

That's the point I made earlier (in fact, I made the point with the Consumer Preview) Windows 8 runs just fine on 7-era (if not Vista-era, and, in some cases, even XP-era) hardware - that makes selling new hardware that much (pardon the unintended pun) harder - and especially in a bad economy with high-single-digit or higher unemployment. You have to provide new features to sell new hardware - and the one new feature is touch support (be it portables or AIOs). However, touch support is not cheap enough to be eaten by OEMs (who are under horrendous margin pressures); the end result is higher pricing or recycling of the same hardware they sold with Windows 7 on it - any consumer with a clue will look at Windows 8 PCs little to NO different from the Windows 7 (if not older) PC they already have, sneer, and keep right on walking. What USED to require a hardware replacement or upgrade now no longer does, for the most part - and this has been the case since basically Windows Vista; worse for OEMs, the economics are indeed dictating such an approach by customers - from home to enterprise.

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any consumer with a clue will look at Windows 8 PCs little to NO different from the Windows 7 (if not older) PC they already have, sneer, and keep right on walking.

i must admit, i also one of those consumers.

I usualy buy one with FreeDos preinstalled (not any version of windows),

so i can install whatever OS on it & customized according to my liking and crapware free too.

As W8 provides no benefit based on how I use my computer, I opt for non W8 OS.

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How can you say that when you quoted me saying I prefer Windows 8 to Windows 7? Bizarre. :|

I want an interface that works well for mouse and keyboard. Touch is great for tablets / laptops but I'll never use touch for a desktop system because I hate fingerprints and can't be doing with constantly cleaning a 30" monitor. I'm more likely to go for something like Kinect or the Leap Motion. It's not "elite" to not want to use touch on a desktop system.

And nowhere have you said that Windows 8 didn't work for non-touch hardware (specifically keyboards and mice). You basically assumed that because it supported touch that it either supported keyboards and mice poorly or not at all. Basically, you assumed either/or - something that no OS that supports touch (even those that made it a priority, such as Android) would do; could it be that Microsoft was so late adding that support (because the hardware it shipped on didn't support it due to the cost of doing so) that drove that incorrect assumption?

And there is the very matter of convertible devices - such as Lenovo's Yoga 13, Dell's new Inspiron 13, or even Ye Mouldie Ouldie ASUS Transformer - they support all the above (touch, keyboard and mice); how do you classify something like that? However, such devices are the exception among OEMs, rather than the rule. Guess what - those exceptions are selling, and selling like hotcakes. Windows 8 *itself* is selling, apparently - it's just that OEM sales (other than the exceptions) are what isn't. Why would a customer buy hardware pretty much exactly like what he or she already has when what he has (hardware wise) works just fine, and he can add the SAME OS (Windows 8) for a whole lot less than new hardware?

Customers need a reason/excuse to buy new hardware in a bad economy more than they would during a good economy - Windows 8's hardware requirements (basically unchanged from Windows 7) are NOT it. This may be the first version of Windows since 9x to be upgrade-driven - not OEM-driven.

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A questionable statement to make to say the least. I do use Windows 8 (with a start replacement and the theme from the RP) but if Windows 8 was an improvement on the desktop front as they claim the lack of tablets would not have mattered. The public are sending a message with the weak sales Windows 8 machines are getting and I hope they're heeded because Windows 8 is a solid OS once you get past the start screen and the butt ugly theme.

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Riiiiight!

And had nothing to do with the fact that not everyone wanted or liked (NOTE: I said not everyone) it?

Or the fact that touch screens (over 22 inch) are still a little on the pricey side?

edit.. I just read my post... Crisp, that was not an attack directed towards you

I have to agree. I can completely understand people that don't like Windows 8 for Desktop use. I'm a bit indifferent, as there are things I REALLY like, and there are things I really don't (The separation between desktop and "Modern" for instance). But with that said, touch screens are still far too expensive for them to be economical, and the hardware has been lacking. I've not been able to find a reasonably priced laptop with a good screen (They all have clearly visible lines, which irritates me). So, I don't think any one company is to blame. Microsoft could have done a much better job with Windows 8 and OEM's could have done a much better job with their offerings.

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What I meant was one interface for touch, another for mouse + keyboard. The problem with Windows 8 is that Microsoft tried to make it everything for everyone.

What part of Metro isn't built for mouse and keyboard? Please explain to me where they don't work in Metro, because they still do on my machine.

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