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#46 Torolol

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 13:15

any consumer with a clue will look at Windows 8 PCs little to NO different from the Windows 7 (if not older) PC they already have, sneer, and keep right on walking.

i must admit, i also one of those consumers.

I usualy buy one with FreeDos preinstalled (not any version of windows),
so i can install whatever OS on it & customized according to my liking and crapware free too.

As W8 provides no benefit based on how I use my computer, I opt for non W8 OS.


#47 PGHammer

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 13:21

How can you say that when you quoted me saying I prefer Windows 8 to Windows 7? Bizarre. :|



I want an interface that works well for mouse and keyboard. Touch is great for tablets / laptops but I'll never use touch for a desktop system because I hate fingerprints and can't be doing with constantly cleaning a 30" monitor. I'm more likely to go for something like Kinect or the Leap Motion. It's not "elite" to not want to use touch on a desktop system.


And nowhere have you said that Windows 8 didn't work for non-touch hardware (specifically keyboards and mice). You basically assumed that because it supported touch that it either supported keyboards and mice poorly or not at all. Basically, you assumed either/or - something that no OS that supports touch (even those that made it a priority, such as Android) would do; could it be that Microsoft was so late adding that support (because the hardware it shipped on didn't support it due to the cost of doing so) that drove that incorrect assumption?

And there is the very matter of convertible devices - such as Lenovo's Yoga 13, Dell's new Inspiron 13, or even Ye Mouldie Ouldie ASUS Transformer - they support all the above (touch, keyboard and mice); how do you classify something like that? However, such devices are the exception among OEMs, rather than the rule. Guess what - those exceptions are selling, and selling like hotcakes. Windows 8 *itself* is selling, apparently - it's just that OEM sales (other than the exceptions) are what isn't. Why would a customer buy hardware pretty much exactly like what he or she already has when what he has (hardware wise) works just fine, and he can add the SAME OS (Windows 8) for a whole lot less than new hardware?

Customers need a reason/excuse to buy new hardware in a bad economy more than they would during a good economy - Windows 8's hardware requirements (basically unchanged from Windows 7) are NOT it. This may be the first version of Windows since 9x to be upgrade-driven - not OEM-driven.

#48 Javik

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 13:22

A questionable statement to make to say the least. I do use Windows 8 (with a start replacement and the theme from the RP) but if Windows 8 was an improvement on the desktop front as they claim the lack of tablets would not have mattered. The public are sending a message with the weak sales Windows 8 machines are getting and I hope they're heeded because Windows 8 is a solid OS once you get past the start screen and the butt ugly theme.

#49 M_Lyons10

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 13:27

Riiiiight!
And had nothing to do with the fact that not everyone wanted or liked (NOTE: I said not everyone) it?
Or the fact that touch screens (over 22 inch) are still a little on the pricey side?

edit.. I just read my post... Crisp, that was not an attack directed towards you


I have to agree. I can completely understand people that don't like Windows 8 for Desktop use. I'm a bit indifferent, as there are things I REALLY like, and there are things I really don't (The separation between desktop and "Modern" for instance). But with that said, touch screens are still far too expensive for them to be economical, and the hardware has been lacking. I've not been able to find a reasonably priced laptop with a good screen (They all have clearly visible lines, which irritates me). So, I don't think any one company is to blame. Microsoft could have done a much better job with Windows 8 and OEM's could have done a much better job with their offerings.

#50 Dot Matrix

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 13:28

What I meant was one interface for touch, another for mouse + keyboard. The problem with Windows 8 is that Microsoft tried to make it everything for everyone.


What part of Metro isn't built for mouse and keyboard? Please explain to me where they don't work in Metro, because they still do on my machine.

#51 SSSikora

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 13:30

I just don't get it! It seems as though 99.9%+ of the animosity leveled towards Windows 8 revolves around Metro and the lack of the Start menu. You are NOT REQUIRED to use anything Metro...with the exception of the Start menu, which can easily be gotten around by pinning applications to the desktop or the taskbar. With one of those two options in use the time you need to spend anywhere other than the desktop shrinks to an infinitesimal fraction of 1% of your total computer usage time. That change aside you just use all of your programs the same way you've always been doing! Where is the problem? Someone please explain it to me. I'm not trying to be an jerk here I honestly just don't understand what the major issue is. When you consider the benefits of Windows 8 - faster startup, better security, the *option* for touch computing, and many more it seems as though the tiny bit you arguably may have to give up is insignificant to the benefits.

#52 PGHammer

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 13:32

i must admit, i also one of those consumers.

I usualy buy one with FreeDos preinstalled (not any version of windows),
so i can install whatever OS on it & customized according to my liking and crapware free too.

As W8 provides no benefit based on how I use my computer, I opt for non W8 OS.


I went the other way - I replaced 7 with 8, but left the hardware unchanged.
However, in our own ways, both of us are outliers; while you buy prebuilt, you buy specifically with a no-cost OS so you can install your own, while I build/upgrade my own PCs - therefore, I'm impacted far less by *crapware* than the average consumer.

I was referring to the same folks that normally WOULD go into a Carphone Warehouse or Tesco or hhgregg or Best Buy and buy a portable or desktop PC. If they have a solidly working PC at home, they can either keep it exactly as it is, OS and all, or upgrade just the OS - neither choice counts as an OEM sale, while the latter WOULD count as a sale of Windows.

Since the beginning, sales of Windows have been primarily OEM-driven - in fact, Windows 3.x was the first version to be sold retail in ANY quantity, while it took Windows XP to become the first NT-based OS to be sold in volume in retail.

Windows 8 seems to be very much bucking that trend - it is apparently very much upgrade-driven in terms of uptake. And because it's bucking the trend, there's a lot of finger-pointing going on.

#53 Javik

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 13:33

I also brought my copy as an upgrade, I simply don't buy OEM machines because I overclock and because I like more control over my hardware.

#54 vetCalum

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 13:35

I wouldn't believe an accusation by The Register when no proof is provided.

'Rumour' tag added to thread, to remove possible misguidance and the possibility of false accusations being made

#55 +zhiVago

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 13:38

This needs to be made clear: neither Microsoft or any of their employees have actually said anything openly and officially on the matter.

Our well-placed source said that bad sales combined with PC makers “ignoring” Microsoft's advice has left Redmond executives fuming.

“Microsoft is very frustrated with major OEMs who didn't build nearly enough touch systems and are now struggling to find parts and ramp up. Microsoft says they provided very specific guidance on what to build,” our insider said.


The Register :x

#56 PGHammer

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 13:50

A questionable statement to make to say the least. I do use Windows 8 (with a start replacement and the theme from the RP) but if Windows 8 was an improvement on the desktop front as they claim the lack of tablets would not have mattered. The public are sending a message with the weak sales Windows 8 machines are getting and I hope they're heeded because Windows 8 is a solid OS once you get past the start screen and the butt ugly theme.


Windows 8 is a solid OS period - the problem (for OEMs) is that the hardware requirements (when it gets down to cases) are not merely similar to Windows 7, but identical to Windows 7.

Windows 8 replaced Windows 7 because I can run more applications.games/etc. - at the same time, and on the same hardware - compared to Windows 7.

However, how old IS Windows 7?

How long had Windows 7 been available when Windows 8 launched?

Basically, how old is the Windows 7 hardware base?

Also - and the question has to be asked - what percentage of the entire Windows 7 hardware base is unsuitable for Windows 8 (broken, too little hard drive, too weak GPU, etc.)?

What a lot of us are forgetting is that it isn't JUST Windows 8 vs. Windows 7, it's the Windows 8 OEM hardware vs. the existing hardware base, of which Windows 7 comprises a large number, but likely not the largest number.

There are doubtless some that are standing pat with Windows 7 (or Vista, or Linux, or even XP) - however, others may have simply grabbed a Windows 8 upgrade. Those aren't OEM sales - if anything, they are LOST OEM sales - however, they ARE sales of Windows 8.

We're getting hard data from the OEMs now - and the usual trend (big OEM sales numbers) is NOT there this time. However, 70 million Windows 8 licenses sold to date (and in less than six months) is an all-time record for ANY version of Windows. Given the lack of OEM sales, there's head-scratching and finger-pointing going on.

#57 TheLegendOfMart

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 13:58

Increased price never stopped Windows 7.

Different situation, Windows 7 was the much needed/wanted upgrade from the Vista fiasco.

Had Windows 8 not launched at such a cheap rate I doubt you'd be seeing the marketshare you see today, and its only going to nosedive in units sold a month once the price goes back up.

No doubt they will try and spin it by forcing Windows 8 on OEMs as units sold.

#58 yowanvista

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 14:01

They should just release a full Desktop version without the crap fullscreen Metro frankenstein garbage instead of forcing it on everyone, that would make things better for customers.

#59 Dot Matrix

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 14:11

The Register :x


(Y)

#60 f0rk_b0mb

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 14:19

I'm a little weary because this is from The Register, but if this is true, then Microsoft really needs to go back to the drawing board. Acceptence of your mistakes is the first step on the long road to recovery. :laugh: