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Scorpus

Why I posted the poll

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Gosh, I miss one day around here and all hell breaks loose. Teach me to miss.

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I think that the reason why the Poll was posted has been shown , isn't it about time to end the bickering?

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I think that the reason why the Poll was posted has been shown , isn't it about time to end the bickering?

i don't know what you're seeing, but from what i've seen in this thread the discussion has remained rather tame so far
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i don't know what you're seeing, but from what i've seen in this thread the discussion has remained rather tame so far

Maybe you ought to go back and read the first few pages. :)

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It's unfortunate that some people felt offended by your article. When I loaded up Neowin today, I saw the article and thought nothing of it. I figured it was just a simple yes or no poll. And I thought it was weird that there were a couple of threads about the article. In this day and age though, I guess you have to be "politically correct". Hate is a strong word but even so, it shouldn't affect people negatively. Ignoring the negative connotation, hate and dislike are very similar words. A lot of people use the word lightly nowadays and I'm guessing that's why it was used.

It's not about political correctness - leading questions are designed to influence the response and to promote an agenda. It's no different to Fox News posting a poll asking "is climate change a scam?" or "do you think Obama is a Muslim?".

The proper question to ask would have been "what is your opinion of Apple?", with the choices being: love them; like them; dislike them; hate them; no opinion. Any editorial should then have been based on the outcome of the poll. Unfortunately, Scorpus admitted that he had an agenda when creating the poll - he wanted the response to show that people hated Apple so that he could write an article about why you shouldn't hate a company. Some of the hostility was obviously unwarranted and over-the-top but the poll showed a complete lack of journalistic integrity and was in violation of the community rules - it reflected very poorly on Neowin, even accepting the tagline "where unprofessional journalism looks better".

I don't think anyone here expects perfection but the poll overstepped the line. And to me Scorpus doesn't seem to understand what he did wrong, as he only apologised for the Twitter remarks - not for the deliberately slanted poll or the pre-determined editorial he was planning to write. This topic is more a defence of his actions than an admission that he was wrong and that concerns me. Just so people see what I mean:

It was not my intention to create a hate war or flame war, and I certainly wasn't looking to bring the site into disrepute, and for that I am sorry.

That's an apology for the backlash, not for the article itself. In fact the entire response seems to be quite condescending.

Anyway, I have nothing against Scorpus, nor do I think Neowin has permanently damaged its reputation - if Scorpus really is sorry then I'm sure most people are willing to accept his apology, as I know that I am. Mistakes happens and everyone has lapses in judgement. And in the grand scheme of things it's really not important. My concern is that staff don't seem to understand what was wrong with the poll and why members are upset. Responses like this don't help:

I shouldn't have to ask for intelligent responses, but your point has been noted

It really wasn't that big of a deal, maybe the term "hate" could have been replaced with "dislike" but other then that anyone who took offense to the story personally either must have a first name of Apple and thought it was about them or needs to take a serious vacation from the internet and do some soul-searching.....

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If you are so worried about not being offended.... STAY OFF THE FREAKING INTERNET.

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Really? People bitch about that poll? I saw the poll, I read it and thought "Hey look it's a poll!". People wanted to boycott Neowin over that? Get a life people!

Am I the only one who likes to read a good debate :)

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i still don't see the big deal

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There should have been a second condition based poll where users who clicked 'Yes' were shown next poll to pick their age range.

If you were offended by the poll, it shows your maturity level.

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Personally I think it is absolutely pathetic the fuss people kick up if a company is even hinted at being less than a god to them, OBSESSION MUCH?

It's not YOUR company, you have nothing to do with that company no matter how much you dream, you only own some extortionately priced iSomething, Geez, you sound like .... actually you don't even sound like someone who owned Apple, you sound like a fool... protecting something that is not even yours as if it was your own love child? Come on... grow up.

Do you hate Apple is a perfectly fine question, UNLESS you know more people will say YES than NO and that would scar you for life and cause you to rock uncontrollably in the corner of your padded iCell

Neowin should be able to post questions aimed at anyone, and not have to remove them on demand of 13 year old fanbois who can't cope, you know, the type who make youtube videos screaming to "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE AAAAHHHHH"

:/ :/

It is sad some members deemed this response necessary. I had no problem with the poll personally, and actually had a bit more of an issue with it being removed.

Had it been a poll saying:

Do you hate Google?

Do you hate Microsoft?

Do you hate NVIDIA?

Really anything else, the backlash wouldn't have been nearly as severe. Heck, we have already had many polls and official discussions on Microsoft after Windows 8, including a poll basically asking if you hate it. But because it was Apple, the backlash came out. It was a completely reasonable poll, with some reasonable and good responses. Apple "fans" are always on the constant defensive and feel the need to lash out or justify the hate towards the product of their choice. Most people truly don't care, but Apple garners the most hate because of their business practices that clearly do harm the industry, so it was a completely valid poll and question to be asked, and discussed. And it was well discussed amongst the commenters.

Regardless, I don't think you should have removed it, or stood down from your position on it. It was completely in-bounds and reasonable and a few members got hurt about it, because that is simply how Apple fans react. It isn't some new behavior, nor unknown, and I refuse to be politically correct on this, because some people just need to grow up. Now, you should have known this was going to happen and maybe had the editorial prepared much sooner to combat the initial response and let it die down.

Other than that, I try to stay out of this stuff, simply because it isn't worth arguing over.

Agreed.

Funnily enough, the only folks who declared they're "leaving" because of that poll are the ones who worship at the fruity altar. Someone mentioned they'll be going over to The Verge.

No wonder, because the Verge is overrun by hardened apple fanboy iToots who'll attack you viciously even if you as much as question _any_ of Apple's actions over there. Even the verge itself is so obscenely pro-Apple, you can tell by the way they've named their forums. "Microsoft Tribe" .. like microsoft fans are some kind of backward uncouth poor pedestrian types.. "Android Army" .. indeed... almost like calling every Android fan part of a raving lunatic army. And here's the kicker... the Apple forum area is called the "Apple Core". Yeah obviously...

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I stand by what I said in the now closed thread: The poll shouldn't have been posted the way it was posted. The way it was worded it was pure flame bait and brought the site as a whole in disrepute. Who in their right mind will take a tech site serious which asks their member if they hate $COMPANY? For the record, had the poll been about Microsoft I would have reacted to it all the same.

Scorpus: I get what you were aiming at. Worded differently, with more poll options and an explanation it would have been a good idea. Simply asking 'Do you hate Apple? Yes/No' however won't do, and you know it. I don't understand the reaction of the site staff either - all of you should know better than to defend what happened. It was bound to cause a major backlash from the community.

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Too bad I miss the drama.

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Lol who cares what tim did, some people need to just get over things. I honestly don't get why people are so affected by this if you are offended or something then have the responsibility to move on, if you want to contribute to the discussion (which was Tim's intention) then do so without it having to be a flame war! I for one saw the poll results as quite interesting however I do agree with the motion that there should have been more options.

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Don't see how anyone can get offended by Apple is a Company like Microsoft ;)

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Looks like I missed quite the event over the weekend. Oh well, probably for the best. While I appreciate that people value the integrity of Neowin and feel that the poll was a mistake, mistakes happen to the best of us. Heck, the BBC news (my personal benchmark for journalism) makes mistakes, and they own up to it when they do and move on. I suggest we treat this incident the same way.

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Certainly an odd poll to post. I think it's a genuine one however it should have been worded better.

I use Windows products all day long at work and as my main PC at home. I do own an iPad and iPhone 4S. I've previously had two 4 iPods and 2 other iPhones. That said I still dislike Apple as a company. Then again, any company tends to be made worse by the actions of it's fan and foe base.

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I thought the poll wasn't the best, i do agree on the sentiments of if you don't like the title don't click the link or don't comment. However the poll i thought was a little negative from the get go "why do you hate apple", really it's only going to invoke a negative feel/attitude when you click into it, perhaps dislike would have been better.

For me Neowin is a technology site, i know they started from a Windows centric start convering Windows XP and the like, however i joined and have stayed a member because they cover so much more. Generally the comments are interesting and back the article up well. Neowin also boasts one of the best/helpful communities with many questions solved.

However i know lately there has been a problem, with members leaving and some polls on trying to clean up the trolling etc.. Generally with neowin there are natural cycles, so i stay as a member as i know it usually gets better.

I would say that it's tough to admit when your wrong, so props for apologising, we're all human and we all make mistakes, we all react to emotions. Lets move on and keep neowin moving on also,

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I guess always prepare your flame retardant suit and readying your flame shield are not the standard operating procedure for most neowinians...

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If you couldn't anticipate the topic deteriorating into a childish hater v.s. fanboy war, then. . .

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Personally, Scorpus, I didn't have a problem with the poll, I could see if for what is was, a poll.

Could it have been handled better, probably, but I don't blame you for that, it might have been better to disable commenting.

A few more options in voting, might have been good..

Unfortunately even when stated, flamebaiting is not allowed, there will always be people who will do so.

(Tho I'm sure someone might throw some freedom of speech claim if you did)

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I think its disgraceful that Scorpus even has to pull the article, then post an apology and his reasons why he did it.

Too many people with knee jerk reactions and faux outrage ruin the internet.

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I think its disgraceful that Scorpus even has to pull the article, then post an apology and his reasons why he did it.

Too many people with knee jerk reactions and faux outrage ruin the internet.

Except it wasn't a 'faux outrage'. Publishing the poll as it was has to have been one of the daftest moves in the history of Neowin.

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I think its disgraceful that Scorpus even has to pull the article, then post an apology and his reasons why he did it.

Too many people with knee jerk reactions and faux outrage ruin the internet.

It ought to be the case that people can calmly and sensibly post their opinions..but... Ya know, that's kinda naive.

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I think its disgraceful that Scorpus even has to pull the article, then post an apology and his reasons why he did it.

Too many people with knee jerk reactions and faux outrage ruin the internet.

While some people overreacted (as indeed have people on the opposite side), many of us expressed our criticism in a mature and reasonable manner. Unfortunately a lot of people have come into this topic with predetermined responses not based on what people have actually posted here. And as already stated, Scorpus didn't apologise for posting the poll - he apologised for the outrage it caused.

This isn't about "knee jerk reactions" or "faux outrage" - there were plenty of legitimate reasons to be opposed to the poll and I think it is unfair to characterise the criticism the way you have. Unfortunately too many people would rather see this ordeal swept-under-the-rug rather than to learn from it. The issue isn't that it was Apple?though picking a hugely popular company obviously didn't help?but that the poll was incendiary, biased, uncharacteristic of Neowin and in violation of the community rules that members have to abide by.

Regardless of people's opinions, this topic was necessary for the healing process. Unless people are allowed to express their concerns these matters tends to become bigger issues down the line and locking critical topics (like the original topic) can create more problems than it solves, even though it is done with good intentions.

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Missed it but your write ups are usually pretty good and i'm sure this would have led to a decent article. Unfortunately to many people out there that defend faceless companies more than they defend their own families. Sad truth that they'll ruin everything for the rest of us.

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