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Bill Gates: Invest in better teaching

gates foundation measures of effective teaching feedback to improve

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#16 Hurmoth

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 23:12

Uhm, no.

It's happening in place where the governments are cutting education. Countries that are still heavily invested in education; Finland, South Korea, New Zealand, Japan and Norway are doing perfect fine. The US has had a anti-intellectual mindset for a few decades now, mainly thanks to the tea party.

Really? What criteria are you using to come to this ridiculous conclusion?

http://www.nationmas...salary-starting

America #5, Finland #17, South Korea not in the top 22, New Zealand #18, Japan not in the top 22, and finally Norway, #8 in starting teacher salaries.

If you're going based on GDP, then you may be correct in %, but not in total dollars, you know, considering Norway's GDP is only $485.8 billion (2011) and America's is $15.09 trillion (2011).

The problem with education in America isn't how much that's spent, it is that there's no focus on actual studies, it is more on memorization. We have horrible standards of learning tests (at least my state did) that didn't really require us to learn the subjects, just memorize them. And there's a major difference between the two, at least I think so.

http://finance.yahoo...-213348441.html

The US spends five times more than any other country on education. So try again on America not investing in education. And slams on a grassroots party that has only been around for four years, really is ignorant.




Now, with regard to Mr. Gates' comments, I agree that we need to invest in better teachers, but one of the problems, at least from my perspective, is that poor teachers are rarely fired because of unions. Unions have no place in the education system, period. A poor teacher should not be shielded by a union, it is unacceptable for this to happen. There needs to be a body, even an international body, like CompTIA for certifications in technology, that teachers get their accreditations from that have to be renewed every few years or they can't teach anymore. This will keep teachers on their toes for knowing what they should be teaching their students. I had way to many teachers who simply did not understand the material they taught, or could not teach in real world scenarios. For example, one of my computer teachers was very book smart, but applying the lessons to the real world was incredibly difficult for him.

Our problem isn't a lack of funding, it is a lack of good teachers and getting rid of the poor ones.

Here's an article regarding this matter from a teacher who opposed teachers unions: http://news.yahoo.co...-152100130.html

Edited by Hurmoth, 02 February 2013 - 23:22.



#17 Tom

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 00:09

Really? What criteria are you using to come to this ridiculous conclusion?

http://www.nationmas...salary-starting

America #5, Finland #17, South Korea not in the top 22, New Zealand #18, Japan not in the top 22, and finally Norway, #8 in starting teacher salaries.

If you're going based on GDP, then you may be correct in %, but not in total dollars, you know, considering Norway's GDP is only $485.8 billion (2011) and America's is $15.09 trillion (2011).

The problem with education in America isn't how much that's spent, it is that there's no focus on actual studies, it is more on memorization. We have horrible standards of learning tests (at least my state did) that didn't really require us to learn the subjects, just memorize them. And there's a major difference between the two, at least I think so.

http://finance.yahoo...-213348441.html

The US spends five times more than any other country on education. So try again on America not investing in education. And slams on a grassroots party that has only been around for four years, really is ignorant.




Now, with regard to Mr. Gates' comments, I agree that we need to invest in better teachers, but one of the problems, at least from my perspective, is that poor teachers are rarely fired because of unions. Unions have no place in the education system, period. A poor teacher should not be shielded by a union, it is unacceptable for this to happen. There needs to be a body, even an international body, like CompTIA for certifications in technology, that teachers get their accreditations from that have to be renewed every few years or they can't teach anymore. This will keep teachers on their toes for knowing what they should be teaching their students. I had way to many teachers who simply did not understand the material they taught, or could not teach in real world scenarios. For example, one of my computer teachers was very book smart, but applying the lessons to the real world was incredibly difficult for him.

Our problem isn't a lack of funding, it is a lack of good teachers and getting rid of the poor ones.

Here's an article regarding this matter from a teacher who opposed teachers unions: http://news.yahoo.co...-152100130.html


Based on actual research.

http://www.guardian....science-reading

Posted Image

#18 Hurmoth

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:19

Based on actual research.

http://www.guardian....science-reading

Posted Image

There's absolutely no context with that graphic. Also, I offered actual research. I never said that other countries didn't excel in education, I said that we spend more on education. We invest 5 times more than any other country in education, something you simply cannot refute.

If you're going to post a graphic like that, put some context with it that backs up your statement: "It's happening in place where the governments are cutting education. Countries that are still heavily invested in education: ..." Either you didn't mean to say that or you are clueless to your own argument.

#19 Salutary7

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:46

Investing in education is hugely important, but even if school districts are capable of putting resources toward positive change, that doesn't mean they always will. I did part time work for a school district years ago, for a which a family member is still a full time employee. The ineptitude of the board/administration led to millions in practically wasted tax dollars. Not saying this is typical across America, but it does seem that the people in charge are often far too disconnected from the needs of students and teachers. It's OK to say we need more effective teachers, but they, even with unions, are still at the mercy of the districts' ineffective decisions. It would be more useful to look at improving systemic problems over incidental ones.

#20 linsook

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 03:28

Now, with regard to Mr. Gates' comments, I agree that we need to invest in better teachers, but one of the problems, at least from my perspective, is that poor teachers are rarely fired because of unions. Unions have no place in the education system, period. A poor teacher should not be shielded by a union, it is unacceptable for this to happen. There needs to be a body, even an international body, like CompTIA for certifications in technology, that teachers get their accreditations from that have to be renewed every few years or they can't teach anymore. This will keep teachers on their toes for knowing what they should be teaching their students. I had way to many teachers who simply did not understand the material they taught, or could not teach in real world scenarios. For example, one of my computer teachers was very book smart, but applying the lessons to the real world was incredibly difficult for him.

Our problem isn't a lack of funding, it is a lack of good teachers and getting rid of the poor ones.


The problem is how do you prove a teacher is a poor one? This is where the wonders of the Gates Foundation's research comes in. Their Measures of Effective Teaching, can finally give a more definite answer on who the best teachers are and provide a more comprehensive feedback to those who lack effectiveness, on how they can improve. They are also trying to discover what makes the best teachers so effective so they can better train the average and poor teachers. Now those who do not improve, you will now have a strong case to get them terminated. Bill recognizes that funding is not the major issue, but rather the level of teaching effectiveness. He has also spoken out against seniority based salary and arbitrary salary grade increases for those who obtain advanced degrees while teaching, saying neither increases the effectiveness of a teacher. However Gates does not openly criticize the unions, but rather works with them. I believe, that he believes, this is the key. Providing the knowledge and tools to nurture the good teachers, train others to become better and give a definitive answer on those who are bad so you can better remove them.

#21 Richteralan

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 02:08

The problem is how do you prove a teacher is a poor one? This is where the wonders of the Gates Foundation's research comes in. Their Measures of Effective Teaching, can finally give a more definite answer on who the best teachers are and provide a more comprehensive feedback to those who lack effectiveness, on how they can improve. They are also trying to discover what makes the best teachers so effective so they can better train the average and poor teachers. Now those who do not improve, you will now have a strong case to get them terminated. Bill recognizes that funding is not the major issue, but rather the level of teaching effectiveness. He has also spoken out against seniority based salary and arbitrary salary grade increases for those who obtain advanced degrees while teaching, saying neither increases the effectiveness of a teacher. However Gates does not openly criticize the unions, but rather works with them. I believe, that he believes, this is the key. Providing the knowledge and tools to nurture the good teachers, train others to become better and give a definitive answer on those who are bad so you can better remove them.

All these are excellent points, but until the USA as a society starting to respect teachers, especially in the K-12, none of these will really be "effective."

#22 Guest_seanseany_*

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 03:52

but until the USA as a society starting to respect teachers,


Hope grammar is top of the agenda !