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While I agree a person can certainly decline to tip, I think a tip is very much expected (even if it shouldnt be). Just recently I was at a diner and saw that 2 people left $1.50 tip on a $29 bill.. before leaving I left $3 on that table just because I couldnt believe someone would leave such a small tip (normally I tip 20% as long as the service is up to par, I think the lowest Ive ever left was 10% because the service was terrible including forgetting to put an order in for someones dinner).

Your actions are at the core of what confuses me really. Why would you tip more because someone else tipped less than you prefer?

Obviously, it is in the best interest of the restaurant owner for everyone to embrace the mandatory tip expectation. In most states that can lower their employees wages to every low levels as long as there is enough in tips to ensure they make at least minimum wage. So, realistically, mandatory tipping enables the restaurant to offload its labor costs onto the patron by a wide margin.

The only thing mandatory tipping encourages is the erosion of quality service. You shouldn't tip "just because" and instead you should tip because you were pleasantly surprised by the level of service you received. I have tipped as low as 0% when I have received crappy service up to over 50% when I was wow'd by the service. That is the way it should be.

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Your actions are at the core of what confuses me really. Why would you tip more because someone else tipped less than you prefer?

Obviously, it is in the best interest of the restaurant owner for everyone to embrace the mandatory tip expectation. In most states that can lower their employees wages to every low levels as long as there is enough in tips to ensure they make at least minimum wage. So, realistically, mandatory tipping enables the restaurant to offload its labor costs onto the patron by a wide margin.

The only thing mandatory tipping encourages is the erosion of quality service. You shouldn't tip "just because" and instead you should tip because you were pleasantly surprised by the level of service you received. I have tipped as low as 0% when I have received crappy service up to over 50% when I was wow'd by the service. That is the way it should be.

and thats the key to this whole thing... the way it should be. the problem is, it isnt. The amount of bs that waiters/waitresses put up with from the consumer is ridiculous. While I have never had the fortune or misfortune of being a server or working at a restaurant Ive seen plenty of times where servers were treated as some low-life pos that was born to serve people. Obviously its going to depend on the location and type of restaurant (high scale places a waiter can make 50-60k) but some person working at a diner isnt living large. so dropping an extra $3 isnt going to lower the quality of service.

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Mandatory tipping has one purpose and only one purpose: For greedy companies to pay the wages of their staff at the cost of the customer. Thankfully in the UK the practice of including tips in people's minimum wage has been made illegal. Tips should not be mandatory, they should be a reward for being provided with good service.

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As usual with this thread each time it comes around, most of you need to stop going out to eat. If you can't manage to be civilized and pay the people making $2 something an hour their tip, then make your own damn food. Complain about food prices if they are too high. But the fact that these people get paid roughly a third of minimum wage should be enough to make most people (unless you're just a piece of ****) give them a tip. Unless their service was completely horrible, they deserve a tip for having run your food and drinks around for you for an hour and getting paid $2 to do it. More or less depending on service, but at least a tip for what they did.

Think of it this way. The restaurant pays them about enough to cover the work they do for the restaurant, not for serving you. You get served, you pay the person who served you. If your total is too high, go to a restaurant you can afford. Also, mandatory tipping is done because of people like this. I know enough people who have worked in restaurants to know for damn sure that without automatically added gratuity, a lot of these big groups wouldn't tip or would tip a very low percentage. I have NEVER seen an automatic gratuity that was an incredibly large amount. 18% seems to be about the max, and without it, most of these people would probably get tipped about 10% on big checks. Most people don't like shelling out $40 as tip for $200 of food. This is something that is very rarely done unless you have a large group or a very large check, so it's not like everywhere is forcing you to tip. Again, if you're too cheap, stay home and make your own food for 10 people. I bet after that you'd be willing to choke up a little tip. How can you sit here and read a thread like this and not see how mandatory tips are needed?

Keep complaining though. Tips will go away when enough people start acting like this and they'll move these people to minimum wage, then you can expect a nice healthy jump in price of your food, but at least you won't have to tip!

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As usual with this thread each time it comes around, most of you need to stop going out to eat. If you can't manage to be civilized and pay the people making $2 something an hour their tip, then make your own damn food. Complain about food prices if they are too high. But the fact that these people get paid roughly a third of minimum wage should be enough to make most people (unless you're just a piece of ****) give them a tip. Unless their service was completely horrible, they deserve a tip for having run your food and drinks around for you for an hour and getting paid $2 to do it. More or less depending on service, but at least a tip for what they did.

Yup, a lot of people have no clue what it takes and what servers have to deal with. Rude customers, messy customers, and demanding customers. People are running around busting their ass serving you. Plus, a lot of time servers have to split the tip with the people in the back preparing the food and washing dishes. If someone doesnt want to tip, then stay home, prepare your own food, and do your own dishes. There is a lot more work going on at a restaurant that people serving food.

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As usual with this thread each time it comes around, most of you need to stop going out to eat. If you can't manage to be civilized and pay the people making $2 something an hour their tip, then make your own damn food. Complain about food prices if they are too high. But the fact that these people get paid roughly a third of minimum wage should be enough to make most people (unless you're just a piece of ****) give them a tip.

Well to be fair, a lot of people in this thread don't live in the US. In every other county its illegal to drop your worker's salary just because they get tipped, so you can see why mandatory tipping doesn't make sense to them. Also in some states in the US, you can't do that either. For example, in Oregon they're paid $9 an hour regardless of tips and the price of food isn't really any higher.

The point most people are making is that it shouldn't be your responsibility that your waiter is paid fairly. It should be their employer's responsibility and they should be paid at the very least minimum wage.

I tip pretty well (almost always 20% unless I thought the service was awful) but I still think that's its pathetic how waitstaff are exploited by employers who are too cheap to give a crap about their employees.

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Well since this waitress was let go for yet another retarded reason simply because the company needed to save face, I really want to say "Good job Applebee's. You've now lost one more customer to this incident"...but I don't really need to. I've only been to an Applebee's one time in my life, and I vowed never to go back. It's a terrible restaurant.

Also, I'm all for having to pay tips on top of food cost because it makes wait staff more attentive and cordial. If they are neither, then they get no tip or pennies..and that hardly ever happens because they need the money. I can only count on one hand the number times in my life that I have received poor service at a restaurant...in the US. The same can definitely not be said about other places where tips are not expected or encouraged.

They work in a service profession, it's their job to always be happy, helpful , attentive and cordial. If they can't they should be replaced by someone who does their job. It's the job of the employer to pay their wages, Tips should be voluntary bonuses by those who wish to provide it and can afford it. not something you expect, but something you should appreciate when you get it.

Yup, a lot of people have no clue what it takes and what servers have to deal with. Rude customers, messy customers, and demanding customers. People are running around busting their ass serving you. Plus, a lot of time servers have to split the tip with the people in the back preparing the food and washing dishes. If someone doesnt want to tip, then stay home, prepare your own food, and do your own dishes. There is a lot more work going on at a restaurant that people serving food.

Same **** every other service profession have to deal with down from store employees and phone support to health staff. Heck certain health staff have it far worse. Try working at a special care place for the old demented people. not only do you have to deal with the usual crap for dealing with old sick people, you have to deal with them not thinking they're kids, repeating the same sentence endlessly, abusing you verbally and physically, smearing **** all over the walls.... you don't see anyone tipping these people.

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What is highlighted is the fact that those restaurants are not being fair to the staff and customers. I guess that is the way it works for now. This particular waiter is all about the tip, whatever comment made by the person refusing to tip is irrelevant, pastor or not.

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Same **** every other service profession have to deal with down from store employees and phone support to health staff. Heck certain health staff have it far worse.

True...but if you have lived in the USA for a month, you know that it s more than common practice to tip a server. And it is far worse being a server than working in a department store helping customers.

Try working at a special care place for the old demented people. not only do you have to deal with the usual crap for dealing with old sick people, you have to deal with them not thinking they're kids, repeating the same sentence endlessly, abusing you verbally and physically, smearing **** all over the walls.... you don't see anyone tipping these people.

These people are trained and thus get paid more. Doesnt take much brains to be a server.

A maid and butler get paid to do similar things for people...same concept. If you dont want to pay the maid/butler, then dont hire them and make your own food and cleanup after yourself.. Dont want to tip, then stay and home and cook your own food and serve yourself.

Restaurants are there for convenience and entertainment...as such, you have to pay for it like anything else.

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True...but if you have lived in the USA for a month, you know that it s more than common practice to tip a server. And it is far worse being a server than working in a department store helping customers.

It is common practice. Sadly I feel the reason is due to my fellow Americans inability to think for more than fractions of a second at a time. As I have said countless times in this thread, mandatory tipping to somehow give charity to some disadvantaged service worker isn't remotely logical.

These people are trained and thus get paid more. Doesnt take much brains to be a server.

A maid and butler get paid to do similar things for people...same concept. If you dont want to pay the maid/butler, then dont hire them and make your own food and cleanup after yourself.. Dont want to tip, then stay and home and cook your own food and serve yourself.

Restaurants are there for convenience and entertainment...as such, you have to pay for it like anything else.

Where do you get this idea? I'd like some hard data. Just like being a waiter in nursing you get a huge sliding scale of expertise and pay from people working in the industry. You have many unskilled laborers that work with the elderly, for instance, who are paid very little and have to put up with a lot, such as cleaning a person who defecates on themselves regularly. The reality is the higher the education and skill level the less likely a nurse is going to have to deal with these problems. Education and dealing with the nasty side of the human condition are very much inversely related.

Even still, can you please stop arguing tips are some kind of lifeline to these desperate service persons who couldn't possibly live unless we tipped them. It is ILLEGAL in the United States of America to pay anyone below minimum wage. The ONLY time (and this isn't even legal in some states) a restaurant can lower the restaurant's wage for that employee is when the employee earns ENOUGH in tips to ensure they are never paid LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE. Waiters in the United States NEVER go home earning less than the minimum wage. Continually saying otherwise is factually incorrect.

See the Department of Labor for a better understanding.

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True...but if you have lived in the USA for a month, you know that it s more than common practice to tip a server. And it is far worse being a server than working in a department store helping customers.

These people are trained and thus get paid more. Doesnt take much brains to be a server.

A maid and butler get paid to do similar things for people...same concept. If you dont want to pay the maid/butler, then dont hire them and make your own food and cleanup after yourself.. Dont want to tip, then stay and home and cook your own food and serve yourself.

Restaurants are there for convenience and entertainment...as such, you have to pay for it like anything else.

You can get an assistant job at a care center with no training as well.

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