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The Woz: We've Fallen Behind in Smartphones

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#226 Exynos

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 14:45

I am typically one to go on forever discussing pros/cons. But honestly you are just one of those guys who treat products like a religion. I hope you are of young age, so that you have an excuse to be the way you are. Good luck to all in this thread.


I'm just saying why powerfull smartphones and open OS'es is there to move the smartphones forward and not being stale like the iOS have been since 2007.


#227 Gnieus

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 14:47

The only reason Apple have fallen behind is because they created something new, and that's it. They didn't build upon it, therefore the new will eventually become old. Apple just needs to freshen up their iOS, give it a lick of new paint and throw in few much needed features, then Apple are all set for the next 5 iPhones.

#228 Exynos

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 14:50

The only reason Apple have fallen behind is because they created something new, and that's it. They didn't build upon it, therefore the new will eventually become old. Apple just needs to freshen up their iOS, give it a lick of new paint and throw in few much needed features, then Apple are all set for the next 5 iPhones.


Yeah, lets see what the next iOS and iPhone will bring.

If Apple gives a damn about iOS this year to, then i'm afraid Apple will step into Symbian's footsteps, witch you know, is dangerous. Because 60% of what Apple is earning is coming from iPhones and iPads. And if they then screws that up, then yeah, the hell will break lose for Apple.

#229 remixedcat

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 14:59

Yeah, lets see what the next iOS and iPhone will bring.

If Apple gives a damn about iOS this year to, then i'm afraid Apple will step into Symbian's footsteps, witch you know, is dangerous. Because 60% of what Apple is earning is coming from iPhones and iPads. And if they then screws that up, then yeah, the hell will break lose for Apple.


This... They also quit making servers, xservre RAID, screwed up final cut, and they don't have any datacenter sales (no servers and not legally allowed to virtualize osx on non apple hardware) so they have no cloud growth explosion sales microsoft enjoys.

#230 TheLegendOfMart

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 15:03

Clearly you don't know what a "Smart" phone is supposed to be able to do today.

If you see this, you will clearly see why CPU-cores, GPU power, RAM and so on matters alot.

Considering that the smartphones and tablets are taking over for computers, then yeah, you get the point.

Clearly you don't have a clue about smartphones. CPU cores DO NOT matter:

Bell also claimed that Intel's internal testing had shown multi-core implementations running slower than single core, however he did not finger any particular chip. "If you take a look a lot of handsets on the market, when you turn on the second core or having the second core there [on die], the [current] leakage is high enough and their power threshold is low enough because of the size of the case that it isn't entirely clear you get much of a benefit to turning the second core on. We ran our own numbers and [in] some of the use cases we've seen, having a second core is actually a detriment, because of the way some of the people have not implemented their thread scheduling."
Posted ImageThe Inquirer (http://s.tt/1dy2a)


Turning on a second, third or even fourth core means more heat, more power consumption, which means having to throttle down the cores, I'd wager a guess that a lot of the time Android runs most apps using just a single core. More cores is just bragging rights for sheep, like the rumoured Galaxy S4/Note III with Samsungs new Octo core setup, its a complete waste of power.




Apple went the smart route and improved their dual core CPU and quad GPU performance instead of just slapping more cores into the device, my Note got ridiculously warm when playing simple games, almost to the point that it was uncomfortable to hold the device.

Yeah, lets see what the next iOS and iPhone will bring.

If Apple gives a damn about iOS this year to, then i'm afraid Apple will step into Symbian's footsteps, witch you know, is dangerous. Because 60% of what Apple is earning is coming from iPhones and iPads. And if they then screws that up, then yeah, the hell will break lose for Apple.

People have been saying this for years, Android is constantly playing catchup.



#231 tsupersonic

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 15:08

Even Android is pretty rubbish at getting any serious work done though. Still need a desktop or laptop (or maybe a surface) to do that!

You have no idea what you're talking about. Both iOS and Android let you do serious work if you need to. For example, I can VPN Into work (using either WiFi or my data connection), SSH into one of my work servers to look at issues. It's extremely helpful when I'm not at home with a full access to a computer (which is more often than not). You could argue Windows phone is an exception - because it's very locked down nature, I can't accomplish many work related tasks in WP, even though MS claims there is a strong business presence. What can you do on an iOS device that you can't on Android? If one is equivalent to the other in features, then by your standards both are useless for being productive, therefore you need a laptop/desktop to do work. It all depends on what you want to accomplish with your device..

The market numbers show Android and iOS have a strong consumer presence. We'll see where the market is headed, but my preference is for Android. I still think Apple has been a stagnant platform for a long time, but they still get a lot of sales, so iOS works for many other people. Just use what you like for now!

#232 Exynos

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 15:41

Clearly you don't have a clue about smartphones. CPU cores DO NOT matter:

Turning on a second, third or even fourth core means more heat, more power consumption, which means having to throttle down the cores, I'd wager a guess that a lot of the time Android runs most apps using just a single core. More cores is just bragging rights for sheep, like the rumoured Galaxy S4/Note III with Samsungs new Octo core setup, its a complete waste of power.

Apple went the smart route and improved their dual core CPU and quad GPU performance instead of just slapping more cores into the device, my Note got ridiculously warm when playing simple games, almost to the point that it was uncomfortable to hold the device.


People have been saying this for years, Android is constantly playing catchup.



This is typical answers from those who don't understand how CPU's are working.

Lets just start by saying that Dual-Core CPU's is good enough if you are playing games. It's like this on normal computers today. However, if you want to do more serious stuffs like running more heavy programs that actually needs CPU-power, you will actually see that a quad-core will pretty much buttrape a dual-core cpu.

When it comes to do real multitasking like the Galaxy Note II can do, then you will see that ALOT of RAM and a quad-core CPU is waaaaay way better than dual-core CPU.

Again, take a look at this.

http://www.youtube.c...2NSLgaII#t=206s

I have made the YouTube video to start from where he start to test the CPU in the Galaxy Note II. And watch then he is testing the Kingsoft Office program to. The proof is all there.

I bet you still will say that CPU-cores doesn't matter after seeing that video over.

To take an example. Do you think a dual-core is better than a quad-core when it comes to rendering things?

Not only that, but a dual quad-core CPU like the Exynos 5 Octa is will use less power than a quad-core CPU that are in the Galaxy Note II today.

Todays Android applications is getting developed to run on 2 or 4 cores if that available.

And to the last thing. The market share to Apple / iOS worldwide is going down at a steady rate, so i wouldn't just say that we have been saying it for years, but i would say it because it's true today that Apple have to play carefully.

EDIT: To the thing about the Galaxy Note getting hot. If you use your Note normally, it should not get any hot. But expecting a monster of a phone like a Galaxy Note or Galaxy Note II to be cold with heavy usage is like expecting a killer Alienware laptop to be cold to.

#233 Hardcore Til I Die

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 17:13

You have no idea what you're talking about. Both iOS and Android let you do serious work if you need to. For example, I can VPN Into work (using either WiFi or my data connection), SSH into one of my work servers to look at issues. It's extremely helpful when I'm not at home with a full access to a computer (which is more often than not). You could argue Windows phone is an exception - because it's very locked down nature, I can't accomplish many work related tasks in WP, even though MS claims there is a strong business presence. What can you do on an iOS device that you can't on Android? If one is equivalent to the other in features, then by your standards both are useless for being productive, therefore you need a laptop/desktop to do work. It all depends on what you want to accomplish with your device..

The market numbers show Android and iOS have a strong consumer presence. We'll see where the market is headed, but my preference is for Android. I still think Apple has been a stagnant platform for a long time, but they still get a lot of sales, so iOS works for many other people. Just use what you like for now!


Everything stated here is my opinion and I don't think either are any good for getting work done. They're "okay" if you're not in reach of a PC, but I'm still a hell of a lot more productive on a PC.

To say I don't know what I'm talking about when I'm stating my opinion is idiotic.

#234 tsupersonic

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 17:26

Everything stated here is my opinion and I don't think either are any good for getting work done. They're "okay" if you're not in reach of a PC, but I'm still a hell of a lot more productive on a PC.

To say I don't know what I'm talking about when I'm stating my opinion is idiotic.

In your previous post, you said Android is useless for being productive. Just because you can't be "productive" on a device, doesn't mean others can't. You made a generalized statement, and made it sound like it applied to everyone who used an Android device, which is NOT true. Bottom line is everyone uses their devices differently, don't generalize what an OS/device can and can't do.No **** a computer is more productive, you can run applications that you just can't run on mobile/tablet devices.

#235 Hardcore Til I Die

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 17:27

In your previous post, you said Android is useless for being productive. Just because you can't be "productive" on a device, doesn't mean others can't. You made a generalized statement, and made it sound like it applied to everyone who used an Android device, which is NOT true. Bottom line is everyone uses their devices differently, don't generalize what an OS/device can and can't do.No **** a computer is more productive, you can run applications that you just can't run on mobile/tablet devices.


Where did I say it was bad for everyone? Obviously everything I post here is what ***i*** think!

#236 TheLegendOfMart

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 17:43

This is typical answers from those who don't understand how CPU's are working.

Lets just start by saying that Dual-Core CPU's is good enough if you are playing games. It's like this on normal computers today. However, if you want to do more serious stuffs like running more heavy programs that actually needs CPU-power, you will actually see that a quad-core will pretty much buttrape a dual-core cpu.

When it comes to do real multitasking like the Galaxy Note II can do, then you will see that ALOT of RAM and a quad-core CPU is waaaaay way better than dual-core CPU.

Again, take a look at this.

http://www.youtube.c...2NSLgaII#t=206s

I have made the YouTube video to start from where he start to test the CPU in the Galaxy Note II. And watch then he is testing the Kingsoft Office program to. The proof is all there.

I bet you still will say that CPU-cores doesn't matter after seeing that video over.

To take an example. Do you think a dual-core is better than a quad-core when it comes to rendering things?

Not only that, but a dual quad-core CPU like the Exynos 5 Octa is will use less power than a quad-core CPU that are in the Galaxy Note II today.

Todays Android applications is getting developed to run on 2 or 4 cores if that available.

And to the last thing. The market share to Apple / iOS worldwide is going down at a steady rate, so i wouldn't just say that we have been saying it for years, but i would say it because it's true today that Apple have to play carefully.

EDIT: To the thing about the Galaxy Note getting hot. If you use your Note normally, it should not get any hot. But expecting a monster of a phone like a Galaxy Note or Galaxy Note II to be cold with heavy usage is like expecting a killer Alienware laptop to be cold to.

Condescend much?

I am WELL aware of how CPUs work.

Why would you want to run 2 videos while playing a flash video and streaming audio in a pop up browser while messing around with other apps at the same time? I don't even do that on my desktop PC.

You don't NEED 4 cores in a phone under normal usage.

Not sure what you are trying to say, you are saying under normal usage it shouldn't get hot then you go on to say that expecting it to be cold is silly?

#237 Exynos

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 18:02

Condescend much?

I am WELL aware of how CPUs work.

Why would you want to run 2 videos while playing a flash video and streaming audio in a pop up browser while messing around with other apps at the same time? I don't even do that on my desktop PC.

You don't NEED 4 cores in a phone under normal usage.

Not sure what you are trying to say, you are saying under normal usage it shouldn't get hot then you go on to say that expecting it to be cold is silly?


Then let me ask why there should be limits on what you can do?

Maybe you don't use your phone for more than SMS'ing and e-mailing and Facebook. But many others like me use the smartphones for way more than that.

Maybe for those who only use the default apps that comes with the phone, then you might not need a 4 core cpu. But have you been on Play Store and seen what other massive programs that are there that needs alot of CPU power?

About the thing you said about running 2 videos at the same time. That's not the point. The point is that you can multitask like freaking hell on the Galaxy Note II without losing performance at all. That's the whole point.

I can use tablet apps on my Galaxy Note. That's why i can run Adobe Photoshop Touch on it. And because of that, i don't want limits on what i can do.

The point i made about the phone being cold is that you can't expect a monster phone like a Galaxy Note to be cold at all when you are using it a bit hard. Because that's like saying you want a monster of an Alienware laptop to not get very hot when you use it heavily. That's also the point.

#238 TheLegendOfMart

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 18:26

Again, condescend much?

You don't know what I use my phone for, you don't even have a quad core phone, the Galaxy Note has dual core. So all this bleating on about how amazing quad core phones are you can do everything you want to do on a dual core CPU.

If playing a simple 2d game is using it "a bit hard", I'd hate to see what happens if I maxed out both cores and gpu.

#239 Exynos

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 18:36

Again, condescend much?

You don't know what I use my phone for, you don't even have a quad core phone, the Galaxy Note has dual core. So all this bleating on about how amazing quad core phones are you can do everything you want to do on a dual core CPU.

If playing a simple 2d game is using it "a bit hard", I'd hate to see what happens if I maxed out both cores and gpu.


Yes i have a Samsung Galaxy Note and i know the fact that the quad-core CPU in the Galaxy Note II runs much better than the dual-core CPU i have in my Galaxy Note.

I have maxed out the CPU and GPU on my Galaxy Note many times, and the temprature isn't that high. The phone is fully holdable without feeling the intense heat your talking about.

I know ALOT of smartphone users whining about this simply because they have never been used to this kind of things or experienced something like this before. That's why they are crying about this just because the phone gets a little warm.

#240 TheLegendOfMart

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 18:50

You need to cool the attitude, sick of you insinuating that I'm some kind of idiot. I've had Android phones ever since the T-Mobile G1 the first Android phone in 2008, had a few iPhones, iPads, etc... the only two phones I've had that got uncomfortably hot was an overclocked HTC Sensation and the stock speed Galaxy Note.