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Son billed $781 after dad dies waiting for ambulance

washington dc ems records ambulance unavailable dc council member

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#31 Kami-

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 16:44

You get charged in the UK too. Don't know what your own taxes pay for or something?

Obviously, he doesn't pay any tax yet...


#32 Richteralan

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 17:06

The service is averaged to around 11 minutes so it was appropriate to figure out the cost for that amount of time. Simple math really. Had I not, the trolls would have been all over it asking for sources.

Sure.........
Next time pay your plumber by the minute, or your electrician, or your lawyer..etc.

#33 ILikeTobacco

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 17:11

Sure.........
Next time pay your plumber by the minute, or your electrician, or your lawyer..etc.

My lawyer gets paid by the day, well sort of. I have what amounts to law insurance that amounts to $1.30 or so a day. I pay monthly regardless of if I need them or not. They don't cover all things, but cover most common things like traffic court, bail, etc. And I don't pay a plumber or electrician because I do that myself. :)

Also, you have been on this site long enough to know that had I said the price without showing the math behind it, trolls would have been all over it. Just skipping the troll fest from that.

#34 LaP

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 17:15

I don't understand why the price asked is being discussed here.

The problem is not really the price even if it appears to be high. The problem is the service was poor yet they asked him to pay the full price. Usually when a company offer such a poor service they offer a substantial rebate or even a full refund.

#35 rippleman

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 17:48

I'm pretty sure the father didn't receive any service though.

On the other hand, Insurance should have covered it.

time is billed as excitably that. "time". The ambulance ride would have cost more had it been regular call. For every service, a separate billing is added, examples are: Tylenol, a defibrillator, cast, or even distance.

Well i had to call 911 for my dad 2 times once December 13th and after a 5 day stay then had to call agian on january 1st when the home health care nurse was there and well my Father passed away on the 8th of january this year but both ambulance rides tho paid by OHP Oregon health plan and Keizer hospital each ride was $1.645.00 and only 23miles on milage it siad on the paper work . i Miss my dad a whole lot

sorry to hear about your dad, know that we all have to experience it at some point, you're not alone.

Looks cheap until you use some common sense. Of course, that would require you to stop trolling.

  • 2 trained ER's, 1 Driver possibly trained in ER: At $40 an hour, which is more than they get paid, with an average time of 11 minutes to respond, without giving any service, $22 dollars total.
  • Phone system: less than 60 cents. That is including the cost of the operator which gets paid close to minimum wage.
  • There are no medical insurance costs because no treatment was given. (He was already dead. Had you read the post and not been trolling, you would have known that.
  • The most expensive ambulance's in the US cost $133,000, and they are in New York. On average, the cost is around $85,000. With a 10 year life span, the per minute cost is about 11 cents. So that means, for a $133,000 ambulance, which these are not, $1.21.
So far we are up to $23.81. No medical equipment was used, gas cost would have been less than a dollar. Maintenance from that trip would be just as small. At worst, the cost of that ambulance is less $30-$40 for an 11 minute response time.

I may have over estimated the cost of the ambulance. You know, seeing how you know how to bring the cost of medical service down so much, you should run for office. If what you say is true, and EVERYONE wants inexpensive health care, they would vote you in office in an instant. Never the less, everything has a cost and this is it. And about your use of the troll word.. i don't think it means what you think it means. By the way, what do you do for work?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

#36 z0phi3l

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 17:53

wow

The only time i called an ambulance (for my mom) it was there in less than 5. The only time i called the police (when i was working as a parking attendant) it was there in less than 5 minutes. I can understand if you call at an hour where there's traffic congestion but in the middle of the night it should be there in less than 10 minutes easily.


Here in my town in CT they have this retarded rule that if you call in for an emergency, NO MATTER what the first responders will be the fire department, the firemen make the determination of an ambulance is necessary, used to be the cops, now firefighters, the whole thing would be simple,. if the unions would get out of the system as was told to me by a pro union retired police officer

#37 ILikeTobacco

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 18:05

I may have over estimated the cost of the ambulance. You know, seeing how you know how to bring the cost of medical service down so much, you should run for office. If what you say is true, and EVERYONE wants inexpensive health care, they would vote you in office in an instant. Never the less, everything has a cost and this is it. And about your use of the troll word.. i don't think it means what you think it means. By the way, what do you do for work?


Seems like you may not know what trolling means. Bold parts apply to your post were you think the bill was perfectly reasonable given that nothing was done. Nobody would post that unless they are trying to get a response like that. $700+ for doing nothing other than failing at their job which is to quickly respond to an emergency?

In Internet slang, a troll (pron.: /ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response

http://en.wikipedia....roll_(Internet)

Also, what office is it that are talking about? No political office sets these prices. Hospitals are privately run businesses. They set their own prices. Usually these prices are this high to pay for the debts that come from having to treat people who refuse to pay for service they receive. Law abiding citizens have to foot the bill.

#38 Shadrack

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 18:26

Wow, I would just LOVE it if I only had to pay my doctor, surgeon, ER, ambulance, pharmacist (etc., etc.) when they actually succeed and cure me or whatever. Truth of the matter is, all these folks are not working for free. Even if they don't cure their patient or an ambulance doesn't arrive on time they still need to be paid. That's life.

Anyway, he can probably get the amount drastically reduced or potentially argue that he is not responsible for his dead father's debt.

I don't think that 30 minutes is an unreasonably long time to wait for an ambulance.

#39 OP Hum

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 18:28

^ True -- and then even higher bills are given to the people that can pay. ;)

#40 rippleman

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 18:43

In Internet slang, a troll (pron.: /ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response http://en.wikipedia...._%28Internet%29


By that definition, I would say your response to my post would be more of trolling. I was posting justification for said charges with the logic behind the billing. You chose to follow up with an emotional response

Also, what office is it that are talking about? No political office sets these prices. Hospitals are privately run businesses. They set their own prices. Usually these prices are this high to pay for the debts that come from having to treat people who refuse to pay for service they receive. Law abiding citizens have to foot the bill.

.

I am not 100% familiar with US law, but the hospitals must meet certain guidelines and requirements before being allowed to operate. There is committees that determine what these rules are. If you ran for a position within that committee, saying you will bring an average ambulance ride down to $100-$200, you would be very popular,get voted in, and would be a national hero. Why are you not trying to do this? You alone could save the entire US population hundreds BILLIONS of dollars. I think you should do it.

#41 Shadrack

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 18:47

Yeah, I'm not sure how next-of-kin medical bills go. A spouse having to pay a medical bill is a no brainier. They assume to be equal partners under the law. But when the bill goes to someone's son or father or cousin or whoever, seems like there isn't much a collection agency can leverage against someone who doesn't pay their fathers bill. Even though the son called the ambulance, he wasn't the patient. Ultimately, if the father would have lived then the father would have received the bill not the son.

Just because the son received the bill does not mean that the son legally has to pay the bill (is all I'm saying). I'm not surprised the the hospital is trying to bill SOMEONE, but I'm not sure they can do anything to you if you refuse to pay your dead relative's bill for them.

#42 ILikeTobacco

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 18:54

By that definition, I would say your response to my post would be more of trolling. I was posting justification for said charges with the logic behind the billing. You followed up with an emotional response

.

I am not 100% familiar with US law, but the hospitals must meet certain guidelines and requirements before being allowed to operate. There is committees that determine what these rules are. If you ran for a position within that committee, saying you will bring an average ambulance ride down to $100-$200, you would be very popular,get voted in, and would be a national hero. Why are you not trying to do this? You alone could save the entire US population BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars. I think you should do it.

Did you miss the entire point of a hospital is a privately ran business? What you are arguing is that because law makers set the minimum standard, they choose the price. If that we there case, law makers could force Ferrari to cut there prices in half to the actual cost of building it based on the minimum requirements. The cost of an ambulance is less than $50 an average 11 response time. The BUSINESS(lets pretend we know that business are made to make money for someone) decided that $700+ was a fair price for a less than $50 service. It is the part you keep ignoring. There is no price cap on profits and since the choice is life or death, people have to accept that price. Seriously, stop trolling. You last comments are just ridiculous. Do it again and I will just report you so people who are trying to have a real conversation about what should be done can discuss it. $700 for a $50 dollar service is a ripoff, period.

Yeah, I'm not sure how next-of-kin medical bills go. A spouse having to pay a medical bill is a no brainier. They assume to be equal partners under the law. But when the bill goes to someone's son or father or cousin or whoever, seems like there isn't much a collection agency can leverage against someone who doesn't pay their fathers bill. Even though the son called the ambulance, he wasn't the patient. Ultimately, if the father would have lived then the father would have received the bill not the son.

Just because the son received the bill does not mean that the son legally has to pay the bill (is all I'm saying). I'm not surprised the the hospital is trying to bill SOMEONE, but I'm not sure they can do anything to you if you refuse to pay your dead relative's bill for them.

That bill can go to the estate though, assuming he had anything. Someone has to be billed for it. No way a hospital could afford to stay open people dying is a very common thing.

#43 ncoday

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 19:01

Not if you can't afford it. Here in the UK we support each other to ensure that everyone is cared for whereas in the US people can only use an ambulance if they can afford it.


That is so loaded with bullcrap its not even funny. You get an ambulance, they don't first ask for a credit card.

#44 fenderMarky

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 19:04

Where's the problem? This is capitalism...

#45 rippleman

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 19:09

Did you miss the entire point of a hospital is a privately ran business? What you are arguing is that because law makers set the minimum standard, they choose the price. If that we there case, law makers could force Ferrari to cut there prices in half to the actual cost of building it based on the minimum requirements. The cost of an ambulance is less than $50 an average 11 response time. The BUSINESS(lets pretend we know that business are made to make money for someone) decided that $700+ was a fair price for a less than $50 service. It is the part you keep ignoring. There is no price cap on profits and since the choice is life or death, people have to accept that price. Seriously, stop trolling. You last comments are just ridiculous. Do it again and I will just report you so people who are trying to have a real conversation about what should be done can discuss it. $700 for a $50 dollar service is a ripoff, period.

That bill can go to the estate though, assuming he had anything. Someone has to be billed for it. No way a hospital could afford to stay open people dying is a very common thing.

I think you may need a cigarette or something. You seem could be having a nic-fit. I invite you to report me, I would be curious to what you would say. As much as everyone would like an ambulance to cost $50, its just not possible no matter how much you scream, kick, cry, or justify. But if you could do it for that, I feel you have a moral obligation to start a hospital and offer your services to them. like I said, you would save America hundreds of billions of dollars. You have my vote.



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