58 posts in this topic

Yes, it's certainly the user's fault if Canonical didn't bother either updating the software adding at least a messagebox saying "Your operating system is not supported" (how much would that be, 3 lines of code? 1 minute of recompiling?) or at least add a proper damn warning on the download page rather than a confusing one regarding a completely unrelated UEFI issue.

Their release schedules are not a valid excuse, they could have certainly done something about that but they didn't. It's their fault. Stop with the double standards. And no, nobody said Microsoft is better: google "Games for Windows Live Windows 8", fun for everybody!

And again I repeat

Ubuntu 12.10 was released BEFORE Windows 8. The only double standards are coming from you and the fact that you feel compelled to blame others for the fact that Microsoft cannot write their bootloaders to interact properly with other operating systems. Your attempt to use a feature in an unsupported way is your fault not theirs. If Ubuntu could have done it during their testing phase, why couldn't Microsoft as well? You can guarantee that Ubuntu will probably work properly with the next release alongside Windows 8, but Microsoft will never fix the way their bootloaders break Linux.

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steam is 32 bit only on linux still. The "steam64" package just installs the 32 bit libs and then installs the 32 bit steam.

That is sad. To think a game download client, for gamers who for the most part have 64-bit OS, is still 32-bit.

Anyway, I will pass on OP's little adventure as I doubt Linux can emulate DX11 and higher without some performance penalty.

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The warning is for Windows 8 logo systems (because they are mandatorily UEFI) and other UEFI systems, if you click the warning indeed it leads you to the UEFI Ubuntu wiki page. The warning also said to use x64 Ubuntu instead so it's 100% UEFI related (x64 is required for UEFI). My motherboard uses a plain old BIOS (not even an UEFI-wrapped BIOS, a real BIOS BIOS) so if it really doesn't work with Windows 8 they should change the text in the download page because it's unrelated to the real issue: if they only write UEFI or Windows 8 Logo systems (computers sold with Win8 preinstalled so still UEFI) if you don't have neither of the two you expect it to work. Anyway in the end Wubi was actually working, it was the Ubuntu installer that kept getting stuck, I managed to get it to shutdown the third time and it looked like it had some issues initializing the ext4 partition.

Funny fact: the Wubi wikipedia page shows Wubi installing on Windows 8. This is clearly a conspiracy!

The install page simply says "Windows 8 or UEFI": http://www.ubuntu.com/download/help/install-ubuntu-with-windows

Point is, Wubi is terrible and always has been. IMO it's only given people a bad taste of running Linux on Windows PCs.

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afiak the 32 bit libs error only happens when you try to install steam on a fresh ubuntu install without running ubuntu's update-manager beforehand.

I had the opposite problem, it didn't work on the fully updated Ubuntu (indeed the support page says it breaks with .04). The Valve instructions for Ubuntu only said to install all the available updates first so I made sure that was the first thing I did after installing the OS (would have been foolish to do otherwise even if the instructions didn't explicitly mention that due to how most linux distros manage their libraries). I tried installing Steam when linux was fully updated, first I tried installing it from the link the Valve Wiki had (the .deb file that unfortunately is 32bit only) then from the store where it didn't work either.

Unfortunately that's how distros work. There was a problem with Fedora 15 or 16 I think where the release .iso version couldn't be put onto a USB stick and was discovered a day or so after release. Even though it was a simple fix (rebuild with a newer version of something), they didn't update the .iso. Instead you had to follow directions to build your own .iso with the updated package, and then it would work.

It might have been much more than 3 lines of code to fix it though, so it might have taken more time (and needed through testing), or just hold off on the fixes until 13.04.

Website note though should have been done.

Indeed it would have been perfectly acceptable if they didn't update the installer and just put a warning that explicitly said that Wubi didn't work on Windows 8. The warning on the page is regarding UEFI hence it says to download x64 Ubuntu, had it not been about UEFI it would have said to simply download standalone Ubuntu so it's actually a confusing mess.

And again I repeat

Ubuntu 12.10 was released BEFORE Windows 8. The only double standards are coming from you and the fact that you feel compelled to blame others for the fact that Microsoft cannot write their bootloaders to interact properly with other operating systems. Your attempt to use a feature in an unsupported way is your fault not theirs. If Ubuntu could have done it during their testing phase, why couldn't Microsoft as well? You can guarantee that Ubuntu will probably work properly with the next release alongside Windows 8, but Microsoft will never fix the way their bootloaders break Linux.

No, it's only you that have double standards and keep mentioning the Windows 8 bootloader that nobody talked about and has nothing to do with this discussion. I used a Windows Ubuntu installer, shouldn't it support... I don't know... WINDOWS? If it doesn't support it and the company didn't bother updating it or putting a proper warning on the application or the page rather than one is that is related to UEFI whose fault is it? Who cares if according to their update schedule they update it every 6 months they could have made an exception and do something about it. It's like if after a car ran over you the driver would just came out with "SORRY, I ONLY BRAKE ON TUESDAYS". What kind of argument is that?

The install page simply says "Windows 8 or UEFI": http://www.ubuntu.co...tu-with-windows

Point is, Wubi is terrible and always has been. IMO it's only given people a bad taste of running Linux on Windows PCs.

The download page has a different banner that says Windows 8 logo PCs and UEFI. The banners in both pages point to the UEFI page. Also is everybody sure that Wubi doesn't work on Windows 8 at all? After turning off hybrid boot it actually worked since Ubuntu booted properly (there are several blog/forum pages around that say that Wubi actually works on Win8 if you disable the hybrid boot), it was the install process afterwards that failed

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So, from what I got from that.. half the issue was because you had 8.. so if you had 7 it wouldn't have mattered.. then you had issues with ubuntu 64bit and steam. So.. instead of looking up how to fix it (which is to simply download the 32bit libraries) you called it quits.

lol at people blaming windows 8 on the failure of installing a Linux distro.

Whats next, blaming windows 8 because your toilet is clogged?

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No, it's only you that have double standards and keep mentioning the Windows 8 bootloader that nobody talked about and has nothing to do with this discussion. I used a Windows Ubuntu installer, shouldn't it support... I don't know... WINDOWS? If it doesn't support it and the company didn't bother updating it or putting a proper warning on the application or the page rather than one is that is related to UEFI whose fault is it? Who cares if according their update schedule is every 6 months they could have made an exception and do something about it. It's like if after a car ran over you the driver would just came out with "SORRY, I ONLY BRAKE ON TUESDAYS". What kind of argument is that?

If you expect them to cater to other people's release schedules you really shouldn't be using a computer. Go and get a clue on how software vendors work.

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If you expect them to cater to other people's release schedules you really shouldn't be using a computer. Go and get a clue on how software vendors work.

Yeah, you should work for Gearbox software. QA not your thing..

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Cool! The new Steam for Linux is out and what do I see? THEY GIVE A FREE TF2 HAT!?!?! I MUST HAS IT!!

So I downloaded Wubi and started installing...

Nice. It completed. Let's have it reboot and expect it to finish the install...

WRONG!

It doesn't boot because it says that Windows is hibernated. Windows 8 hibernates the kernel to speed up startups yet Wubi didn't tell me anything about that. Let's turn the hybrid boot off and expect it to work...

WRONG!

It still doesn't boot with the same reason. Let's go back to windows and turn hibernation off with powercfg -h off.

WRONG!

Again, it doesn't work. Same reason. Let's reboot windows and delete the whole hibernation file and reboot again.

RIGHT!

So the install starts. It starts copying stuff around for a while. Let's wait until it continues... it will certainly end.

WRONG!

It hangs at about 75%. After a while the log starts showing warnings that the copy process has freezed. After about 20 minutes I issue a "sudo reboot" command from console, of course it doesn't work and I have to do an hardware reboot. I try a couple more times then give up and download the whole Ubuntu ISO. Then, let's install the latest 64bit from the ISO like the wiki page suggests for Win 8/UEFI users (no, my machine doesn't have UEFI but since Wubi doesn't work the only alternative is the whole Ubuntu disc hoping it doesn't screw up my bootloader)...

FINALLY!

It finally installed, so let's open Steam website and download the Steam client. Let's run that nice .deb package and expect it to work.

WRONG!

The package available on the website is 32bit only. Apparently I need to use the Ubuntu software center for that. Let's open it, let's register (what's this damn obsession of having to register for free software?) and install Steam 64bit hoping it works.

WRONG!

The Ubuntu software center crashes with no reasons at all. Let's open it again, maybe it was just bad luck!

WRONG!

It crashes again. Let's try using the command line to install it then. It will certainly work.

WRONG!

WROOOOOOOOOOOONG!

WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Package dependencies cannot be resolved
This error could be caused by required additional software packages
which are missing or not installable. Furthermore there could
be a conflict between software packages which are not allowed to be
installed at the same time.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
steam64: Depends: steam (= 1.0.0.27ubuntu1) but it is a virtual package
[/CODE]

Apparently Valve didn't even make sure Steam for Linux worked with the latest 64bit version of Ubuntu.

Now I'm going to curl up in a corner and cry, my TF2 hat collection will never be the same without that hat. Thanks, Gabe and Mark :cry:

abnseQZp.jpg

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And again I repeat

Ubuntu 12.10 was released BEFORE Windows 8.

Oh come on, you're talking about weeks here. And there were numerous preview releases and technical documents available. Considering that Windows is the main competitor to Linux it makes sense for compatibility with it to be one of the main design considerations.

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If you expect them to cater to other people's release schedules you really shouldn't be using a computer. Go and get a clue on how software vendors work.

I didn't say they had to wait for Windows 8 to be released, I said that there were several previews of Windows 8 before Ubuntu came out that they could have used for testing. Wubi is a software for windows, if some other commercial software for Windows had come out days before the Windows 8 release wouldn't you have expected it to work or at least the company to have issued a patch or a warning?

abnseQZp.jpg

Click on the "Learn more >" button, as already said the warning is regarding UEFI (Windows 8 certified "Logo" machines are all UEFI hence it says to use x64 Ubuntu that is the only that can do GPT boot), not Windows 8 itself. Nobody knows if Wubi works or not on Windows 8, people around on forums/blogs say it works after turning off hybrid boot.

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If you expect them to cater to other people's release schedules you really shouldn't be using a computer. Go and get a clue on how software vendors work.

There were two public pre-releases.

Some testing could have been done.

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I didn't say they had to wait for Windows 8 to be released, I said that there were several previews of Windows 8 before Ubuntu came out that they could have used for testing. Wubi is a software for windows, if some other commercial software for Windows had come out days before the Windows 8 release wouldn't you have expected it to work or at least the company to have issued a patch or a warning?

Click on the "Learn more >" button, as already said the warning is regarding UEFI (Windows 8 certified "Logo" machines are all UEFI hence it says to use x64 Ubuntu that is the only that can do GPT boot), not Windows 8 itself. Nobody knows if Wubi works or not on Windows 8, people around on forums/blogs say it works after turning off hybrid boot.

dude, It says right there in that screenshot not to use wubi...

installed directly to its own partition, rather than using the windows installer

You ignored the warning, used wubi on windows 8, and then came here and complained saying they should have told you not to use wubi?

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I dnt see what the fuss is all about. Forget all this fancy crap and go back to basics.

Get 2 HDD, install windows 8 on 1, and Ubuntu on another and just prioritise the harddrives depending on which OS u want to boot from.

HDD are cheap as chips and save u pratting around with the bootloaders and everything.

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Funny, I've had no issues with Windows 8 and dual booting Linux.

A real dual boot or a wubi install ?

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dude, It says right there in that screenshot not to use wubi...

installed directly to its own partition, rather than using the windows installer

You ignored the warning, used wubi on windows 8, and then came here and complained saying they should have told you not to use wubi?

I did not ignore the warning, the warning is regarding the fact that Ubuntu does not work on computers where there are EFI operating systems installed unless you use the x64 version. Go on the page, read the warning well and click on the "Learn More >" button below to see what I'm talking about. I only have Windows 8 installed, I don't have a "Windows 8 logo PC" (those with UEFI secure boot) or an UEFI system at all.

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And this, folks, is why linux will never get beyond the minuscule 2% of all desktops, all the problems coupled with all the fighting make it far worse than any "giant sadness" that windows 8 will ever be.

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Anyway, I will pass on OP's little adventure as I doubt Linux can emulate DX11 and higher without some performance penalty.

Why would it need to emulate anything? I thought most of the offerings for Steam for Linux Games were using OpenGL.

(not saying that I agree it is better for gaming, but does state in the news about OpenGL)

http://www.neowin.net/news/valve-linux-is-more-viable-than-windows-8-for-gaming

I can actually even with Windows remember being able to run games in OpenGL mode and DirectX mode.

Which at one time it was hard to find DX games.

Seems as if a lot of people have forgotten that there is something out there other than DirectX.

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Why would it need to emulate anything? I thought most of the offerings for Steam for Linux Games were using OpenGL.

(not saying that I agree it is better for gaming, but does state in the news about OpenGL)

http://www.neowin.net/news/valve-linux-is-more-viable-than-windows-8-for-gaming

I can actually even with Windows remember being able to run games in OpenGL mode and DirectX mode.

Which at one time it was hard to find DX games.

Seems as if a lot of people have forgotten that there is something out there other than DirectX.

Aren't they going to release other games via wrappers or something?

Offerings ATM are very poor.

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Aren't they going to release other games via wrappers or something?

Offerings ATM are very poor.

valve's linux games are native ports using opengl.

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valve's linux games are native ports using opengl.

I am not talking about Valve games, aside from the "very poor" comment.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

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Aren't they going to release other games via wrappers or something?

Offerings ATM are very poor.

This is the only thing that I have read.

The wrappers as stated above are to grab the necessary files needed to run the game- the libraries each game depends on.

the only thing I read about that was a comment that iD has said that improving Wine would be easier than re-coding older games.

http://steamforlinux.../?q=en/node/165

But as far as I have seen is that some of those older games already had OpenGL .

Though one would really have to wait about 1 year after official release to see if there is a lot games.

That and - the offerings ... are for now on quality... working out the kinks... then adding some new ones.

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To the OP, I had no problems whatsoever installing Ubuntu with WUBI, so I'm sorry you went through that pain. I have not tried to install the Steam 64-bit in Ubuntu, though, since I don't have a whole lot of interest in Steam on Linux (unless at some point the entire Steam library runs on it through WINE or whatever with Steam doing all the work to configure it and me not having to do anything more than launch the game). Thanks for the heads up, though, I may have tried it just out of curiosity.

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I actually just did a fresh install of ubuntu 12.10 on my laptop and tested installing/running steam there. In 12.10 at least everything seems to work perfectly. I opened the software center, installed steam automagically with no issues, and played some tf2. I was surprised how well tf2 played on this laptop's integrated ivybridge graphics too, I was getting 60 fps on a mix of med/low.

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I actually just did a fresh install of ubuntu 12.10 on my laptop and tested installing/running steam there. In 12.10 at least everything seems to work perfectly. I opened the software center, installed steam automagically with no issues, and played some tf2. I was surprised how well tf2 played on this laptop's integrated ivybridge graphics too, I was getting 60 fps on a mix of med/low.

Try it with ATI moble graphics and you will regret wasteing your time. I tried to get everything working on my laptop with a fairly high end ATI moble chip and the video drivers from ATI choaked every time they tried to run, same went for the drivers from the Ubuntu repos. I managed to get TF2 running without them and the game was totaly unplayable but I did manage to get the free Tux addon.

Oh yea and this is a HP business class notebook advertised as supporting Linux and according to AMD/ATI the chipset is supported in linux yet no one has yet been able to make there broken drivers work, you just have to love the idiots at AMD.

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