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Posted

What? I dislike Apple as much as the next guy for their business practices but this case the parents had no ground to ask for a refund.

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[quote name='MightyJordan' timestamp='1362231721' post='595553356']
In my opinion, this one is more disgraceful...

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/82/I_Am_Rich_sale_screen.png[/img]
[/quote]

I don't really see what the problem is?? Clearly states how much it costs and it broke no rules. As always the fault lies with the user.

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Posted

[quote name='alwaysonacoffebreak' timestamp='1362241180' post='595553618']
What? I dislike Apple as much as the next guy for their business practices but this case the parents had no ground to ask for a refund.
[/quote]

It was their business practise that allowed this to happen in the first place, the parents didn't give their kid a credit card and send them to Vegas, they Ok'd one in-game purchase and because of Apples business practise, that allowed continuous purchases without any limit
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Posted

So wait. Let me get this straight. Now Apple is to blame because the kid actually kept on going PLAYING A 9+ GAME which his parents should have NOT let him play in the first place or should have been played with parental over watch. Why should you bother regular people with pop-ups all the time because 2 idiots can't keep their child in place.

Hell..let's now premier the parents with a refund, oh god this world is going to ****.
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Posted

[quote name='alwaysonacoffebreak' timestamp='1362240515' post='595553590']Daylight robbery? Wow. Now immoral = illegal? How about no. Apple shouldn't even have refunded the money, maybe those brainless parents think a bit more next time before handing a credit card info stored device to a kid who hasn't been thought how to behave in these situations.[/quote]

Maybe it [i]should[/i] be illegal. There should be numerous safeguards in place to prevent these sorts of accidental purchases - more than are currently in place - and there should be a period during which such purchases are refundable. In the UK we have Distance Selling Regulations that allow consumers to return physical goods with 14 days and receive a full refund, even if the product has already been opened. Something similar should apply to certain digital purchases too, particularly with credits when the developer can simply revoke access so the consumer doesn't unfairly gain advantage. Obviously it would have to be balanced with common sense, as consumers shouldn't be allowed to buy games and then simply return them after completing them.

A legitimate business model is one where customers knowingly and willingly make the purchase. Targeting games at children who simply don't understand the consequences of their actions is immoral and there should be substantial protections in place to prevent that.

I have no idea why you feel compelled to defend predatory and immoral business practices. Do you simply take enjoyment in the misery of others? Schadenfreude is not an attractive quality.

[quote name='alwaysonacoffebreak' timestamp='1362241808' post='595553640']So wait. Let me get this straight. Now Apple is to blame because the kid actually kept on going PLAYING A 9+ GAME which his parents should have NOT let him play in the first place or should have been played with parental over watch. Why should you bother regular people with pop-ups all the time because 2 idiots can't keep their child in place.[/quote]

What a thoroughly reprehensible opinion you have of your fellow man. You seem to be a very angry person. Why does this couple's mistake irritate you so much more than the predatory business practices employed by mobile developers?

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Posted

[quote name='alwaysonacoffebreak' timestamp='1362241808' post='595553640']
So wait. Let me get this straight. Now Apple is to blame because the kid actually kept on going PLAYING A 9+ GAME which his parents should have NOT let him play in the first place or should have been played with parental over watch. Why should you bother regular people with pop-ups all the time because 2 idiots can't keep their child in place.

Hell..let's now premier the parents with a refund, oh god this world is going to ****.
[/quote]

What is this 9+ you keep saying? 9 Years and above rating ?

And yes it is Apple to blame, its up to the parents if they let their kid play a game with a rating higher than their age, to most people, that rating is a maturity content rating, or a difficulty rating, NOT a rating to say:
"This game will cost you $2000 in 10 minutes"

Keep defending Apple all you like, it's no skin off my nose, at the end of the day, if Apple checked their apps correctly, and had measures in place to confirm each in-game purchase, or at least one to say "Enable ALL in-game purchases, WARNING THIS COULD BANKRUPT YOU" then this wouldn't have happened

[quote name='theyarecomingforyou' timestamp='1362242188' post='595553650']
Maybe it [i]should[/i] be illegal. There should be numerous safeguards in place to prevent these sorts of accidental purchases - more than are currently in place - and there should be a period during which such purchases are refundable. In the UK we have Distance Selling Regulations that allow consumers to return physical goods with 14 days and receive a full refund, even if the product has already been opened. Something similar should apply to certain digital purchases too, particularly with credits when the developer can simply revoke access so the consumer doesn't unfairly gain advantage. Obviously it would have to be balanced with common sense, as consumers shouldn't be allowed to buy games and then simply return them after completing them.

A legitimate business model is one where customers knowingly and willingly make the purchase. [color=#ff0000][b]Targeting games at children who simply don't understand the consequences of their actions is immoral and there should be substantial protections in place to prevent that.[/b][/color]

I have no idea why you feel compelled to defend predatory and immoral business practices. Do you simply take enjoyment in the misery of others? Schadenfreude is not an attractive quality.



What a thoroughly reprehensible opinion you have of your fellow man. You seem to be a very angry person. Why does this couple's mistake irritate you so much more than the predatory business practices employed by mobile developers?
[/quote]

Well said

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Posted

I'm not an angry person. I'm just amazed why people think these parents should get away with it while others do have to actually pay themselves for it. What do you think this is the first time? Other parents just accept that and the child will probably punished for it while this kid probably got a slap on the wrist since they got refunded for their "mistake". I don't care if you think I'm a bad person because I'm criticizing these parents for this "mistake", they should be criticized for it no matter how much you think Apple is at fault here. They practically gave an 5 year old a credit card in a candy shop, what did they expect will happen? You buy him the "candy" and then take the card away.

9+ is an age rating. Already the content of the game is not suitable for a 5 year old. But oh well, I guess I got my own parenting techniques and they got their own.

Also I'm not defending shady nor immoral business practices but either you like it or not it happens around you every day and it won't stop any time soon, not in our lifetime anyway, that's where the parents come in and actually teach you how to avoid things like that. But both of you already made up your mind that the parents are not to blame and I don't really have the time to argue about it anymore.

And theyarecomingforyou, You said it best. Maybe it SHOULD be. But until it isn't there's nothing much we can do besides look more carefully what our children are doing.

I understand both of your point of views and I'm not saying they are wrong, I just got my opinion about it. Like it or not.

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Posted

[quote name='MightyJordan' timestamp='1362241164' post='595553616']
I wouldn't mind seeing a "Freemium" category, but imagine the outrage from developers and publishers; it would never get past the proposal stage.
[/quote]
but the consumers would certainly outweigh the developers and publishers, no?

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Posted

I'd like to know why they're letting a 5 year old play a game called Zombies vs Aliens..unsupervised! I mean..he's FIVE FFS.
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Posted

[quote name='exotoxic' timestamp='1362241344' post='595553622']
I don't really see what the problem is?? Clearly states how much it costs and it broke no rules. As always the fault lies with the user.
[/quote]

Most people expect to get something of value for their money.

This is just a blatant rip-off.

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Posted

[quote name='exotoxic' timestamp='1362241344' post='595553622']
I don't really see what the problem is?? Clearly states how much it costs and it broke no rules. As always the fault lies with the user.
[/quote]

Exactly my point. (Y)

It's like you as a parent buying a Playboy magazine and putting it under your bed. You are at work, your kid comes home and finds it under your bed. Who's fault is that? Playboy's fault or you, the parent?

I say the parent, for being irresponsible.

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Posted

The thing is, these parents straight out gave a 5 year old a credit card while the kid was in a candy shop buying things what he liked.

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Posted

[quote name='exotoxic' timestamp='1362241344' post='595553622']
I don't really see what the problem is?? Clearly states how much it costs and it broke no rules. As always the fault lies with the user.
[/quote]
I don't have a problem with it; I just think an app that costs $999 and does sweet FA is more of a ripoff than a

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Posted

You mean people still don't have in-app purchases disabled on their iOS devices?
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Posted

[quote name='Detection' timestamp='1362239141' post='595553548']
Yea definitely, I know Android has a pin for purchase but I've never paid for any in-game content so not sure if it asks every time or not
[/quote]
yes, android has you confirm every in-app purchase
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Posted

didnt apple just lose a class action lawsuit because of this?

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Posted

[size=4]Question... what does this[font=Segoe UI, Segoe, Helvetica, Arial, FreeSans, sans-serif][color=#282828]

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[quote name='-Razorfold' timestamp='1362237051' post='595553504']
Fair enough but shouldn't iOS ask you for your password everytime you make an in-app purchase? In this case the father entered his password once and then got charged 20 separate times automatically.

Normally shouldn't it be that you enter your password and the game charges you (in this case $105) and then if you need to make another purchase it should ask you again for the password. I highly doubt there's a save password option (I don't use iOS). I wish the article would have posted the game name so you could see the comments / try it.
[/quote]

Apple allows purchases after entering the password in once for a short period, as many people would be very frustrated to have to enter in the password every single time. Really, it comes down to convenience versus security. I do agree that there should be a choice in the matter, but for many like myself, I never really considered this an issue as I don't share my device. In that regard, it's easy to imagine where an oversight like this may exist.

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Posted

[quote name='warwagon' timestamp='1362246288' post='595553780']
You mean people still don't have in-app purchases disabled on their iOS devices?
[/quote]

Apparently not. Seems a bit 2009-ish to me.

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Posted

[quote name='dead.cell' timestamp='1362253228' post='595553932']
Apple allows purchases after entering the password in once for a short period, as many people would be very frustrated to have to enter in the password every single time. Really, it comes down to convenience versus security. I do agree that there should be a choice in the matter, but for many like myself, I never really considered this an issue as I don't share my device. In that regard, it's easy to imagine where an oversight like this may exist.
[/quote]
Well then a solution would be to add a simple option after someone enters their password:

-> Authorize for this purchase only
-> Authorize for all future purchases within 15mins

That way you appeal to both groups of people and you prevent potential lawsuits in cases like this.
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Posted

[quote name='alwaysonacoffebreak' timestamp='1362245196' post='595553750']
The thing is, these parents straight out gave a 5 year old a credit card while the kid was in a candy shop buying things what he liked.
[/quote]

No they authorised a single transaction for a free application and was caught off guard with the "oh you just logged in lets keep this session active for in-app purchases and other sorts of things for a few more minutes" it's not the same as giving the kid a credit card it's more like "hey shopkeep here is my credit card I would like to authorise one purchase of a curly wurly" then the parent walks away and the child drops a whole bunch of other **** on the counter and the shopkeeper complies with the request without checking the id once more

yes the parents could have made more of an effort but no it's not their fault it's not anyone's fault its just something crappy that happened but apple could put better measures in place they know these devices are targeted to children due to their simplicity and they know people need to login to download free applications (which is stupid imo) thats why apple would have been happy to supply a refund
they lose access to the application/extras as well

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Posted

According to this article, you apparently need to enter your password again when you make an in app purchase:

[url="http://www.macrumors.com/2013/03/01/apple-offers-refund-after-british-boy-spends-2500-on-in-app-purchases-in-15-minutes/"]http://www.macrumors.com/2013/03/01/apple-offers-refund-after-british-boy-spends-2500-on-in-app-purchases-in-15-minutes/[/url]

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Posted

There is always the option to remove your credit card from your Apple account and only use iTunes gift cards.

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[quote name='Scorbing' timestamp='1362245064' post='595553748']Exactly my point. (Y)

It's like you as a parent buying a Playboy magazine and putting it under your bed. You are at work, your kid comes home and finds it under your bed. Who's fault is that? Playboy's fault or you, the parent?

I say the parent, for being irresponsible.[/quote]

What part of allowing a kid to play a free app is irresponsible? They clearly thought it was a harmless game and I would have never thought for a moment that it would be possible to rack up such a ridiculous bill in such a short period of time. The technology exists to recognise irregular purchases - it is widely used in the banking industry - so there really isn't any excuse for Apple to not have similar safeguards. What reasonable person would spend that much money on a "free" game? A tiny minority, at best. App developers

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[quote name='theyarecomingforyou' timestamp='1362351583' post='595555848']
What part of allowing a kid to play a free app is irresponsible? [u][b]They clearly thought it was a harmless game [/b][/u]and I would have never thought for a moment that it would be possible to rack up such a ridiculous bill in such a short period of time. The technology exists to recognise irregular purchases - it is widely used in the banking industry - so there really isn't any excuse for Apple to not have similar safeguards. What reasonable person would spend that much money on a "free" game? A tiny minority, at best. App developers
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