310 posts in this topic

I do not remember having hot corners in Windows 7 with dual screens......

Try using hot corners with 3 monitors.. it's nearly impossible to target them.

The point I have been trying to make is that, unlike most previous versions of Windows, Windows 8 may be more CAPABLE of using newer hardware than Windows 7, but it no more required it any more than Vista did, in all reality.

That's always going to the be the case.. but the point here is that Microsoft made a terrible USER EXPERIENCE where none of the hardware support and improvements under the hood matter because using Windows has become completely counter productive.

And yes, I use keyboard shortcuts as much as I can and it still sucks.

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And here I was thinking he was writing your opinion in his post, thanks for the clarification.

No problem.

Touch computing as we know today mainly took off with iPhone. I think one of the reason was using fingers as input instead of earlier focus on stylus.

Whether it's touch in it's current form, or touch 10 years ago...it's still touch. No one is arguing that these things have matured and or that they have evolved into much more functional versions. That does not make them "new".

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Are you telling me you have such disdain for Metro that you would rather run VMware on Win 7, than Hyper-V in Windows 8? I'd have to say pay the $5 and get Start8.

If you have VMware in your Datacenter, I can understand. We are a VMware DC but I have set the direction to move to a Hyper-V and Win Datacenter 2k12 environment. That plan began 2 years ago and with the recent improvements (to Hyper-V), will come to fruition over the next 18 months.

While I think management which led to the Windows 8, let's call it chaos, at the moment, leaves a lot to be desired and managers to be fired, the Server Group are my heroes. Freeing us from the exorbitant VMware and Citrix annual support tax. Second only to Oracle that the SQL Group saved us from years ago.

Hyper-V is vastly better than VMWare's junk. HV is even easier to use. No idea why anyone would pay for VMware when Hyper-v is free in Windows 8.

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Try using hot corners with 3 monitors.. it's nearly impossible to target them.

That's always going to the be the case.. but the point here is that Microsoft made a terrible USER EXPERIENCE where none of the hardware support and improvements under the hood matter because using Windows has become completely counter productive.

And yes, I use keyboard shortcuts as much as I can and it still sucks.

Boz - user experiences are unique to individual users.

Making general comments that are unique to individuals into facts is prevarication at best, and an outright lie at worst.

If such a thing WERE true, than nobody would EVER change to a different OS - let alone one with a different UI.

Yes - some folks find the migration to the different UI something they are unwilling to do. I don't have a problem with that part of it - what I have the problem with is trying to blow smoke up my rear end as to why.

I have far less at stake than Microsoft as a company does - and I pointed out in earlier postings that even they have far less than is assumed. Why is it necessary to blow smoke up my butt on this issue?

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Try using hot corners with 3 monitors.. it's nearly impossible to target them.

I have 4 monitors. Apparently I'm superman because I never have a problem hitting the hot corners.

Or just mildly competent and not looking for excuses to complain.

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Hyper-V is vastly better than VMWare's junk. HV is even easier to use. No idea why anyone would pay for VMware when Hyper-v is free in Windows 8.

I pointed out reasons in terms of hardware support why VMware (and even VirtualBox, for that matter) still matter, even on Windows 8.

I'm not denying that Hyper-V is tons easier to use - in fact, in the Microsoft Server subforum, I pointed that out. (It is, in fact, THE driver when it comes to my next hardware upgrade - more so than even gaming.)

However, most Windows desktop users could care less about desktop virtualization at all - let alone what desktop virtualization software makes the best sense.

It may be important to individual users - but to the vast majority of Windows users (even Windows 7 or Windows 8 users) it's an outlier.

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Try using hot corners with 3 monitors.. it's nearly impossible to target them.

I'm with you on that. I just went with 2 for a week and gave it up. If I truly needed it, I'd deal with it, but it required way too much attention throughout the day for the benefit to me. I do think the did the best you can expect given the hot corners. If I have to go back, I'll disable them with Start8, but I actually like the Charm bar. I think this will be addressed in an update, at least I hope so.

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Here's a good Neowin clip on how 8 is improving large disk support, http://www.neowin.ne...ard-disk-drives

For UASP, you do need a current chipset with UASP support and a USB device with a controller that supports it. It's new, but shortly all chipsets and externals will support it. I know Intels H77 and Z77 fully support it as do Lacie's current Porsche line of externals and Theremaltake's current external enclosures. You won't get much with an older slow drive though in any case. Fast HDs with lots of cache SSDs, and Flash drives (Mushkin's Ventura Pro's support it as do Lacie's rugged thumb drive.)

I forgot to mention File History (Time Machine, lol), but I had to use it yesterday and it worked well. And FAST. Of course my File history drive is a 2TB SATA restoring 350G to a USB UASP external. Sustained 97MBs. Not too shabby considering both are pretty old HDs. I do miss the system imaging but never really like MS' implementation so I'm good. Gonna give Macrium a try.

Even if you only have one device, if you ever have to rebuild, it's nice to have most of your basic settings there already, to my surprise this included wifi settings across devices. That was cool. I love the PIN. I use a long complex password, it's nice after to put it in once, to go to a 4 digit pin. Very nice. If you're going to install an FP reader, obviously this is of not value to you but that's not very common in the enterprise, let alone your average Joe.

I hear what you're saying about UEFI and Linux et. al., I, at this time have no interest in that and neither do most average users. It's a Windows and Mac world. FWIW, I would not consider anyone wanting to dual boot Linux a basic user.

Enthusiasts, who drive desktop computing IMO, will appreciate the improved TRIM support, I'm not sure SMB 3 is relevant to a home network really. But it is important in the corporate environment as is Windows To Go. Many, many consumers take screenshots of apps/games and now this is native. I'm all for fewer third-party apps for core and basic functionality (the opposite of where MS is going, lol).

As for storage spaces, I have not actually used them but I imagine you lose whatever data I on that drive but it should keep working. I'm guessing there will be an Action Center notification. I believe you can choose a config with redundancy.

Your summation that there really is no reason to upgrade is valid. But it is clearly a worth upgrade. At $14.99 or $39.99 with Free Media Center it was a no-brainer despite how irritating Metro is/was. Now though, not so much. I don't think I could justify a downgrade other than the fact that you do have to pay another $5 for Start8 but there are free alternatives.

People buying new PCs (not a lot) will take what they get. But the millions of installed base that aren't or won't upgrade is huge. Getting them on board would be a big win for MS. But right now they're punch drunk from the ass whippin' iPad and Android are giving them. They're stumblin' all over the place. Not finishing or polishing things off ... smh

Good points, great post. At $40 or below it was something to consider, maybe not jump on but definitely consider. at $200 I would rather buy a whole new system for the extra $150. The linux thing is true, basic/moderate users likely don't use it or don't care, but the more and more features MS cram into their OS the more and more of a requirement linux is to do basic things for free, like format 3TB/48bit drives as one partition easily, or put any size drive in FAT32 format, or quickly rename/retag MP3s, or edit photos for free with a powerful editor, fix windows file screwups when they happen from a OS running on DVD/USB, list goes on.. and the many more things linux easily enables for free that MS slowly are taking away.

The thing about storage spaces is if you are spanning all those drives, it would have to either keep parity/rebuild info on every drive, taking up space similar to a RAID5, or if one dies all data is lost. It likely reads/writes to ALL drives at once, which increases speed by splitting the file up like a torrent (how raid works anyway).. Example coping a 1 TB file over three 250GB drives and a 500GB drive (an example, not reality), if you should one of those drives, its gone. If you span them together and one isn't in the pool, will it even boot?

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I have 4 monitors. Apparently I'm superman because I never have a problem hitting the hot corners.

Or just mildly competent and not looking for excuses to complain.

I have 2 monitors, and I've never had issues hitting them. The mouse should catch, if you hit it right.

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Good points, great post. At $40.

The thing about storage spaces is if you are spanning all those drives, it would have to either keep parity/rebuild info on every drive, taking up space similar to a RAID5, or if one dies all data is lost. It likely reads/writes to ALL drives at once, which increases speed by splitting the file up like a torrent (how raid works anyway).. Example coping a 1 TB file over three 250GB drives and a 500GB drive (an example, not reality), if you should one of those drives, its gone. If you span them together and one isn't in the pool, will it even boot?

Everyone should have upgraded at $40 IMO. Now you are right, if you're not an enthusiast or buying a new system it's tough to swallow given how good Windows 7 is. When there are app designed for Windows 8 that create demand that might change. Once reason I bought 3 with my new 7 licenses is because like it or not, that's a steal for a Pro license any way you slice it. If it's broke, eventually it would get fixed.

You describe Raid 0 which you can still create using Disk Manager in software as you always could in NT which basically became the desktop OS with 2000. I can't remember if you can do it in XP or not. Storage pools do support hot spares which basic software raid in Windows previously did not. From what I've read, I don't believe it stripes but it saves recovery information with the data in case of failure/rebuild. Because the spaces can have different redundancy policies, I don't think it's striping.

I have 2 monitors, and I've never had issues hitting them. The mouse should catch, if you hit it right.

I believe it's actually a bug. When it stops working or becomes problematic, it was fine after reboot or kill explorer task. Could be OS, could be drivers, but it is an issue for some. When it did work, I didn't like how easy it was to activate them all over the place which MS knew would happen which is why the bar doesn't actually become hot until you move the mouse in the vicinity of the actual icons.

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The $200 price mark, is defiantly a main factor in the standstill. Just glad I grabbed multiple copies while they were still at ?20.

It is far from being the "main" factor for the total failure of windows 8 on the desktop, not even close, it does play a role but a minor one.

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The $200 price mark, is defiantly a main factor in the standstill. Just glad I grabbed multiple copies while they were still at ?20.

Looks like they've reacted by making it cheaper again.

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My guess would be that they're probably trying to drive demand back up again in response to the plateau in uptake that ending the cheap upgrade caused.

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Looks like they've reacted by making it cheaper again.

Very wise move. It's good to see MS making more practical common sense decisions ;) I would recommend any fence sitters get it while it's cheap.

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Regardless of price, at this point, most sales will come from consumers buying new PCs, rather than separate at retail.

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If I hadn't activated the key I paid ?14.99 for i'd be asking for a refund about now. Being cheap doesn't always make something good in my book.

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if you hit it right.

exaaaaactly.. which is nearly impossible. I shouldn't be hunting for a hot corner for 15 secs to hit it just "right".

That's terrible and counter productive user experience.

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Try using hot corners with 3 monitors.. it's nearly impossible to target them.

I'm giving this a go again as the mobo in the Digital Storm Bolt allows the iGPU and discrete graphics to be active so the second monitor is actually on the i7's integrated GPU.

I must say it's nice to have Modern UI apps always open in the second monitor, too bad you can't keep the Start Page open in the second monitor while working in the other. Then I could get into Live tiles, the few that mean anything.

The main screen app bar is definitely buggy/squirrely, sometimes it work, sometimes it absolutely doesn't. On occasion both bars don't function on the second Monitor. I'm gong to play with this a while and then go back to 1. See how Lucid's Virtu which uses the iGPU with discrete card to accelerate graphics works. Sounds like compatibility waiting to happen but it's fun.

post-59115-0-00292400-1362436802.png

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exaaaaactly.. which is nearly impossible. I shouldn't be hunting for a hot corner for 15 secs to hit it just "right".

That's terrible and counter productive user experience.

Nearly impossible? How is it I have no issues controlling my mouse to hit these corners? If it's "impossible" as you say, then I take it, it's "impossible" for you to hit anything else in the UI with the mouse? Because if you can hit a button or a control, than you can hit the corners. I call BS.

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Regardless of price, at this point, most sales will come from consumers buying new PCs, rather than separate at retail.

That's always the case with all versions of Windows on the Desktop, enterprise licensing agreements notwithstanding.

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Regardless of price, at this point, most sales will come from consumers buying new PCs, rather than separate at retail.

You mean part of that "60 million", right? /s

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You mean part of that "60 million", right? /s

I think winning over resistant enthusiasts is more important right now. There's a reason MS is pressing forward fast. Surface sales are negligible, that's a reality. That 60 mil is still well below MS projections and that includes Tablet sales which of course, are nowhere near where MS would like them.

All the Windows 9/Blue chatter coming from MS so early in 8's lifecycle makes me happy. They may not fix everything, but they're fixing something.

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40 dollar deal is the only reason I upgraded, otherwise I would have stayed on win7.

This^

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I have 2 monitors, and I've never had issues hitting them. The mouse should catch, if you hit it right.

Is he "holding it wrong"? /s

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Nearly impossible? How is it I have no issues controlling my mouse to hit these corners? If it's "impossible" as you say, then I take it, it's "impossible" for you to hit anything else in the UI with the mouse? Because if you can hit a button or a control, than you can hit the corners. I call BS.

Um, not it is not. You have a visual cue for buttons and UI elements. You know where to click. I also have issues activating the hot corners every once and a while, even on one monitor.

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