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Posted

I'm not Anti-windows 8 at all. I'll be getting a Surface Pro when it drops down in price. But when it comes to desktop windows 8, yeah it's not really all that cracked up to be, or else people wouldn't be complaining the lack of start menu etc.

The Start Menu is a great search and browsing tool. I myself use Start8. But it's hardly enough to deter for the desktop environment as a computing environment. The improvements over Windows 7 are vast.

Obviously because I do use Start8, I realize how important of a search tool and browsing tool that is. You don't use the Start Menu that much, but when you do, Modern UI Search is unacceptable to me. If that was truly unified and you could drag to select a whole range of results and perform in-place context menu options, I would not mind it myself.

I do think the Start Menu should/could be a feature advanced users could add. I have not problem with it being removed by default. I actually have no problem with the Desktop Environment being an advanced add-on feature. Of course, top notch Modern UI core apps would be required for that, which doesn't appear to be happening even after the fact.

Again, someone at MS incorrectly believes desktop computing is diminishing or losing significance. They are just ... wrong. That fallacy is why things seem so messed up to so many. Not only are they wrong, but their consumer tablet initiative which they seem to have sacrificed much of the hardcore desktop computing users for, is a total failure (my opinion, and I own a Surface.) The Surface Pro is NOT a consumer tablet at $800 and is instead a laptop/ultrabook alternative. It's a full blown PC.

Other than my own workplace, I have not seen a single person with a Surface RT but have seen tons of new iPads and Android tablets which are multiplying like roaches.

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Posted

Though I consider myself pro-Microsoft...I am actually happy to see such a poor adoption of Win8.

May I ask why? I am not in general. I like and prefer the Windows platform. Switched to Mac 3 times, sold them all on eBay and went back. Primarily because the productivity of the UI wasn't there for me (something MS is dealing a crushing blow to removing Start Menu and in-place context sensitive menus. Of course for now those are still in the Desktop Environment). But I am happy that users are not accepting the Windows 8 in it's current state. Modern UI Search, very weak core media apps. No compelling apps for Windows 8 that showcase it and won't run on Windows 7.

Microsoft may have also truly bitten off more than it can chew. They have so much to do, fix, create, they can't possibly have enough developers.

You know on a Windows Phone 8 when you play music, you have like/don't like heart on each song that you can sort by or sync by in Zune? Well Zune doesn't work with Windows Phone 8. That whole feature of WP8 is useless. What is that?

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Posted

They should just add a set of GPOs to completely disable metro and restore the Start Menu. Adoption would accelerate significantly.

Personally, if they continue to try and force everyone to metro with no user-customization options, I'll switch to Mac. And no, a 3rd party start menu is not acceptable.

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Posted

Microsoft forked themselves with this one. I"m sure Windows 9 will correct a bunch of the issues people are having. *ducks*

what issues? seriously, what are these major issues that people are having...This is nothing more than what they went through with XP. People got comfortable and don't understand why they should switch up to win 8 from 7.

The majority of regular everyday folks sees 7 working, and says there is no reason to do 8 as my PC/laptop from last year still runs fine.As soon as it starts slowing down, or becomes 'old' in their eyes, they will move up, whether to 8 or 9 or 10 if it's out.

Couple that with the fact that such a media smear campaign happened against win8, and you have a near perfect storm.

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Posted

Personally, if they continue to try and force everyone to metro with no user-customization options, I'll switch to Mac.

Been considering it myself.... been spec'ing some out for quotes...

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Posted

This is nothing more than what they went through with XP.

I think this is far different. People love Windows 7. Unlike XP, there were many many clear benefits to upgrading. So even though some people (primarily hardcore tech people) didn't like the bright colors, they upgraded anyway, and look how long XP lasted. This time around, there is much more significant irritation than aesthetics, and there's no clear apparent reason to upgrade. Much, much different.

People got comfortable and don't understand why they should switch up to win 8 from 7.

Or you can say, People are happy and productive with few or any complaints and don't understand why they should switch up to Win 8 from 7. And Microsoft hasn't provided a good reason for them too either, as far as they can see.

And I agree, that is the primary problem.

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Posted

Microsoft isn't stupid, they know all that's missing or not fully functioning. They're just determined to try to force people to accept what they want to do like it or not, fully functioning or not

And this is the main reason why windows 8 has failed.

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Posted

Only type of app that is always run full screen regardless of the UI, is games.

Pricisely why popular Metro Apps is GAMES.

Microsoft isn't stupid, they know all that's missing or not fully functioning.

They're just determined to try to force people to accept what they want to do like it or not, fully functioning or not. You might be able to bully competitors, but you can't bully consumers.

Actually i believe it was because Microsoft (and other big companies) was allowed to force the consumers to waives their rights of using class-action suit in EULA,

which by then I see drastic degradation of Microsoft 'products' quality & Microsoft attitude toward consumers.

Sure consumers may sue Microsoft,

but only small case which will never requires Microsoft to change their policies

nor Microsoft need to pay huge sums like how it would be, if there was class action suit.

So, yes bullying the consumers happens, because the (U.S) LAWS allows it.

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Posted

Been considering it myself.... been spec'ing some out for quotes...

Let's forget about Windows 8. I feel your pain. But if you're a happy and productive Windows 7 user, my money says you will not stay on a Mac for long. You'll be back.

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Posted

what issues? seriously, what are these major issues that people are having...This is nothing more than what they went through with XP. People got comfortable and don't understand why they should switch up to win 8 from 7. The majority of regular everyday folks sees 7 working, and says there is no reason to do 8 as my PC/laptop from last year still runs fine.As soon as it starts slowing down, or becomes 'old' in their eyes, they will move up, whether to 8 or 9 or 10 if it's out.Couple that with the fact that such a media smear campaign happened against win8, and you have a near perfect storm.

Would you rather have a wall of crowded, disorganized tiles (not metro, but desktop apps) or a nice tidy menu organized alphabetically? I could give 2 ****s about metro apps or that crowded "All Apps" view. Also, why can't I turn it off? Someone who was a windows 3.11 fan boy could use progman up to Windows XP SP2. Why isn't there a a way to just get the classic UI back? Instead, I'm stuck with a kludgie crappy tablet ui. People like you always focus on people like me disliking the start screen, but in reality, that's only 1/3 of the problem.

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Posted

The Start Menu is a great search and browsing tool. I myself use Start8. But it's hardly enough to deter for the desktop environment as a computing environment. The improvements over Windows 7 are vast.

Obviously because I do use Start8, I realize how important of a search tool and browsing tool that is. You don't use the Start Menu that much, but when you do, Modern UI Search is unacceptable to me. If that was truly unified and you could drag to select a whole range of results and perform in-place context menu options, I would not mind it myself.

I do think the Start Menu should/could be a feature advanced users could add. I have not problem with it being removed by default. I actually have no problem with the Desktop Environment being an advanced add-on feature. Of course, top notch Modern UI core apps would be required for that, which doesn't appear to be happening even after the fact.

Again, someone at MS incorrectly believes desktop computing is diminishing or losing significance. They are just ... wrong. That fallacy is why things seem so messed up to so many. Not only are they wrong, but their consumer tablet initiative which they seem to have sacrificed much of the hardcore desktop computing users for, is a total failure (my opinion, and I own a Surface.) The Surface Pro is NOT a consumer tablet at $800 and is instead a laptop/ultrabook alternative. It's a full blown PC.

Other than my own workplace, I have not seen a single person with a Surface RT but have seen tons of new iPads and Android tablets which are multiplying like roaches.

And that is *entirely* due to price (Android tablets) and the overwhelming number of apps (iPad).

Android is flourishing entirely based on price. Never mind that the low-end tablets are, in fact, mostly forks from the defined standard - they are cheaper than Surface, and that is, in fact, draw a-plenty. (Basically, it's the same impact the Gang of Nine had on the IBM-compatible market.)

However, if you need a large app variety, Android isn't it, and even Windows+RT isn't it - iPad is.

Start8 offers a large number of features the original Start Menu itself lacked - which is part of its draw. The other reason Start8 is popular is, in fact, that it uses the familiar UI - there's nothing new to learn. (It's improved old, which will outdraw new almost every time - and especially now, when improved old is itself a major draw.)

I have nothing against Start8, other similar utilities, and certainly not against Stardock - I use quite a few of their utilities myself - just not that one. (I have Decor8 and DeskScapes 8 installed right now.) However, Start8 is what it is - a Start menu with improvements the original version lacked - it's NOT identical. If you want something utterly identical to the old SM, then you want Classic Shell - not Start8. Comparing Start8 to the Windows 7 Start menu is not fair to either.

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Posted

I guess this don't include that of new PC sales with pre-installed win 8?

Windows 8 is fast. thats where it stops. Recommended update maybe, but necessary absolutely not. Especially at $200. Hell, at $40 it wasn't even selling that well.

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Posted

Pricisely why popular Metro Apps is GAMES.

Actually i believe it was because Microsoft (and other big companies) was allowed to force the consumers to waives their rights of using class-action suit in EULA,

which by then I see drastic degradation of Microsoft 'products' quality & Microsoft attitude toward consumers.

Sure consumers may sue Microsoft,

but only small case which will never requires Microsoft to change their policies

nor Microsoft need to pay huge sums like how it would be, if there was class action suit.

So, yes bullying the consumers happens, because the (U.S) LAWS allows it.

Don't forget the lack of any meaningful Desktop Competition. If MS has serious competition to it's desktop dominance, it would not have allowed this current situation to occur.

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Posted

I installed Win 8 an a partition on my main gaming computer. Dual Booting it and Win 7.

I checked Win 8 out, and while it was at first a bit unfamiliar, I got used to it pretty fast, and really did not think it was all that bad on my initial run through.

My main reason for not fully switching over is it was not enough to make me do so. My Windows 7 comp is set up exactly how I want it to be, and to start over or what does not seem to be any real good reason, and in fact to have to get used to new features that do not seem all that enticing to me personally, just does not appeal to me.

So maybe when I have a few days to spare I will make the full jump to Win 8, but for now I am sticking to Win 7, as I have it set up exactly as I want it to be. It seems a lot of websites and people just do not take into account the fact it is a PITA to upgrade fully to a new OS. I would imagine quite a few people are in my predicament. Just no real need to upgrade because of the starting over factor it brings along with doing so.

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Posted

Whats funny about this article is the source, Net Applications.

When NA says Internet Explorer is above Chrome people on this forum claim that's BS and paid for by MS. When NA says Windows 8 adoption is slow, then they're absolutely correct.

Either way, NA's sample size is something like 30000. That's far far too small of a sample for well anything, even browsers. In comparison, stat counter's sample size is 3 million.

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Posted

I guess this don't include that of new PC sales with pre-installed win 8?

Windows 8 is fast. thats where it stops. Recommended update maybe, but necessary absolutely not. Especially at $200. Hell, at $40 it wasn't even selling that well.

In defense of the great engineers that did the Desktop Environment, Win 8 DE is so much more than that. Really. Those dudes have to be hating the UI and core app folks that are turning so many away from all that.

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Posted

However, if you need a large app variety, Android isn't it, and even Windows+RT isn't it - iPad is.

Variety? http://www.insidemob...vs-google-play/

That was back in sept and they were 25k fewer apps. Quantity don't mean quality though. Having both OS I have no problem with 90% of programs. iOS has a few gems as well as android. on the playing field they are about equal. specifically speaking the iPad has pad-enabled apps which android is very slowly migrating to for their large tablets, this is true. iPad apps do perform slightly better than iPhone apps. disregarding how they look when they run theres nothing one does the other can't. Talking productivity apps here, gaming is a different story completely.

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Posted

I think this is far different. People love Windows 7. Unlike XP, there were many many clear benefits to upgrading. So even though some people (primarily hardcore tech people) didn't like the bright colors, they upgraded anyway, and look how long XP lasted. This time around, there is much more significant irritation than aesthetics, and there's no clear apparent reason to upgrade. Much, much different.

Or you can say, People are happy and productive with few or any complaints and don't understand why they should switch up to Win 8 from 7. And Microsoft hasn't provided a good reason for them too either, as far as they can see.

And I agree, that is the primary problem.

New hardware (or at least newer hardware) has to be justifiable in terms of purchasing - such justification is a great deal harder during poor economic conditions, which are still the case, on either corporate/enterprise or home-user levels.

The perception (still - and despite many articles that disprove that hypothesis) is that to use Windows 8, you need new(er) hardware.

Throwing in that misperception are all those low-priced Android tablets (in many cases, sub-$200USD). Spending $200USD is a lot easier to explain away than anything above that - even if it turns out to be a waste - and the perceived costs of upgrading to Windows 8 are higher than that, even not counting the cost of software. (Notice that I said perceived costs - as opposed to real-world costs, which differ with the hardware target in question.)

Improved old (or even staying pat) is proving itself to be a favorite tactic today - and especially in terms of computing. (It's true OUT of computing as well - look at new-vehicle sales - where are they today?) If an OS upgrade is thought to require new hardware, that merely adds to the perceived cost - and folks are looking for ANY excuse to NOT spend money.

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Posted

I love it. Just a bunch of FUD. More desperation from these bozos online. They keep getting louder and louder,and spreading more garbage every day. comparing % points instead of actual users? did none of these numbskulls ever stop and think a percentage 3-4 years ago does not equal a % today? And these website statistics are neither accurate(go check out discrepancies from other stat houses), nor do they represent actual sales. Windows XP had rampant piracy. Vista and 7 too were too easy to pirate. Windows 8,not so much. Windows 8 also has apps therefore people using apps like Netflix,hulu,etc.. wont show up as valid hits on these stats. And windows has NEVER sold more in the months after the first few months at launch.

I find it funny that a bunch of people online feel their pride hurt because windows has something simple(metro) and has color,and they consider themselves some computer tough guys, all overclocking and using command scripts and all. Too bad Microsoft is not in the business of keeping your computer cred up to par.

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Posted

if steve ballmer wasnt such a good friend to gates, his head would have rollen already ...

... And that's why they rolled Steven Sinofsky's head instead.

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Posted

And that is *entirely* due to price (Android tablets) and the overwhelming number of apps (iPad). Android is flourishing entirely based on price. Never mind that the low-end tablets are, in fact, mostly forks from the defined standard - they are cheaper than Surface, and that is, in fact, draw a-plenty. (Basically, it's the same impact the Gang of Nine had on the IBM-compatible market.)

However, if you need a large app variety, Android isn't it, and even Windows+RT isn't it - iPad is.

Start8 offers a large number of features the original Start Menu itself lacked - which is part of its draw.

Agreed on price. That's why I consider the tablet space lost to MS. They had one shot with RT and they blew it. Furthermore, on Tegra 3, those cheap Androids run circles around RT. Including and especially 3D gaming.

As for apps, I'm actually leaving WP8 for HTC's latest the ONE. It looks real nice, supports all my bank apps, and Bluetooth 4.0 Heart Rate Monitors, all my Fitness Apps I ran on my iPad, and the apt-x codec over BT 4.0 for CD quality sound over Bluetooth. I hate Google, but MS totally jacked things up IMO and they still don't support Bluetooth 4.0 fully in Windows Phone, only one of my 3 banks has an app, my fitness app and no other quality fitness apps are on it.

I'm sticking with the Surface RT for a while longer but MS is not headed towards fixing any of my issues so I'm sure I'll go Android there too. There's no incentive to settle for less especially with MS' attitude of force feeding "their" agenda.

I do have one issue with Start8, the service is 32-bit. Now it uses 0% CPU and 400k RAM, but I still don't like it.

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Posted

Whats funny about this article is the source, Net Applications.

When NA says Internet Explorer is above Chrome people on this forum claim that's BS and paid for by MS. When NA says Windows 8 adoption is slow, then they're absolutely correct.

Either way, NA's sample size is something like 30000. That's far far too small of a sample for well anything, even browsers. In comparison, stat counter's sample size is 3 million.

You mean kind of like when Forbes posted an article about windows 8 being a failure and all the MS zealots attacked it claiming that Forbes is not credible.

But when Forbes made an article praising an RT device the same zealots praised Forbes and didn't question the validity or credibility of Forbes at all.

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Posted

New hardware (or at least newer hardware) has to be justifiable in terms of purchasing - such justification is a great deal harder during poor economic conditions, which are still the case, on either corporate/enterprise or home-user levels.

The perception (still - and despite many articles that disprove that hypothesis) is that to use Windows 8, you need new(er) hardware.

Throwing in that misperception are all those low-priced Android tablets (in many cases, sub-$200USD). Spending $200USD is a lot easier to explain away than anything above that - even if it turns out to be a waste - and the perceived costs of upgrading to Windows 8 are higher than that, even not counting the cost of software. (Notice that I said perceived costs - as opposed to real-world costs, which differ with the hardware target in question.)

Improved old (or even staying pat) is proving itself to be a favorite tactic today - and especially in terms of computing. (It's true OUT of computing as well - look at new-vehicle sales - where are they today?) If an OS upgrade is thought to require new hardware, that merely adds to the perceived cost - and folks are looking for ANY excuse to NOT spend money.

Though our PC refresh cycle slowed. We've recovered. But still not deploy 8. We are deploying VDI though. In the Enterprise I think people know better and most PCs are capable, it's the training costs. To technical people it's minor. But the cost of end users relearning the UI and becoming productive, very expensive. Obviously, if a GPO could eliminate the Start Page, that would solve most of it.

There are many good reasons to go with Windows 8 in the enterprise and we will, through VDI.

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Posted

You mean kind of like when Forbes posted an article about windows 8 being a failure and all the MS zealots attacked it claiming that Forbes is not credible.

But when Forbes made an article praising an RT device the same zealots praised Forbes and didn't question the validity or credibility of Forbes at all.

Yup sounds just like Neowin :rofl:

Forbes overall is a pretty terrible technology news source, I wouldn't trust any articles / reviews from them ever. Regardless of my feelings towards a particular device.

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Posted

I love it. Just a bunch of FUD. More desperation from these bozos online. They keep getting louder and louder,and spreading more garbage every day. comparing % points instead of actual users? did none of these numbskulls ever stop and think a percentage 3-4 years ago does not equal a % today? And these website statistics are neither accurate(go check out discrepancies from other stat houses), nor do they represent actual sales. Windows XP had rampant piracy. Vista and 7 too were too easy to pirate. Windows 8,not so much. Windows 8 also has apps therefore people using apps like Netflix,hulu,etc.. wont show up as valid hits on these stats. And windows has NEVER sold more in the months after the first few months at launch.

I find it funny that a bunch of people online feel their pride hurt because windows has something simple(metro) and has color,and they consider themselves some computer tough guys, all overclocking and using command scripts and all. Too bad Microsoft is not in the business of keeping your computer cred up to par.

And I also find it funny when a zealots pride gets hurt because their favorite software product has bombed and they go online to try and discredit anyone who dares to point it out.

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