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[quote name='xWhiplash' timestamp='1363143596' post='595574148']
Sigh.....Windows Phone =/= PC. XBox =/= PC.

Why didn't the Start Menu default to being open then?
[/quote]

Oh, but they do. The idea is the same. You're supposed to pin your apps, and go from there. Start is the new desktop.

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[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1363142886' post='595574140']
I dunno, why is it the first thing I see on my Windows Phone? Why is it the first thing I see on my tablet? Why is it the first thing I see on my Xbox?

It's a dashboard to your PC. It's meant as a startup UX. That should have been clear to you way back in the beta.
[/quote]

Why are we trying to dumb down the desktop to the level of a smart phone/tablet or game console?
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[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1363107438' post='595572948']
There is windowed search in Windows 8. Have you forgotten about the Search Bar in Explorer?

Also, don't judge Windows 8 until you've used it via touch, then you'll see why things are the way they are.
[/quote]

Are you saying that desktop users really have no right to judge windows 8?

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Posted

[quote name='nub' timestamp='1363146590' post='595574184']

Why are we trying to dumb down the desktop to the level of a smart phone/tablet or game console?
[/quote]

How is Windows 8 dumbed down? It's still a highly advanced OS.

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[quote name='xWhiplash' timestamp='1363141194' post='595574116']
Um, run a program where I have a shortcut on the desktop. I do not jump in the start menu right away.....so why not give us a damn choice if we want to avoid the Start Screen right away. Clicking Desktop 3-6 times a day is very very very annoying. I do NOT click anything else, or ever visit the Start Screen after that.....so why is it forced on me? Was the Start Menu automatically open with every Windows version? No. Why does the start screen HAVE to be open initially?
[/quote]
I will ask you again. Where did I say that you should leave your PC running 24x7?

If you are going to justify your dislike for start screen by talking about clicking a shortcut on your desktop then that is just classic "who moved my cheese". Move the shortcut to your taskbar or better move it to start menu. I personally don't use desktop to keep shortcuts or any other files since XP came out in 2001 so I can't feel sorry for you. sorry. ;)
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Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1363107438' post='595572948']
There is windowed search in Windows 8. Have you forgotten about the Search Bar in Explorer?

Also, don't judge Windows 8 until you've used it via touch, then you'll see why things are the way they are.
[/quote]

My PC isn't touch. Hence Windows 8 is **** for me. I'll judge it all I like, since I don't use it on a touch device.
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Posted

[quote name='Tyler R.' timestamp='1363093114' post='595572470']
No Ads!
[/quote]
while i totaly agree with you,
Microsoft were totaly disagree, as Microsoft tries to push its own: [url="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/advertising-windows-sdk(v=msads.10).aspx"]Microsoft [b]ADVERTISING[/b] S.D.K. for windows 8[/url].
Which by definition, will makes any apps that using it into an AdWare.

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Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1363148898' post='595574222']
How is Windows 8 dumbed down? It's still a highly advanced OS.
[/quote]

It's completely dumbed down to a retarded level. Which is why more novice people actually like it but most advanced users can't stand it.
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Posted

[quote name='warwagon' timestamp='1363150864' post='595574254']
It's completely dumbed down to a retarded level. Which is why more novice people actually like it but most advanced users can't stand it.
[/quote]

Yes, yes, we know. [url="http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1141000-installed-windows-8-to-friends-and-family-everyone-loves-it/page__st__15__p__595570786#entry595570786"]You need every little control ever made on your screen at the same time, so you can geek out on double clicking all the things[/url].

However, there is no reason that needs to be that way. Users want content, they want their work. They don't need a cluster**** of controls, menus, and other gizmos clogging up their screens. It's like having a clean house. My dinner isn't out of the fridge until I want it, not out occupying space and in my way, while I'm doing other chores. My socks aren't strewn about the top of my dresser, they're neatly tucked away in the drawer, ready for me to grab a pair when I need them. Same with menus and other gizmos, they don't need to be there until I need them.
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Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1363166407' post='595574446']Users want content, they want their work. They don't need a cluster**** of controls, menus, and other gizmos clogging up their screens. It's like having a clean house.
[/quote]
And yet the Start Screen reminds me more of Times Square than a clean house... ;)

[attachment=329580:h1.png] [attachment=329584:start.png]


By the way, if anyone wants to partly realize what I wrote about in the first post, on the Desktop at least, you can use e.g. Autohotkey to create two shortcuts, one for the Search Charm (Win-Q), the other for the Settings Charm (Win-I), and add the former to the start menu as "Show Metro Search" , and the latter into a toolbar on the task bar, sort of how I described it in the first post. Plus, the only entry I chose to display on the start menu in addition to the search box and the frequently used times is "Recent items" on the right. Everything else can be handled by the pinned list for the File Explorer and the Settings Charm (including the power options which I wish Start8 would let you remove from the start menu). Works pretty well for me anyway.

[attachment=329582:w8.png]
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Posted

Wonderful ideas that keep the Start Screen and make it useful (Y)
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Posted

Windows 8 for desktops - loads straight to the desktop
Windows 8 for touch devices - loads straight to metro

Everybody is happy.

OP - Excellent suggestions. If they were actually implemented, i'd actually upgrade from 7 :)

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Posted

With my Logitech Gaming Software I can easily map buttons on my mouse (G700) to Windows 8 features. You can do the same with thier keyboards as well.

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Posted

[quote name='Neobond' timestamp='1363174445' post='595574572']
Wonderful ideas that keep the Start Screen and make it useful (Y)
[/quote]

+100

@ OP
Ignore the MS bots who think windows 8 is perfect
will love to see the look on their faces when poor sales and consumer backlash will force MS to apply some of the changes you have mentioned...

Im not delusional enough to think MS will abandon metro completely but the changes and
improvements you listed make a lot of sense for desktop users and address most of the frustrating aspects of windows 8.
And its totally in the realm of possibility that Microsoft will implement these kind of features to make it more desktop friendly.
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Posted

Thanks guys!

[quote name='remixedcat' timestamp='1363174780' post='595574580']
With my Logitech Gaming Software I can easily map buttons on my mouse (G700) to Windows 8 features. You can do the same with thier keyboards as well.
[/quote]
That's certainly useful. :)
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Posted

[quote name='Anarkii' timestamp='1363174734' post='595574578']
Windows 8 for desktops - loads straight to the desktop
Windows 8 for touch devices - loads straight to metro

Everybody is happy.

OP - Excellent suggestions. If they were actually implemented, i'd actually upgrade from 7 :)
[/quote]

Agreed. What does it matter to you guys (the people that says it is pointless....DO NOT USE IT THEN) if they provide an option to boot directly to desktop? That is much better instead of having me to click Desktop 3-6 times a day, and that is the ONLY thing I EVER use the Start Screen for. It is pointless for it to be in my face all the time.

[quote name='BajiRav' timestamp='1363149124' post='595574228']
I will ask you again. Where did I say that you should leave your PC running 24x7?

If you are going to justify your dislike for start screen by talking about clicking a shortcut on your desktop then that is just classic "who moved my cheese". Move the shortcut to your taskbar or better move it to start menu. I personally don't use desktop to keep shortcuts or any other files since XP came out in 2001 so I can't feel sorry for you. sorry. ;)
[/quote]

Hmm....I thought when you use a computer, you can use it however you want to. Or am I just mistaken in that? I have some shortcuts for games on my desktop, other things are pinned to my taskbar.

Hmm lets see here....Windows 7 - Only a desktop interface, therefore I did not get an additional click required in my daily routine (sometimes 3-6 times a day jumping from OS X to Windows). Windows 8. The ONLY.....ONLY thing I use the Start Screen for is to click the damn Desktop tile.

So again, what does this matter to you if they provide an option? You have no use for it? Fine. But I do. I would rather keep chatting with a friend (just an example) while I click a desktop icon (or icon in the task bar) than have my 30" monitor completely filled up. Therefore, I do not use the Start Screen at all.

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Posted

[quote name='Anarkii' timestamp='1363174734' post='595574578']
Windows 8 for desktops - loads straight to the desktop
Windows 8 for touch devices - loads straight to metro

Everybody is happy.

OP - Excellent suggestions. If they were actually implemented, i'd actually upgrade from 7 :)
[/quote]

That would break everything Microsoft is doing. They're converging their user experiences into one, not separating them out anymore. Even on traditional desktops, the Metro Start Screen is meant as a dashboard to your PC. Pin your go to desktop app to it, and be done. Once you click it, you're on the desktop, with your app open, ready to go. All it takes is one click. That's one less than on a traditional desktop.

Plus, if I was a betting man, I'd say you'll see more Metro integration in Windows in future releases, not less.

[quote name='CSharp.' timestamp='1363173629' post='595574556']
And yet the Start Screen reminds me more of Times Square than a clean house... ;)
[/quote]

How does a nice clean workspace do that?

[attachment=329588:Screenshot (3445).png]

If anything the way you guys use the desktop reminds me of Times Square. I don't need, nor do I want a ton of crap occupying my screens while I'm working. I want to focus on my task at hand, and not be distracted.

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Posted

I :heart: the ignore feature.

I like the concept idea of having the start screen incorporated into the desktop, rather than having an overlaying, annoying start screen. After all, all you do is fill your desktop with quick launch icons, why not just replace them with start icons?

There then should be the option to resize the tiles like on WP8, smaller for people who don't use touch.

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Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1363178091' post='595574676']
That would break everything Microsoft is doing. They're converging their user experiences into one, not separating them out anymore. Even on traditional desktops, the Metro Start Screen is meant as a dashboard to your PC. Pin your go to desktop app to it, and be done. Once you click it, you're on the desktop, with your app open, ready to go. All it takes is one click. That's one less than on a traditional desktop.

Plus, if I was a betting man, I'd say you'll see more Metro integration in Windows in future releases, not less.



How does a nice clean workspace do that?

[attachment=329588:Screenshot (3445).png]

If anything the way you guys use the desktop reminds me of Times Square. I don't need, nor do I want a ton of crap occupying my screens while I'm working. I want to focus on my task at hand, and not be distracted.
[/quote]

You do know there are some jobs where you need to have multiple programs and windows open and visible at all times don't you? What do you suggest people do in those cases? "Tough luck"....yeah that will go very well.

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[quote name='xWhiplash' timestamp='1363178488' post='595574692']
You do know there are some jobs where you need to have multiple programs and windows open and visible at all times don't you? What do you suggest people do in those cases? "Tough luck"....yeah that will go very well.
[/quote]

I can think of very few tasks where you "need" more than two or three windows open at any given time. My work rarely requires more than two. The rest can sit off the side of the screen, and wait for me to come back to them.

Now, unless you're some hotshot, "power user" still stuck in the past, pretending that a zillion and one things cluttered all over the screen, is "cool", and somehow makes you think you're better than everyone else, Metro will work for you, and does not prohibit any kind of productivity. It also adds functionality you'll never get on the desktop. It's just a different way of displaying and using what we've already learned from using Windows these past 20 years.
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Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1363181451' post='595574790']
I can think of very few tasks where you "need" more than two or three windows open at any given time. My work rarely requires more than two.
[/quote]

Paint by numbers doesn't require many windows ;)

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[quote name='Detection' timestamp='1363181654' post='595574794']
Paint by numbers doesn't require many windows ;)
[/quote]

Nor does research, nor does coding, nor does graphic design, and nor does note taking. ;)

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[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1363166407' post='595574446']
Yes, yes, we know. [url="http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1141000-installed-windows-8-to-friends-and-family-everyone-loves-it/page__st__15__p__595570786#entry595570786"]You need every little control ever made on your screen at the same time, so you can geek out on double clicking all the things[/url].

However, there is no reason that needs to be that way. Users want content, they want their work. They don't need a cluster**** of controls, menus, and other gizmos clogging up their screens. It's like having a clean house. My dinner isn't out of the fridge until I want it, not out occupying space and in my way, while I'm doing other chores. My socks aren't strewn about the top of my dresser, they're neatly tucked away in the drawer, ready for me to grab a pair when I need them. Same with menus and other gizmos, they don't need to be there until I need them.
[/quote]
But if my food is hidden how would I find it when I'm hungry???!!!
[quote name='xWhiplash' timestamp='1363177878' post='595574670']
Agreed. What does it matter to you guys (the people that says it is pointless....DO NOT USE IT THEN) if they provide an option to boot directly to desktop? That is much better instead of having me to click Desktop 3-6 times a day, and that is the ONLY thing I EVER use the Start Screen for. It is pointless for it to be in my face all the time.



Hmm....I thought when you use a computer, you can use it however you want to. Or am I just mistaken in that? I have some shortcuts for games on my desktop, other things are pinned to my taskbar.

Hmm lets see here....Windows 7 - Only a desktop interface, therefore I did not get an additional click required in my daily routine (sometimes 3-6 times a day jumping from OS X to Windows). Windows 8. The ONLY.....ONLY thing I use the Start Screen for is to click the damn Desktop tile.

So again, what does this matter to you if they provide an option? You have no use for it? Fine. But I do. I would rather keep chatting with a friend (just an example) while I click a desktop icon (or icon in the task bar) than have my 30" monitor completely filled up. Therefore, I do not use the Start Screen at all.
[/quote]
I don't mind having an option. You quoted my post and implied that I was asking everyone to put their PCs to sleep. When did I say that? If your daily routine includes clicking shortcuts on desktop, then do yourself a favor and move them in the start menu if you are on XP/Vista/7 or on to the start screen if you are using Windows 8. Keeping shortcuts on the desktop is the slowest way of launching applications even in Windows XP/Vista/7.
I understand you might have legitimate problems but "my shortcuts are on my desktop" is probably the stupidest argument I've seen so far. Your launchers should be either in the start menu/screen or taskbar.

Pro tip: You never used the computer the way you wanted. Microsoft always designed Windows UI, not you. I think you are getting carried away by the "I'm PC and Windows 7 was my idea" commercials. ;)

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[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1363181451' post='595574790']
The rest can sit off the side of the screen, and wait for me to come back to them.

It's just a different way of displaying and using what we've already learned from using Windows these past 20 years.[/quote]
that kind of workflow actualy even more outdated than Win 3.x workflow.

Meet the ancient XENIX ([url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix"]1980-1989[/url]), a Unix flavor by Microsoft.
The Xenix featuring 10 full-screen virtual consoles (also known as virtual terminals)
where a console can just run a program, so you may have up to 10 running program at a time, which way better than CP/M or DOS at that time.

But being full-screen in nature, only one of them may have you attention at a time,
which you can freely choose using [url="http://www.softpanorama.org/People/Torvalds/Finland_period/xenix_microsoft_shortlived_love_affair_with_unix.shtml"]Alt+F1 to Alt+F10[/url] key combination.

Now, if you compare the nature of ancient Xenix virtual console with Metro workflow, didn't they strikingly similar?
Only one apps may have you attention at a time,
you can freely choose which app that will have your attention.

Therefore i conclude Metro workflow is a glorifed Ancient Xenix virtual consoles.
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Posted

Another issue with Windows 8 is if you have an AIO PC with a touch screen the first boot tutorial will give you the tablet thumb corner swipe demonstration. NEVER informing the user how to use Windows 8 with an actual mouse.

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