Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

241 posts in this topic

Posted

[quote name='warwagon' timestamp='1363188690' post='595575124']
Another issue with Windows 8 is if you have an AIO PC with a touch screen the first boot tutorial will give you the tablet thumb corner swipe demonstration. NEVER informing the user how to use Windows 8 with an actual mouse.
[/quote]

Maybe not the best tutorial, but if you bought a PC with a touch screen, I'm sure you'd want to know how to do that. I mean, the mouse version of Windows 8 is relatively intuitive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='threetonesun' timestamp='1363188937' post='595575136']
I mean, the mouse version of Windows 8 is relatively intuitive.
[/quote]

By intuitive you mean, have the user jab their mouse into every corner of the screen to reveal hidden items?
By intuitive you mean, putting the user in a full screen app with zero visible menus?
By intuitive you mean, letting the user search from the start screen by just typing, yet never informing them that they could do so?
By intuitive you mean, have an actual "All apps" screen yet have it hidden until the user "Right clicks" ? (something a user does very rarely)

By intuitive you mean, don't tell them they can right click to access all their applications and don't tell them they can just type to get to their applications. So how exactly is a user suppose to figure out how to get their applications? The only 2 methods for doing so are hidden and never explained.

By intuitive you mean, set the computers timezone to pacific standard time by default never giving the user the options to configure it during the first boot (like all previous versions of windows) and never explaining to them how to configure it after they have arrived in windows.

By intuitive you mean, covering up the actual log in box with a pretty picture and the time, never informing the user they can just click to get back to the login box.

By intuitive you mean, still give the user quick access to key functions of the system by right clicking a hidden box in the bottom left. Yet never explaining to the user their is a hidden menu in the bottom left, and that you have to right click it to get the list of key functions.

By intuitive you mean, letting users bring up the start screen by pressing the "Windows key" on the keyboard, yet never informing them they even have a windows key on their keyboard and that by pressing it will activate the start screen.

By intuitive you mean, have a CRAP ton of useful shortcuts for accessing things quicker on windows 8 yet never even inform them that these shortcuts exist. (most users don't even know they can press control + c for copy)
9 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='warwagon' timestamp='1363189044' post='595575144']
by idiotic you mean, have the user jab their mouse in the corner of the screen to reveal a hidden bar?
by idiotic you mean putting the user in a full screen app with zero visible menus?
by idiotic you mean letting the user search from the start screen by just typing, yet never informing them that they could do so?
by idiotic you mean have an actual "All apps" screen yet have it hidden until the user "Right clicks" ? (something a user does very rarely)
[/quote]

Fixed that for you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='warwagon' timestamp='1363189044' post='595575144']letting the user search from the start screen by just typing, yet never informing them that they could do so?
[/quote]

By the way, now that you mention that. It would probably make even more sense to have the upper right corner look something like this instead of what I suggested in the OP.

[attachment=329600:corner.png]

If Microsoft would then move the position of the search box in the All Apps view slightly, by modifying the arrangement of the text above it, then the box from the Start screen could actually stay on screen and simply become active, once you start entering text, with only the rest of the UI sliding into view.

[attachment=329602:searchcharm.png]

One unfortunately gets the impression that on many occasions in Windows 8, Microsoft put aesthetics over usability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Wunderground, a weather website recently changed their UI for their Wundermap. This is what the user see's when they access the new UI for the first time. I really think Microsoft should learn from these guys.

[center][img]http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/7889/captureojx.png[/img][/center]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='warwagon' timestamp='1363189044' post='595575144']
By intuitive you mean, have the user jab their mouse into every corner of the screen to reveal hidden items?
By intuitive you mean, putting the user in a full screen app with zero visible menus?
By intuitive you mean, letting the user search from the start screen by just typing, yet never informing them that they could do so?
By intuitive you mean, have an actual "All apps" screen yet have it hidden until the user "Right clicks" ? (something a user does very rarely)

By intuitive you mean, don't tell them they can right click to access all their applications and don't tell them they can just type to get to their applications. So how exactly is a user suppose to figure out how to get their applications? The only 2 methods for doing so are hidden and never explained.

By intuitive you mean, set the computers timezone to pacific standard time by default never giving the user the options to configure it during the first boot (like all previous versions of windows) and never explaining to them how to configure it after they have arrived in windows.

By intuitive you mean, covering up the actual log in box with a pretty picture and the time, never informing the user they can just click to get back to the login box.

By intuitive you mean, still give the user quick access to key functions of the system by right clicking a hidden box in the bottom left. Yet never explaining to the user their is a hidden menu in the bottom left, and that you have to right click it to get the list of key functions.

By intuitive you mean, letting users bring up the start screen by pressing the "Windows key" on the keyboard, yet never informing them they even have a windows key on their keyboard and that by pressing it will activate the start screen.

By intuitive you mean, have a CRAP ton of useful shortcuts for accessing things quicker on windows 8 yet never even inform them that these shortcuts exist. (most users don't even know they can press control + c for copy)
[/quote]

I'm sorry, if the Windows key and the right mouse button aren't intuitive, take your computer off your desk and place it in the nearest trash bin.

For most of these complaints, I would say see the default UI for most smartphones / tablets on the market today. They all equally obscure menus / search functions / options.

[quote name='warwagon' timestamp='1363191290' post='595575232']
Wunderground, a weather website recently changed their UI for their Wundermap. This is what the user see's when they access the new UI for the first time. I really think Microsoft should learn from these guys.

[/quote]

While yes, everything is obvious and accessible in their new UI, it's usability is incredibly questionable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='BajiRav' timestamp='1363187222' post='595575084']
Pro tip: You never used the computer the way you wanted. Microsoft always designed Windows UI, not you.
[/quote]

This phrase says it all.

[quote name='warwagon' timestamp='1363188690' post='595575124']
Another issue with Windows 8 is if you have an AIO PC with a touch screen the first boot tutorial will give you the tablet thumb corner swipe demonstration. NEVER informing the user how to use Windows 8 with an actual mouse.
[/quote]

So? People know how to use a friggin mouse. They know how to right click to find menus, they know how to move the mouse around to find the Charms Bar. (N)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='threetonesun' timestamp='1363191672' post='595575242']While yes, everything is obvious and accessible in their new UI, it's usability is incredibly questionable.
[/quote]
That's the thing. While such explanations are nice and helpful, it's often not a good sign when they're needed in the first place. Even the latest version of iTunes has such explanations. And comes with its own [url="http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2012/12/14/itunes_11/"]usability issues[/url]...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='warwagon' timestamp='1363189044' post='595575144']
By intuitive you mean, have the user jab their mouse into every corner of the screen to reveal hidden items?
By intuitive you mean, putting the user in a full screen app with zero visible menus?
By intuitive you mean, letting the user search from the start screen by just typing, yet never informing them that they could do so?
By intuitive you mean, have an actual "All apps" screen yet have it hidden until the user "Right clicks" ? (something a user does very rarely)

By intuitive you mean, don't tell them they can right click to access all their applications and don't tell them they can just type to get to their applications. So how exactly is a user suppose to figure out how to get their applications? The only 2 methods for doing so are hidden and never explained.

By intuitive you mean, set the computers timezone to pacific standard time by default never giving the user the options to configure it during the first boot (like all previous versions of windows) and never explaining to them how to configure it after they have arrived in windows.

By intuitive you mean, covering up the actual log in box with a pretty picture and the time, never informing the user they can just click to get back to the login box.

By intuitive you mean, still give the user quick access to key functions of the system by right clicking a hidden box in the bottom left. Yet never explaining to the user their is a hidden menu in the bottom left, and that you have to right click it to get the list of key functions.

By intuitive you mean, letting users bring up the start screen by pressing the "Windows key" on the keyboard, yet never informing them they even have a windows key on their keyboard and that by pressing it will activate the start screen.

By intuitive you mean, have a CRAP ton of useful shortcuts for accessing things quicker on windows 8 yet never even inform them that these shortcuts exist. (most users don't even know they can press control + c for copy)
[/quote]
None of those are any more hidden than right-click or double click. These are learned skills, you are not born with them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1363178091' post='595574676']
That would break everything Microsoft is doing. They're converging their user experiences into one, not separating them out anymore. Even on traditional desktops, the Metro Start Screen is meant as a dashboard to your PC. Pin your go to desktop app to it, and be done. Once you click it, you're on the desktop, with your app open, ready to go. All it takes is one click. That's one less than on a traditional desktop.
[/quote]

Round peg into a square hole. You can't mash the desktop experience into full screen metro. Using Windows 8 as intended feels like using two separate operating systems. They do not mix well. If you're using the desktop (for actually useful things), you open the start menu and you're displaced. It breaks the flow and feels unnatural.

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1363181451' post='595574790']
Now, unless you're some hotshot, "power user" still stuck in the past, pretending that a zillion and one things cluttered all over the screen, is "cool", and somehow makes you think you're better than everyone else
[/quote]

Lol. What the hell.
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote]By intuitive you mean, have the user jab their mouse into every corner of the screen to reveal hidden items?[/quote]
The corners are the top second to top fifth most easily and reliably accessed points on any given screen, making them the best place to place interactive elements. This is not less inherently intuitive than having users aim for a Start button and require them to click on it to do things like...shut down. In addition, the effective hit area for a corner is immensely larger than that for a button - most people actually click the corner when they go for the Start button instead of somewhere in the middle.

[quote]By intuitive you mean, putting the user in a full screen app with zero visible menus?[/quote]
Users have already been habituated to contextual actions that are brought up by right-clicking. Aside from these actions, they interact primarily with content in whatever program or application they are using. For example, in a web browser, the primary interaction is passive: you view the content area that displays the web page about 95% of the time if not more. Substantially less time is spent on navigating the forward and back arrows, refreshing the page, printing the page, looking at the source code, etc.

[quote]By intuitive you mean, letting the user search from the start screen by just typing, yet never informing them that they could do so?[/quote]
This will be something that people get used to, but the series of actions to initiate a search is completely identical to that which has existed in the prior two versions of Windows. Ever since Vista was released, a search can be initiated without looking at the screen: hit the windows key or throw the pointer and click the bottom left corner of the screen, then start typing.

[quote]By intuitive you mean, have an actual "All apps" screen yet have it hidden until the user "Right clicks" ? (something a user does very rarely)[/quote]
Users are familiar with right-clicking to bring up additional options by now. This has existed in Windows for a substantial amount of time.

[quote]By intuitive you mean, set the computers timezone to pacific standard time by default never giving the user the options to configure it during the first boot (like all previous versions of windows) and never explaining to them how to configure it after they have arrived in windows.[/quote]
I don't recall having to look very hard to get to the time settings. If you search for "time" in settings, the first hit is the right one.

[quote]By intuitive you mean, covering up the actual log in box with a pretty picture and the time, never informing the user they can just click to get back to the login box.[/quote]
The first thing most people will do is click somewhere.

[quote]By intuitive you mean, still give the user quick access to key functions of the system by right clicking a hidden box in the bottom left. Yet never explaining to the user their is a hidden menu in the bottom left, and that you have to right click it to get the list of key functions.[/quote]
It looks like every single one of those options is available from the Start screen as well.

[quote]By intuitive you mean, letting users bring up the start screen by pressing the "Windows key" on the keyboard, yet never informing them they even have a windows key on their keyboard and that by pressing it will activate the start screen.[/quote]
We've never informed users that they have an "a" key on the keyboard and that pressing it will result in an "a" being typed into any text box on the screen either. Strangely enough, they seem to have picked it up somehow.

[quote]By intuitive you mean, have a CRAP ton of useful shortcuts for accessing things quicker on windows 8 yet never even inform them that these shortcuts exist. (most users don't even know they can press control + c for copy) [/quote]
No less obscured than previous versions of windows.

It really seems like you're basing these statements on the case where a user has never seen a computer before, and an obvious result of that is that there is a learning curve.
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='CSharp.' timestamp='1363192206' post='595575262']
That's the thing. While such explanations are nice and helpful, it's usually not a good sign if they're needed in the first place. Even the latest version of iTunes has such explanations. And comes with its own [url="http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2012/12/14/itunes_11/"]usability issues[/url]...
[/quote]

The bigger issue with wunderground is that a) their site becomes a scrolling-clusterduck once you start digging into the options, b) a lot of the additional UI is for covert advertising, and c) the majority of their users just want a map to show them if it's raining.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1363192083' post='595575254']
This phrase says it all.

So? People know how to use a friggin mouse. (N)
[/quote]

what the hell does "Knowing how to use a friggin mouse" have to do with finding hidden menu's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='warwagon' timestamp='1363192794' post='595575284']
what the hell does "Knowing how to use a friggin mouse" have to do with finding hidden menu's.
[/quote]

Is a right click menu hidden if you have a mouse? Unless your right mouse button is hidden, I would argue no.

Remember when OSX shipped with one button mouses but had a right click menu? That was, arguably, hidden.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='warwagon' timestamp='1363192794' post='595575284']
what the hell does "Knowing how to use a friggin mouse" have to do with finding hidden menu's.
[/quote]

People use hidden menus *everday*. Right click the desktop, and what do you get? *gasp* a hidden menu!
Same thing in your browser, right click and what do you get? *gasp* a hidden menu!
Right click in Office, and what do you get? *Shock and horror* hidden menus!

Oh noes. Guess we'll have to toss this crap out too, since people can't do **** with their machines, according to your theory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1363193089' post='595575296']
People use hidden menus *everday*. Right click the desktop, and what do you get? *gasp* a hidden menu!
Same thing in your browser, right click and what do you get? *gasp* a hidden menu!
Right click in Office, and what do you get? *Shock and horror* hidden menus!

Oh noes. Guess we'll have to toss this crap out too, since people can't do **** with their machines, according to your theory.
[/quote]

woah, you need to relax about Windows 8. Its just a simple fact that windows 8 is a consumer failure, where they didn't do or listen to the right people. Now we have this mish mash of Metro and other elements which is just plain wrong. Kudos to the OP, because dear god , W8 needs sooo much improvement right now, its not even funny!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[center]Here is a very Quick Mockup of what Consumers should have been shown on the first launch of windows 8.[/center]
[center][i]Notice how 90% of what we are pointing to is hidden?[/i][/center]

[center][img]http://imageshack.us/a/img145/4466/testftv.jpg[/img][/center]
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='xWhiplash' timestamp='1363141194' post='595574116']
Um, run a program where I have a shortcut on the desktop. I do not jump in the start menu right away.....so why not give us a damn choice if we want to avoid the Start Screen right away. Clicking Desktop 3-6 times a day is very very very annoying. I do NOT click anything else, or ever visit the Start Screen after that.....so why is it forced on me? Was the Start Menu automatically open with every Windows version? No. Why does the start screen HAVE to be open initially?
[/quote]

No disrepect here; but I can't conceive of how you're using your computer that you're hitting the start screen 3 to 6 times a day. The only time I see the start screen is when I reboot; and with the press of the Windows key away it goes and I never see it again until next reboot.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='- Kaboose -' timestamp='1363193847' post='595575336']
W8 needs sooo much improvement right now, its not even funny!
[/quote]
What's not even funny is this idea that people move to Windows 8 and suddenly forget the right-click function, making Windows 8 bad. :rolleyes:
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1363193089' post='595575296']
People use hidden menus *everday*. Right click the desktop, and what do you get? *gasp* a hidden menu!
Same thing in your browser, right click and what do you get? *gasp* a hidden menu!
Right click in Office, and what do you get? *Shock and horror* hidden menus!

Oh noes. Guess we'll have to toss this crap out too, since people can't do **** with their machines, according to your theory.
[/quote]

There is a difference between right clicking to bring up a traditional right click menu and right clicking to bring up a hidden icon
There is a difference between right clicking to bring up a traditional right click menu and having to put your mouse on top of a particular pixel in the corner of the screen to activate a hidden menu.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Relativity_17' timestamp='1363194306' post='595575354']
What's not even funny is this idea that people move to Windows 8 and suddenly forget the right-click function, making Windows 8 bad. :rolleyes:
[/quote]

slow uptick != failure. Remember, there are still at least some 20% of users still on XP jumping ship this year.

[quote name='warwagon' timestamp='1363194462' post='595575362']
There is a difference between right clicking to bring up a traditional right click menu and right clicking to bring up a hidden icon
There is a difference between right clicking to bring up a traditional right click menu and having to put your mouse on top of a particular pixel in the corner of the screen to activate a hidden menu.
[/quote]

There is no difference in right clicking. A right click is a right click is a right click. In both cases, you get options.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Relativity_17' timestamp='1363194306' post='595575354']
What's not even funny is this idea that people move to Windows 8 and suddenly forget the right-click function, making Windows 8 bad. :rolleyes:
[/quote]

here is an example. When I walk someone over the phone to open Gotoassist on an XP computer, I do the following if the icon is not located on the desktop. I have them click start / all programs and then "Right click" on accessories and tell them to left click sort by name. This way it alphabetizes the list so they can find the citrix folder. Most of the time after using the words "right click and then left click" I get the following question when I ask them to "open" the citrix folder..... "Which mouse button do I use, the right or the left"

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1363194641' post='595575370']
There is no difference in right clicking. A right click is a right click is a right click. In both cases, you get options.
[/quote]

But why hide the "All apps" menu in the first place? Why isn't visible on the button on the screen somewhere?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='warwagon' timestamp='1363194840' post='595575380']
here is an example. When I walk someone over the phone to open Gotoassist on an XP computer, I do the following if the icon is not located on the desktop. I have them click start / all programs and then "Right click" on accessories and tell them to left click sort by name. This way it alphabetizes the list so they can find the citrix folder. Most of the time after using the words "right click and then left click" I get the following question when I ask them to "open" the citrix folder..... "Which mouse button do I use, the right or the left"
[/quote]

No offense, but do you work at a Senior Center? I've never in this day and age had someone ask me "What is a right click?".

[quote name='warwagon' timestamp='1363194840' post='595575380']
But why hide the "All apps" menu in the first place? Why isn't visible on the button on the screen somewhere?
[/quote]

Metro is about reducing screen clutter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='warwagon' timestamp='1363194840' post='595575380']
But why hide the "All apps" menu in the first place? Why isn't visible on the button on the screen somewhere?
[/quote]

For the same reason the dock in OSX doesn't have every single application icon on it.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1363195362' post='595575408']
Metro is about reducing screen clutter.
[/quote]

By clutter you mean icons for key functionality of an OS?

[quote name='threetonesun' timestamp='1363195596' post='595575416']
For the same reason the dock in OSX doesn't have every single application icon on it.
[/quote]

yes but the first icon on the far left of the dock is properly named "finder" ( which you use to find stuff, like your applications) which takes you window which has the applications menu. A better example would be them hiding the dock entirely by default, only to be visible until you put your mouse in the bottom right corner of the screen or pressing a key on your keyboard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.