VGLeaks: First look as Durango XDK (always connected, kinect required)

[the better twin]

We haven't seen anything yet and people are already overreacting big time. ---> These rumours fall in line with previous ones. Edge reported all this stuff and they were spot on with their PS4 stuff as well. Theres no smoke without fire.

1) We don't really have all of the facts. ---> True, but see above

2) Who cares if Kinect is needed for the OS, I think that's how it should be. Using a controller to navigate OS menus is archaic. ---> No just no. Using an accurate device, perfected over years of use is now archaic compared to inaccurately waving your arms about or mistake prone voice commands? I dont think so.

3) It's always on using low power (um like the Wii, big deal). ---> Depends, Kinect is required to be plugged in and on, if they do the same with the online connection....

4) Always online (like a PC), this does not mean the games will always have to be online. ---> Like a pc? Like SimCity you mean? or all the other DRM games that only let you play if you are connected to their servers?

Most of the people on this forum are a bunch of drama queens and Microsoft haven't even announced their console yet, let alone have an E3 Keynote for it and a lot of you are bailing out on something you don't even understand yet.

Please, don't even lecture me about Rationality and Logic ever again. Let's wait and get confirmation by E3 of all of these fears so we can get the facts from the source on what all of this means.

[SiCKX]

This is just very old stuff that stays as speculation. The "always on" for games has proven to upset gamers, how about Sim City? :D

The PS4 has barely been given some specs and even that could change, remember the boomerang gamepad? Even if originally MS wanted their console to have these "hated" features, unless official word and final console is out it's just stuff to feed websites with hits.

[George P Global Moderator]

But it's been over six years since the PS3 launched with its 2x (9MB/s) drive; surely Blu-Ray drive speeds have improved to more usable levels in that time? Looking at the PS4's specs, the answer is

"yes", as it's going to have a 6x (27MB/s) drive.

The speed is better than what it was but at the same time the games are also getting bigger. We'll see how it goes but even at 6x 27MB/s that's still way slower than what you'll get from a SATA3 hdd.

[Lamp0]

Seriously?

You HAVE to install ALL games, unless the HDD is like 1Tb you aren't going to fit many 35-50Gb games on a HDD. I bet they will require you to have the disc in the drive as well even though its installed and playing from HDD.

Always on, kinect mandatory, amazing how arrogant a company can be, PS4 definitely for me this generation.

Arrogant? How are they being arrogant?

God, some people are so damn sensitive about this stuff.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

There's nothing wrong with them bundling Kinect with the next Xbox, it allows devs to rely on it (Similar to how devs can rely on a hard drive). It doesn't force them to use it but it gets rid of the distinction between kinect and "normal" Xbox games.

[spaceelf]

But it's been over six years since the PS3 launched with its 2x (9MB/s) drive; surely Blu-Ray drive speeds have improved to more usable levels in that time? Looking at the PS4's specs, the answer is

"yes", as it's going to have a 6x (27MB/s) drive.

Access times still kill it, even HDs suffer in that regards...and when you're dealing with as much data as these games can that's not a good deal (nor are the read speeds.) Load issues could be insane.

http://www.newegg.co...8609&IsNodeId=1

There's nothing wrong with them bundling Kinect with the next Xbox, it allows devs to rely on it (Similar to how devs can rely on a hard drive). It doesn't force them to use it but it gets rid of the distinction between kinect and "normal" Xbox games.

The distinction will remove itself since Kinect will be so much more capable. The doubts might be deserved since gen 1 is kind of a joke, but it still seems a bit silly.

[Yogurtmaster]

Considering it was only posted yesterday on VGLeaks, hardly old news.

You need to look at plenty of sources such as EDGE. This is old news, like at least by 1.5 to 2 months old at least.

[MightyJordan]

The speed is better than what it was but at the same time the games are also getting bigger. We'll see how it goes but even at 6x 27MB/s that's still way slower than what you'll get from a SATA3 hdd.

Access times still kill it, even HDs suffer in that regards...and when you're dealing with as much data as these games can that's not a good deal (nor are the read speeds.) Load issues could be insane.

http://www.newegg.co...8609&IsNodeId=1

OK, thanks for clearing that up, guys. (Y)

[Yogurtmaster]

>>We haven't seen anything yet and people are already overreacting big time.<<

Including you. With your opinions. Just like everyone else here, and as we all know, everyone has an opinion and no one thinks theirs stinks. You're no exception.

>> 2) Who cares if Kinect is needed for the OS, I think that's how it should be. Using a controller to navigate OS menus is archaic.

Please give a real world example, other than a smartphone for which there is no controller, in which using a controller to navigate OS menus is archaic?

Playing media like a CD, DVD, or other media for movies and TV for example

Archaic

• Very old or old-fashioned.
  
• (of a word or a style of language) No longer in everyday use but sometimes used to impart an old-fashioned flavor.
  

>>3) It's always on using low power (um like the Wii, big deal).

4) Always online (like a PC), this does not mean the games will always have to be online.<<

A PC absolutely is not always online. Your internet connection may be, but not your PC. And being online is not require for it to fully function. You can block whatever communications you want with a firewall or even disable your network adapter. This is a ridiculous analogy.

This does not mean the Xbox will have to be online to function, but always online for most things make a lot of sense. The PC is always online with playing games like Steam.

Everyone in the world knows that without online your PC is a lot less useful. This is a fact. Stop pretending that all of a sudden playing a local card game or only using office is the only thing people use their computers for. If you disable the Internet functionality you can still get work done, but you take most of the functionality away.

The issue for many isn't power or being online, it's the requirement to be online connected to big brother for the console to function. And if people don't like it, the don't have to and may not buy it. It's that simple.

Nobody said it had to be online to function and this is funny because look at Steam and somehow everyone dismisses that. People don't like things because of dumb reasons and as I have stated most of this overreaction is dumb.

[MorganX]

My PC is always online, connected to different services and often downloading things, anyways that's not the point. Your jumping to a conclusion here. They say always on and always connected. This fits with the idea of it being able to check for updates and install them automatically, it's connected standby on a console. It's not stated that you have to be always online to use it or play games. I expect to see more of a app store in the next Xbox, it's also looking like we're getting more of a true multitasking system. If you want the apps you have to stay up to date like on your pc or smartphones then the system has to have the same connected standby option there.

No conclusion, just presumption, if there is always on DRM or it is required for core functionality, I won't buy in to it. Of course, if Sony goes in the same direction, there will be no choice. I'm thinking PC gaming is going to see a sizeable comeback personally, so I'm not too sure it's going to matter much to me. I have a Kinect now and don't use it. It's easier to navigate with the controller.

Sony does have more non-FPS games I want as well.

Playing media like a CD, DVD, or other media for movies and TV for example

Nobody said it had to be online to function and this is funny because look at Steam and somehow everyone dismisses that. People don't like things because of dumb reasons and as I have stated most of this overreaction is dumb.

Archaic means old fashioned. So you're telling me that people are currently waving their hands around to navigate media, CDs, DVDs, as opposed to a controller (which includes remotes, gamepads, and smartphones with smartglass).

Edit: Sitting on a couch for entertainment purposes does make more sense than anywhere else, I'll give you that. I just don't see it ever becoming mainstream.

My general point is, don't rip people a new one for their opinions or presumptions when that is primarily what occurs in online forums. Most discussions on unreleased products, pro or con to your preferred platform, is based on "if."

[Yogurtmaster]

We haven't seen anything yet and people are already overreacting big time. ---> These rumours fall in line with previous ones. Edge reported all this stuff and they were spot on with their PS4 stuff as well. Theres no smoke without fire.

1) We don't really have all of the facts. ---> True, but see above

I am not saying the rumors are false. I am saying that we don't have all of the information on why they are doing this and what things might be added for example.

People are making everything out to be negatives because they are a bunch of drama queens with no real reasons why these things are bad. There could be some great games and great features that use these things that provide with some innovation and fun game play.

2) Who cares if Kinect is needed for the OS, I think that's how it should be. Using a controller to navigate OS menus is archaic. ---> No just no. Using an accurate device, perfected over years of use is now archaic compared to inaccurately waving your arms about or mistake prone voice commands? I dont think so.

So, in other words you haven't use Kinect yet. Kinect 2.0 is supposed to be even more impressive and accurate than the first and cost less in the box as well. I have used Kinect 1.0 and it has worked great. There have been some things like bad lighting conditions that had a problem but that won't be a problem now because they are using Active IR to help with that. So yes, when I have to plug in a battery to use my controller to use the media because I want to save battery power, then yes this is archaic and broken. When I have to use the sticks to navigate when the controller is on the other side of the room, when I can just use my fingers while sitting down, then that controller method is archaic and broken. When I have to use a controller to try to navigate to find thousands of items to get what I want and instead I can just say what I want using my voice and get to exactly what I need instantly then the controller method is archaic and broken. It's great for video games, but broken for navigation and messaging.

3) It's always on using low power (um like the Wii, big deal). ---> Depends, Kinect is required to be plugged in and on, if they do the same with the online connection....

My Wii always was on and did it's own updates overnight while I slept. Kinect 2.0 uses a USB 3.0 connection. Big deal. Don't have an issue with this.

4) Always online (like a PC), this does not mean the games will always have to be online. ---> Like a pc? Like SimCity you mean? or all the other DRM games that only let you play if you are connected to their servers?

I am talking like a PC here. I don't see a problem with this. Smart phones are always online. OMG I don't want my Xbox online too? What if you could access it remote automation while you are at work?

You guys are making these things to be a much bigger deal than they actually are. They are actually kind of interesting and neat because there is a lot you can do here.

[MorganX]

I am talking like a PC here. I don't see a problem with this. Smart phones are always online. OMG I don't want my Xbox online too?

I don't think anyone has a problem with that. The current Xbox is always online in that sense. However, it is not "required" to be online at all times to function or to play a game locally. Whether or not this is what is meant by "required to be always online" in this case, remains to be seen.

[TheLegendOfMart]

Arrogant? How are they being arrogant?

God, some people are so damn sensitive about this stuff.

Arrogant like Sony were with the PS3, after the massive success of the PS2 they thought they knew best and put out the PS3 with its complex CELL cpu, they originally wanted 2x CELL with one for graphics.

Much like Microsoft is doing now, Xbox 360 was a big success so now they think they can force things like always on, always connected, always watching bullcrap.

[Yogurtmaster]

No conclusion, just presumption, if there is always on DRM or it is required for core functionality, I won't buy in to it. Of course, if Sony goes in the same direction, there will be no choice. I'm thinking PC gaming is going to see a sizeable comeback personally, so I'm not too sure it's going to matter much to me. I have a Kinect now and don't use it. It's easier to navigate with the controller.

Sony does have more non-FPS games I want as well.

Archaic means old fashioned. So you're telling me that people are currently waving their hands around to navigate media, CDs, DVDs, as opposed to a controller (which includes remotes, gamepads, and smartphones with smartglass).

Edit: Sitting on a couch for entertainment purposes does make more sense than anywhere else, I'll give you that. I just don't see it ever becoming mainstream.

My general point is, don't rip people a new one for their opinions or presumptions when that is primarily what occurs in online forums. Most discussions on unreleased products, pro or con to your preferred platform, is based on "if."

I know what Archaic means guys. The original Playstation used the controller as the means to manipulate Music CD contents and the PS2 used the controller to play DVD movies and the PS3 etc...That is why it's Archaic because a controller that has been used for video games has been shoehorned into media for a long time. It simply does not make sense to use it for media anymore and we have been using it for a long time for something it's not meant for.

Well, I get tired of the hardcore because they have very knee jerked reactions without seeing what is really going on. They instantly judge and make things out to be negatives without thinking through things and also without understanding that not everything is bad.

Kinect in my opinion is only going to get better as the technology also gets better. The technology has also become cheaper. Also, Kinect isn't going to be the only item in the box. You will also get a game-pad controller for the hardcore (god forbid if anything is changed, we might have a hissy fit).

I am not just talking about the Xbox here, go look at what hardcore gamers are saying about the talk that David Cage (PS4 developer) said about gaming not growing and being the same old games just with newer graphics back at DICE. He wants to expand game play and a lot of hardcore gamers are angry at him.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

The problem with always online isn't worrying about your connection, its worrying about theirs. PSN/XBL have downtime, things break, SimCity anyone?

True you may not need to be online all the time, but with games needing to be installed, it sounds like it may be an anti used system where you need to be online to register the game. There's no other logical reason for a rumour of needing to install EVERY game. The PS3 streams many games, and we are getting a faster blu ray drive now.

Kinect was always going to be bundled, but REQUIRING it to be plugged in is strange. MS always watching you? Haha.

[Yogurtmaster]

I don't think anyone has a problem with that. The current Xbox is always online in that sense. However, it is not "required" to be online at all times to function or to play a game locally. Whether or not this is what is meant by "required to be always online" in this case, remains to be seen.

1) We don't know that is the case yet.

2) If used correctly I wouldn't see an issue with this. Examples: Part of your world could be changed dynamically as you play it by using the cloud or you could have an option that you turn on where people could spectate your game play. Maybe a character could interact with you using the latest news or technology headlines.

Using online could actually enhance game play in real time in the background as you play. If used properly of course.

[HawkMan]

But it's been over six years since the PS3 launched with its 2x (9MB/s) drive; surely Blu-Ray drive speeds have improved to more usable levels in that time? Looking at the PS4's specs, the answer is

"yes", as it's going to have a 6x (27MB/s) drive.

WOOOW a whole 27 MBPS , yeah that's fast enough to fill up you consoles several GBPS speed memory...

[Yogurtmaster]

The problem with always online isn't worrying about your connection, its worrying about theirs. PSN/XBL have downtime, things break, SimCity anyone?

True you may not need to be online all the time, but with games needing to be installed, it sounds like it may be an anti used system where you need to be online to register the game. There's no other logical reason for a rumour of needing to install EVERY game. The PS3 streams many games, and we are getting a faster blu ray drive now.

Kinect was always going to be bundled, but REQUIRING it to be plugged in is strange. MS always watching you? Haha.

Well, here is how I can see it. It would be really stupid to not have a backup plan if you could not access the servers.

Microsoft has been working with servers and the Internet for a long time. Now other than Xbox Live itself or MMO games

I would think that you could play if you were not able to get an Internet connection.

It could be an enhancement say enhancing your game using the online experience or of course MMO games which could use it.

Speaking of first world problems, my biggest pain is walking across the room to find the game disk I want to play and putting in the disk.

The install feature would be awesome because I could switch games almost instantly and using voice as well. Remember you can install them while you play them at the same time.

So, installing the game while I play makes me actually happy because that rocks as long as I don't have to find the disk I am fine with it.

Arrogant like Sony were with the PS3, after the massive success of the PS2 they thought they knew best and put out the PS3 with its complex CELL cpu, they originally wanted 2x CELL with one for graphics.

Much like Microsoft is doing now, Xbox 360 was a big success so now they think they can force things like always on, always connected, always watching bullcrap.

Jumping to conclusions and seeing everything as negative. It's not arrogance, it's progressive. You are still living in 1999.

"OMG Microsoft is trying to innovate and be progressive, they are so arrogant!"

You wonder why most people think that people who are hardcore at playing games are so immature. Well, there you go. You just showed them.

[fusi0n]

The always on is most likely for the XDKs only.. They cracked down hard on Xbox 360 XDKs being loose in the wild.. For them to connect to Partner Net, you have to give them your IP to have it Whitelisted.. Before that, Microsoft was bricking rouge XDKs.. Luckily, mine is legit lol

[MightyJordan]

WOOOW a whole 27 MBPS , yeah that's fast enough to fill up you consoles several GBPS speed memory...

Here's a tip: Don't be a douche when replying to someone who's ignorant on the issue; you'll be taken more seriously then.

[HawkMan]

Archaic means old fashioned. So you're telling me that people are currently waving their hands around to navigate media, CDs, DVDs, as opposed to a controller (which includes remotes, gamepads, and smartphones with smartglass).

Edit: Sitting on a couch for entertainment purposes does make more sense than anywhere else, I'll give you that. I just don't see it ever becoming mainstream.

All the major tv makers disagree.

[LittleNeutrino Veteran]

i am not sure how i feel about having to install the game.

[TheLegendOfMart]

Jumping to conclusions and seeing everything as negative. It's not arrogance, it's progressive. You are still living in 1999.

"OMG Microsoft is trying to innovate and be progressive, they are so arrogant!"

You wonder why most people think that people who are hardcore at playing games are so immature. Well, there you go. You just showed them.

Weak specs, media focused, anti used games, always on, always connected, always watching, mandatory game installs, how is that progressive. Microsoft is giving developers/consumers what Microsoft thinks they want rather than what the devs/consumers actually want.

As for your silly little comments trying to belittle me for no reason whatsoever, jog on.

Speaking of first world problems, my biggest pain is walking across the room to find the game disk I want to play and putting in the disk.

The install feature would be awesome because I could switch games almost instantly and using voice as well. Remember you can install them while you play them at the same time.

So, installing the game while I play makes me actually happy because that rocks as long as I don't have to find the disk I am fine with it.

They didn't allow it with game installs on the 360, what makes you think they will allow you to install the game and not require you to have the disk in the drive, as I said, Microsoft are doing what Microsoft wants rather than what the consumer wants.

[spacer]

Mandatory installs doesn't really bother me. I already do that with my 360 if I know I'll be playing a game often. It's the always on, always online part that I can't stand.

If my console is off, it should be off. No "low draw" states or any of that garbage. And the always online part is most likely DRM. Sure they refer to it as a way of keeping the console and your games always up to date when you're not using it, and they didn't explicitly state it was DRM. But lets be honest, the way the industry is headed today, it's going to be some form of DRM. In fact, it already technically is, since it's not going to allow used games.

Mandatory Kinect doesn't really appeal to me either, but I'll wait and see how required it truly is once they reveal the OS. If Kinect isn't a tool to make normal workflows easier, but is truly required to get 100% functionality out of the console, (i.e. the controller can't let you operate the console with 100% functionality) then it becomes a detriment. Also since it's required to be plugged in, I'm not looking forward to yet another wire to have to deal with in my entertainment center.

Overall, it looks like I won't be getting the nextbox; which is sad considering the 360 is my favorite console of the current generation.

[Blackhearted]

The fact that the (worthless) kinect is forced upon you and included in the box makes the earlier reports of the xbox 3 being significantly underpowered(compared to the ps4) seem all the more true. Unless microsoft decides to be the sony this time around and charge an obscene price for the system. But i doubt they would, as greedy as they are.

Jumping to conclusions and seeing everything as negative. It's not arrogance, it's progressive. You are still living in 1999.

"OMG Microsoft is trying to innovate and be progressive, they are so arrogant!"

You wonder why most people think that people who are hardcore at playing games are so immature. Well, there you go. You just showed them.

LOL @ innovate. How exactly are they trying to innovate? Always on and online isn't new and innovative. Neither is installing a game new and innovative. Nor is their motion control gimmick that has been proven time and again to be absolutely worthless for anything more than casual and dance/fitness games.

Please take off your microsoft fan goggles.