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#121 The_Decryptor

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 06:28

Assuming it uses the same speed blu-ray player as the PS4 (6x), that's 27 MB/s, which means it would only take about 5 seconds to load ~135MB. For comparison sake, a DVD drive at its max can only read 18 MB/s. Considering both next-gen consoles are rumored to support "instant play" within a few seconds, I can see 6x being enough (for the PS4 at least). I don't like the idea of having to install a game...that's what us old folks like to call a "PC".


Of course hard drives have read speeds of 125MBps+, so it'll be even faster if you install the game to the drive.


#122 George P

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:06

If you have to install to the hdd for performance sake and this still isn't official or anything, if you can start playing as it's installing then it's not so bad. On another note if installing to the hdd is still optional then being able to start playing as it installs is a bonus that I like. Performance aside another reason they might make installs mandatory could very well be in order to auto patch any game you have regardless of if you're going to play it next or a month from now. That as well could be something very good in the end.

We'll have to wait and see though, once we get official word of things then we can talk about it. These leaked docs are said to be over a year old and they say right at the top that they're all subject to change.

#123 compl3x

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:10

DO we know if it is just going to be average HDDs like you can do with a PS3 now or is MS going to make us waste unnecessary cash on HDDs like the ones the 360 currently use?

#124 TheLegendOfMart

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:12

Knowing Microsoft you will only be able to use their own branded HDD in a proprietary caddy.

#125 BajiRav

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:02

If mandatory installs are like Office 2013 streaming installs, it won't be much of a problem really.

Always on, always connected sounds more like a marketing term than a requirement. I guess it will be same as ps4 and will be using the connected standby mode for updates.

#126 George P

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:07

If mandatory installs are like Office 2013 streaming installs, it won't be much of a problem really.

Always on, always connected sounds more like a marketing term than a requirement. I guess it will be same as ps4 and will be using the connected standby mode for updates.


It is a marketing term really, I remember them using it before for other things.

#127 vetDirtyLarry

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:32

Errr. size on disk has no relevance to what resolution the game runs at, in fact chances are a game with smaller disk size would in fact run at higher resolution on the console, and last I checked more games ran at high er res on the 360 than the PS3, especially multi platform games.

that argument makes no sense at all.

What? If it is a higher resolution, they can in theory use higher quality textures and assetts, which would not doubt take up more disk space.
And again, taking words out of context to make your point. My words clearly stated...


Actually it might. A decent amount of those games he listed from the PS3 run at a slightly higher resolution then 360 games. Somebody took the time to figure out the native resolution of most games on each system here. The games that do run at a similar resolution on the 360 also sometimes come with two disks (Halo 4).

I was in fact looking at the games TheLegendOfMart posted, and it is pretty easy to see those first party Sony titles usually run at a higher resolution then the 1st party developed MS titles. Not sure how or why, but considering how extensive the page I posted was, I take this persons word for it.



With Halo 4, the second disk is purely multiplayer content, and the most likely reason it's separate is so that you can install the disk to your console (I don't think the Xbox supports installing specific content from a disk to the HDD, it's an all or nothing type affair)

Is it not the MP content because both SP and MP could not fit on one disk? How is that not running out of room?

#128 HawkMan

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:44

What? If it is a higher resolution, they can in theory use higher quality textures and assetts, which would not doubt take up more disk space.
And again, taking words out of context to make your point. My words clearly stated...


Which was my point, the games with higher res assets would then give lower frame rates, not higher as you claimed. But that wasn't what you said anyway. You said bigger disks meant the game could run at higher resolution, a connection that doesn't exist, anywhere. No as I said, in that case it would be the other way, the games with bigger disks and thus higher red assets would then have to run a lower res to compensate.

There was toying out of context about my quote there.


Also some first party MS titles technically run at higher res, since they render each scene twice, ref. Halo games, which use double pass rendering.

Point being, disk size has nothing to do with render size. And as ha been pointed out numerous times, the PS3 didn't have enough memory to really make use of the BD storage space.

Is it not the MP content because both SP and MP could not fit on one disk? How is that not running out of room?


Same assets on mp and sp. jus different map files, the map files themselves aren't that big, it's the assets that eat up room.

#129 sharpy2k4

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 14:17

I can't see what any of the issues are.

When I used to be a PC gamer (pre-steam's preloader) I would have to INSTALL the game before I could play it. If i ran out of space on my HDD I would either uninstall a game or buy a new HDD. So everyone moaning about that is clearly nuts or under 20.

Installing onto the Xbox 360 & PS3 is optional and i presume a minority used it, but having it mandatory for the next Xbox isn't a deal breaker, it bares no impact on my gaming experience and entertainment. thats why i buy a console to get entertainment. If it loads quicker then its great. I can't see how this is a negative point at all.

Always on/connected - Not an issue, my pc/laptop is always connected to the internet when its turned on, and my 360 automatically connects to Xbox Live. Can't really see how thats an issue? As long as the DRM thats implemented isn't invasive in any way and detrements my gaming experience then I couldn't care less.

Kinect bundled with the Xbox and being required to plug in? - Great! I've always toyed with the idea of getting a Kinect but never got round to it. Having it with the new xbox means devs can integrate it more and actually make it worthwhile to have. Yes having it plugged in as a requirement is a pain but get over it. As yet we don't know why thats required or what they intend to use it for other than the obvious so any comments really are uneccesary until we at least know more.



#130 BajiRav

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 14:44

It's very likely that Kinect is integrated into nextBox and only thing you need to "connect" are the actual sensors(cameras, mics etc.) which for practical reasons can't be integrated.

#131 TheLegendOfMart

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 14:47

When I used to be a PC gamer (pre-steam's preloader) I would have to INSTALL the game before I could play it. If i ran out of space on my HDD I would either uninstall a game or buy a new HDD. So everyone moaning about that is clearly nuts or under 20.

You've never been able to play the game from a CD/DVD in the PC, you've always had to install it, so the comparison is silly.

#132 Blackhearted

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 14:54

Kinect bundled with the Xbox and being required to plug in? - Great! I've always toyed with the idea of getting a Kinect but never got round to it. Having it with the new xbox means devs can integrate it more and actually make it worthwhile to have. Yes having it plugged in as a requirement is a pain but get over it. As yet we don't know why thats required or what they intend to use it for other than the obvious so any comments really are uneccesary until we at least know more.


Having it included with the system doesn't really changed the fact that flailing your arms around like a fool has no practical use outside of things like just dance and kinect sports.

You've never been able to play the game from a CD/DVD in the PC, you've always had to install it, so the comparison is silly.


Actually i'm pretty sure i remember playing The Ultimate Doom straight from the CD many many years ago.

#133 theyarecomingforyou

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 14:57

When I used to be a PC gamer (pre-steam's preloader) I would have to INSTALL the game before I could play it. If i ran out of space on my HDD I would either uninstall a game or buy a new HDD. So everyone moaning about that is clearly nuts or under 20.

Installing onto the Xbox 360 & PS3 is optional and i presume a minority used it, but having it mandatory for the next Xbox isn't a deal breaker, it bares no impact on my gaming experience and entertainment. thats why i buy a console to get entertainment. If it loads quicker then its great. I can't see how this is a negative point at all.


At the moment (most) console games don't require any install. By making installs mandatory it means that users will have to manage storage space, particularly if the included storage is limited (I'd be surprised if Microsoft included more than 1TB of storage, which would only be enough for 20 installs at maximum size). I can easily see how that would be annoying for console gamers who haven't had to put up with that before.

#134 TheLegendOfMart

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 15:00

Actually i'm pretty sure i remember playing The Ultimate Doom straight from the CD many many years ago.

Games that originally came on floppies yes.

#135 spacer

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 15:11

I can't see what any of the issues are.

When I used to be a PC gamer (pre-steam's preloader) I would have to INSTALL the game before I could play it. If i ran out of space on my HDD I would either uninstall a game or buy a new HDD. So everyone moaning about that is clearly nuts or under 20.

Installing onto the Xbox 360 & PS3 is optional and i presume a minority used it, but having it mandatory for the next Xbox isn't a deal breaker, it bares no impact on my gaming experience and entertainment. thats why i buy a console to get entertainment. If it loads quicker then its great. I can't see how this is a negative point at all.


Consoles should have the ability to pop in a disc and play without any PC-like system set up. It seems the Nextbox will have something along these lines, but it still requires an install behind the scenes. Installing the game does have advantages, but with proprietary HDDs and limited space, install swapping is more than a fringe concern. And it something that should NOT even be in the picture. It's not a problem on PCs because people can get large, inexpensive HDDs from where ever they want. That is not the case with consoles.

Always on/connected - Not an issue, my pc/laptop is always connected to the internet when its turned on, and my 360 automatically connects to Xbox Live. Can't really see how thats an issue? As long as the DRM thats implemented isn't invasive in any way and detrements my gaming experience then I couldn't care less.


Your last sentence in that paragraph is the crux of the issue. Anyone who thinks the "always on, always online" is not DRM is fooling themselves. It is going to prevent used games and will most likely prevent offline play in order to stop piracy. (which of course won't work, and it will only affect legitimate customers as usual) As long as we can play our games offline when our internet decides not to work, then I'm fine with the always online "feature" too. However, this feature is still too vague so we will have to wait for specifics.

Kinect bundled with the Xbox and being required to plug in? - Great! I've always toyed with the idea of getting a Kinect but never got round to it. Having it with the new xbox means devs can integrate it more and actually make it worthwhile to have. Yes having it plugged in as a requirement is a pain but get over it. As yet we don't know why thats required or what they intend to use it for other than the obvious so any comments really are uneccesary until we at least know more.


Kinect is, and always will be, a gimmicky piece of hardware that no "true" gamer will want or need. Visual gestures and voice commands won't add any tangible value to typical games; and it will only ever be truly useful in dancing/exercise games. And it has already impacted those who don't want it because of the changes to the 360 dashboard. The nextbox requiring that it be plugged in is evidence that it's going to be a big part of the console's user experience which is not exciting for those of us who don't want it. Again, a feature like this should be optional.



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