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Posted

Advocates of an effort to help states collect taxes on Internet sales won a symbolic but important victory Friday as the Senate signaled solid bipartisan support for the proposal.

Senators voted 75-24 for a nonbinding measure that endorses giving states more power to collect existing sales taxes on purchases their residents make from out-of-state Internet companies.

Though the vote was merely a show of sentiment, the one-sided outcome showed that supporters of collecting the levies could prevail should the Senate consider binding legislation later this year.

A congressional battle over the issue has been simmering for years, pitting Internet companies against traditional retail stores.

Part of what is at stake is potential revenue for cash-starved state governments across the country. An estimated $20 billion in sales taxes go uncollected annually by out-of-state online merchants.

Supporters also argue that not collecting the levies is a competitive disadvantage for retail stores, which must collect local sales taxes.

One sponsor, Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill., said Internet sales taxes should be collected "so those local businesses will have a fighting chance."

Sens. Mike Enzi, R-Wyo., and Lamar Alexander, R-Tenn., were other chief sponsors.

Opponents said the plan would be unworkably complicated, would pressure states without sales taxes to adopt them and would encourage companies to move overseas, where they said sales taxes could not be enforced.

"It tramples on states' rights," said Sen. Kelly Ayotte, R-N.H.

Online businesses with less than $1 million in annual sales would be exempted from having to collect the levies.

In states with sales taxes, online buyers are currently supposed to pay a tax on their purchases but the requirement is seldom enforced.

Twenty-six Republicans voted to endorse collecting Internet sales taxes and 19 Republicans voted against it. Democrats backed the proposal, 49-5.

Friday's vote was on an amendment to the 2014 budget the Senate was debating.

[url="http://gma.yahoo.com/senate-shows-support-internet-sales-taxes-233011453.html"]source[/url]

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Posted

Goodbye American business.
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Posted

"Supporters also argue that not collecting the levies is a competitive disadvantage for retail stores, which must collect local sales taxes."

Most retail stores already don't have squat for a selection in them anyway.

Even at those local, retail stores, you almost have to go to their website, to find any choices!
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Posted

[quote name='cork1958' timestamp='1364001094' post='595593222']
"Supporters also argue that not collecting the levies is a competitive disadvantage for retail stores, which must collect local sales taxes."

Most retail stores already don't have squat for a selection in them anyway.

Even at those local, retail stores, you almost have to go to their website, to find any choices!
[/quote]

Maybe that is due to how much it costs retailers (brick and mortar) to carry inventory?

Online-only retailers (especially those with agreements with major distributors) can typically have the distributor drop-ship to the customer - Tech Data, for example, will do so for most items at no additional cost - to either retailer or customer.

Retail of the brick-and-mortar sort is very much fickle, and prone to customer whim. (I've done retail - and what I just said is the GOOD part of it.)

Online commerce is booming because it's tax-avoidance for everyman - which is exactly why the counties and states that levy it are howling.

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Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1364000550' post='595593214']
Goodbye American business.
[/quote]

Oh get over it! If you haven't noticed, the country is broke. And why should online retailers have an unfair advantage over brick-and-mortar stores? At this point, it's stupid. If anything, a level playing field would be good for "American business".
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Posted

How soon will this be implemented? I have like $2000 of stuff in my amazon shopping cart.

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Posted

^
[quote]
... Senate consider binding legislation later this year.

[/quote]

Won't take effect until 2014 at least.

Unless it becomes significantly cheaper (including taxes, and shipping cost) to buy at a local store, I will keep buying from on-line businesses.

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Posted

Screw counties. first they over inflated property taxes then when the housing market crashed, those people leaving were lost revenue. Here's the thing. Why are municipalities hurting? poor financial planning. California is a prime example of tax and spend. they raise some crazy tax in hopes of generating revenue within the state, then forget to realize that people are leaving California in droves because it is too darn expensive to live there. Face it, they use some wild math thinking california has X million people and multiply that by the rate of tax multiplied by what they hope to be the number of sales they hope places like amazon will bring in. then they'll misuse THAT to pay for the inflated pensions that the state union employees want for their retirements. But it won't be enough... people are broke and have no jobs... no... ridiculous tax to feed the misguided spending of our politicians

just an example

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Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1364000550' post='595593214']
Goodbye American business.
[/quote]

uh why? you are still going to buy stuff

online retailers have an unfair advantage over local shops, no tax, even though you are SUPOSE to pay the tax to your state (yes you still legally have to report an untaxed out of state purchase in state taxes)..

too many local stores shut down because they can't compete with no tax (not because it cost less, but too many people having a psychological impact that "oh im not paying that here ill buy there then")... heck states are losing that money too, hence why a lot of them are going broke, people paying less and less into sales tax

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Posted

[quote name='neufuse' timestamp='1364003905' post='595593264']
uh why? you are still going to buy stuff

online retailers have an unfair advantage over local shops, no tax, even though you are SUPOSE to pay the tax to your state (yes you still legally have to report an untaxed out of state purchase in state taxes)..

too many local stores shut down because they can't compete with no tax (not because it cost less, but too many people having a psychological impact that "oh im not paying that here ill buy there then")... heck states are losing that money too, hence why a lot of them are going broke, people paying less and less into sales tax
[/quote]

it isn't an unfair advantage it is just smart business. why isn't it? because these businesses should be ashamed of good business decisions for their business? Sounds alot like a certain president who says that businesses are mean ol' nasty codgers and they didn't build that.

truth is, why is this a problem that we must now tax online retail? the answer is, there was NEVER a problem and never was a tax nor was the issue ever brought up that memory serves from day 1 of the internet.. well maybe one time but it was quickly squashed. Point being; politicians and municipalities have mismanaged their funds for so long and are so greedy to fill the sucking void of poor stewardship that they are NOW wanting to kill even more businesses because they are complete ****heads. ok.. went back to reread the OP and the senate primarily Democrats with some GOP sponsors are pushing for this to "give local businesses a fighting chance." I call BS! The federal government has shackled businesses for so long about with business killing or anti business regulations that cost businesses too much to operate that, the big boys have the ability to leave the country and reap profits. Hell, Obama sent jeep to China after the election(remember that in the debate with Romney?)

proof: [url="http://www.redstate.com/andrewhyman/2012/11/02/chrysler-sends-jeep-manufacturing-to-china/"]http://www.redstate....uring-to-china/[/url] and: [url="http://washingtonexaminer.com/jeep-an-obama-favorite-looks-to-shift-production-to-china/article/2511703"]http://washingtonexa...article/2511703[/url]

aside from the lies we were told that it wasn't going to happen???? huh??? Jeep/Chrysler, which is part of Daimler chrysler, can now make fat profits on cheap China labor.

can anyone refute this? no- thank you be sure to tip your waiteress
[media]http://youtu.be/4j8m8L8B7pM[/media] referring to the be sure to tip your waitress

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[quote name='ChrisJ1968' timestamp='1364004999' post='595593288']
it isn't an unfair advantage it is just smart business. why isn't it? because these businesses should be ashamed of good business decisions for their business? Sounds alot like a certain president who says that businesses are mean ol' nasty codgers and they didn't build that.

truth is, why is this a problem that we must now tax online retail? the answer is, there was NEVER a problem and never was a tax nor was the issue ever brought up that memory serves from day 1 of the internet.. well maybe one time but it was quickly squashed. Point being; politicians and municipalities have mismanaged their funds for so long and are so greedy to fill the sucking void of poor stewardship that they are NOW wanting to kill even more businesses because they are complete ****heads. ok.. went back to reread the OP and the senate primarily Democrats with some GOP sponsors are pushing for this to "give local businesses a fighting chance." I call BS! The federal government has shackled businesses for so long about with business killing or anti business regulations that cost businesses too much to operate that, the big boys have the ability to leave the country and reap profits. Hell, Obama sent jeep to China after the election(remember that in the debate with Romney?)

proof: [url="http://www.redstate.com/andrewhyman/2012/11/02/chrysler-sends-jeep-manufacturing-to-china/"]http://www.redstate....uring-to-china/[/url] and: [url="http://washingtonexaminer.com/jeep-an-obama-favorite-looks-to-shift-production-to-china/article/2511703"]http://washingtonexa...article/2511703[/url]

aside from the lies we were told that it wasn't going to happen???? huh??? Jeep/Chrysler, which is part of Daimler chrysler, can now make fat profits on cheap China labor.

can anyone refute this? no- thank you be sure to tip your waiteress
[media]http://youtu.be/4j8m8L8B7pM[/media] referring to the be sure to tip your waitress
[/quote]

no, there was always a problem, and there has been issues with this since online commerce started.... states constantly brought it up and they they always came back with "well you still have to pay a tax anyways when it enters the state".... that's been in existence forever! if I was to go to a state that has no sales tax, buy a car, bring it back to Pennsylvania, I have to legally pay Pennsylvania sales tax on it because it was an out of state purchase "use taxes" have been around forever.... somehow everyone thinks we don't need to pay tax on the internet, when really everyone is breaking tax law by not paying it and not reporting it on state taxes..... states are finally starting to realize this is a problem and that people won't tell the truth and report out of state purchases in the use tax section of state taxes...

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Posted

This is simply a "redistribution of wealth is all." Take from online business and give it to smaller less fortunate business? in my school research, redistribution of wealth is a facet or item of the communist manifesto by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. written in the 1800's. Karl marx hated with impunity, the free market(because he was a lazy ****head and wouldn't even try to get a job) Marx was Indolent. But he proposed redistributing wealth to supposedly to help poor people. Karl actually lived off of Friedrich Engels dads money that he would give to Engels. Not oncedid Marx have a single job in his life even when he married the German Aristocrats daughter, she lived with him in squallier. anyway... (Friedrich Engels dad was a manufacturing Magnate in Germany) but that didn't bother Marx did it?

the bank bailouts were NO different. take the wealth from the people since it was the peoples money(they will have to repay it in their taxes) but the wealth went to these supposed "too BIG to fail!" banks.

the government figured out a way to kill businesses with a new tax(hey, it will come out of the money brought in), and go to REALLY either the federal government or states. but it will NOT ...EVER... make it to the small business the bill supposedly says it will help.

Jordan fades... Swoosh! that's the game!

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Posted

[quote name='neufuse' timestamp='1364005725' post='595593304']
somehow everyone thinks we don't need to pay tax on the internet, when really everyone is breaking tax law by not paying it and not reporting it on state taxes..... states are finally starting to realize this is a problem and that people won't tell the truth and report out of state purchases in the use tax section of state taxes...[/quote]
Mostly because it's practically impossible to figure out how much "use tax" you're supposed to pay at the end of the year anyway. First of all, who keeps track of every purchase they make? Of those who do keep track, do you keep track of what each ITEM is? The sales tax laws are all over the board. In Minnesota, for example, there's no sales tax on clothing. No sales tax on food. But prepared food is taxed, as are some things that are food but not classified as food by the state. In addition, taxes vary based on location. If there were only 50 sales tax laws, great, but there's not. How are you supposed to figure out what you really owe? It's ridiculous.

Regardless, the Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that it's illegal for a state to require a company to collect sales tax unless they have a physical presence. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

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Posted

Personally I will buy less if it's taxed.
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Posted

People aren't paying the tax they're legally obligated to, which is wrong. It's also unfair to bricks and mortar retailers (which have to pay tax) and states (which are struggling to provides essential services). It's amazing that the current situation has been allowed to carry on as long as it has but it highlights the complexities and contradictions involved in the relationship between states and the federal government.

Nobody wants to pay more tax than they have to but right now the financial situation in a lot of states is dire and that's in part due to businesses and individuals exploiting current tax law.

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[quote name='theyarecomingforyou' timestamp='1364052751' post='595593830']
People aren't paying the tax they're legally obligated to, which is wrong. It's also unfair to bricks and mortar retailers (which have to pay tax) and states (which are struggling to provides essential services). It's amazing that the current situation has been allowed to carry on as long as it has but it highlights the complexities and contradictions involved in the relationship between states and the federal government.[/quote]
But what's the purpose of sales tax? It's to support LOCAL services and infrastructure. Why should a company out of state have to collect taxes for the local government, when they get no benefits from the local services and infrastructure? Amazon, for example, gets no benefit from local fire protection, local police protection, roads, etc. And they pay FedEx/UPS to deliver their packages, who ARE paying local taxes in the local areas. That's the reason out of state companies have never had to collect taxes.

Plus, it's a BS argument to say that it's not fair to brick and mortar retailers -- they have advantages that you can't get online, such as individualized service, the ability to touch/hold, the ability to get the product instantly, etc, etc. Plus, online retailers have to pay shipping (or consumers have to pay shipping), something you don't pay at a B&M. Yes, Amazon subsidizes that with Prime, but it's still an extra cost, and one could argue that isn't "fair" to online retailers.
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Posted

Nice ... that is another way to encourage people to spend more to stimulate the economics ... oh wait ...
I thought the Govt should try to fix the economics, not to fuk it up more.

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Posted

How can the US tax the WORLD WIDE WEB ???
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Posted

So our money hungry government is for a tax raising scheme? Who would you thunk it?

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[quote]An estimated $20 billion in sales taxes go uncollected annually by out-of-state online merchants.[/quote]

And yet far, [b]far[/b] more than that goes uncollected from the rich people and big companies exploiting loopholes to get out of paying taxes. But i guess not paying a tax is only a problem if it's the normal people.
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[quote name='Blackhearted' timestamp='1364098108' post='595594718']
And yet far, [b]far[/b] more than that goes uncollected from the rich people and big companies exploiting loopholes to get out of paying taxes.
[/quote]

Exactly, but it's okay because those rich folks paid off the government for that privilege.

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[quote name='Fezmid' timestamp='1364096945' post='595594688']
But what's the purpose of sales tax? It's to support LOCAL services and infrastructure. Why should a company out of state have to collect taxes for the local government, when they get no benefits from the local services and infrastructure? Amazon, for example, gets no benefit from local fire protection, local police protection, roads, etc. And they pay FedEx/UPS to deliver their packages, who ARE paying local taxes in the local areas. That's the reason out of state companies have never had to collect taxes.[/quote]

Taxes have to be collected to provide essential services - whether it's at the state or federal level is irrelevant. It makes sense that purchases made by residents of a state are taxed in that state.

I've never understood why Americans are so opposed to taxes. It's bizarre.

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[quote name='theyarecomingforyou' timestamp='1364111114' post='595594846']
Taxes have to be collected to provide essential services - whether it's at the state or federal level is irrelevant. It makes sense that purchases made by residents of a state are taxed in that state.

I've never understood why Americans are so opposed to taxes. It's bizarre.
[/quote]
We're not opposed to paying taxes in general, we're just weary of the government and opposed to taxes that are nothing more than a money grab by the government. Like in this case.

Like I said, the point of a sales tax is for LOCAL infrastructure support. So why should a company pay all that money to collect taxes for a government that doesn't actually do anything for them? For example, many areas charge extra sales tax as a way to help pay for a local stadium. Why should Amazon have to pay to keep track of the hundreds (or thousands) of different sales tax laws in order to help pay for a stadium or the roads around the stadium? It doesn't make sense. And if you say it's unfair that online retailers don't have to collect sales tax, wouldn't the opposite be true too? It's unfair that online retailers have to keep track of EVERY different sales tax in the country, where the brick and mortar only has to keep track of a single sales tax.

If you want an idea of how confusing it is, check out the Wikipedia page and look at all of the exceptions, differences, etc, all over the place:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_the_United_States

And maybe you missed the point where the Supreme Court of the United States ruled it unconstitutional for states to require businesses outside of the state to collect taxes. That'd be another reason we're opposed to it - because it's (currently) illegal. ;)
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[quote name='Fezmid' timestamp='1364131016' post='595595038']We're not opposed to paying taxes in general, we're just weary of the government and opposed to taxes that are nothing more than a money grab by the government. Like in this case.[/quote]

States are struggling to provide essential services yet collecting taxes is just a "money grab"? I don't follow the logic.

[quote name='Fezmid' timestamp='1364131016' post='595595038']Like I said, the point of a sales tax is for LOCAL infrastructure support. So why should a company pay all that money to collect taxes for a government that doesn't actually do anything for them?[/quote]

The money is coming from the resident of a state to pay for services that they use. It's really simple.

[quote name='Fezmid' timestamp='1364131016' post='595595038']For example, many areas charge extra sales tax as a way to help pay for a local stadium. Why should Amazon have to pay to keep track of the hundreds (or thousands) of different sales tax laws in order to help pay for a stadium or the roads around the stadium?[/quote]

Because the stadium isn't for Amazon - it's for the residents of the state. It's not Amazon paying the tax, it's the consumer; Amazon simply collects the tax revenue and delivers it to the appropriate department.

[quote name='Fezmid' timestamp='1364131016' post='595595038']And if you say it's unfair that online retailers don't have to collect sales tax, wouldn't the opposite be true too? It's unfair that online retailers have to keep track of EVERY different sales tax in the country, where the brick and mortar only has to keep track of a single sales tax.[/quote]

The system should be fair, so they should both pay state and/or federal taxes.

[quote name='Fezmid' timestamp='1364131016' post='595595038']And maybe you missed the point where the Supreme Court of the United States ruled it unconstitutional for states to require businesses outside of the state to collect taxes. That'd be another reason we're opposed to it - because it's (currently) illegal. ;)
[/quote]

The US Constitution is constantly ignored or redefined, so that alone is not a defence. The real issue is whether it is appropriate and beneficial for society and given how states are struggling to provide the services that people demand it's clear that something needs to be done. If the US Constitution isn't serving the best interests of US citizens then it should be amended so that it is, just like it has been many times before.

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Posted

Mabye if they didn't give the billionaires such huge tax breaks then they would have more money to spend on state services instead of trying to collect more from people that can barely afford to make ends meet.
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