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Yuhong Bao

Restore Start menu but limit it to Pro edition

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We're transitioning out of that era.

show me one way that we're actually transitioning out of that era ON THE DESKTOP.

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show me one way that we're actually transitioning out of that era ON THE DESKTOP.

Uptake in touch, motion, and natural input methods for one. Research into new input methods for another. The push towards device and service unification. The list goes on...

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show me one way that we're actually transitioning out of that era ON THE DESKTOP.

This

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Uptake in touch, motion, and natural input methods for one. Research into new input methods for another. The push towards device and service unification. The list goes on...

I said on the desktop.

Microsoft's lazy attempt to put touch on the desktop where it for 99.99999% of all computers it'll still have to use a mouse isn't going to count.

there is no moves towards motion on the desktop

I've seen nothing for (new)"natural" input methods. read upthread for my thoughts on "natural" input methods.

device and service unification.. again sounds like we're talking about a tablet or smart phone.

you can't give one single example of what's happening on the DESKTOP that would making catering to "natural" inputs necessary. if Microsoft even wanted to move towards natural input methods it should have started with voice. not some half-ass touch screen interface.

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Uptake in touch, motion, and natural input methods for one. Research into new input methods for another. The push towards device and service unification. The list goes on...

Go to best buy and try to sell that to customers over the next 5 years let me know how people react to device and service unification when they are looking for a laptop or desktop

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I said on the desktop.

Microsoft's lazy attempt to put touch on the desktop where it for 99.99999% of all computers it'll still have to use a mouse isn't going to count.

there is no moves towards motion on the desktop

I've seen nothing for (new)"natural" input methods. read upthread for my thoughts on "natural" input methods.

device and service unification.. again sounds like we're talking about a tablet or smart phone.

you can't give one single example of what's happening on the DESKTOP that would making catering to "natural" inputs necessary. if Microsoft even wanted to move towards natural input methods it should have started with voice. not some half-ass touch screen interface.

Maybe you are just getting to old to play around with pc's. All you do is complain. Why is it so horrible to get more input choices?

I can't wait to buy a new laptop with touch screen.

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I said on the desktop.

Microsoft's lazy attempt to put touch on the desktop where it for 99.99999% of all computers it'll still have to use a mouse isn't going to count.

there is no moves towards motion on the desktop

I've seen nothing for (new)"natural" input methods. read upthread for my thoughts on "natural" input methods.

device and service unification.. again sounds like we're talking about a tablet or smart phone.

you can't give one single example of what's happening on the DESKTOP that would making catering to "natural" inputs necessary. if Microsoft even wanted to move towards natural input methods it should have started with voice. not some half-ass touch screen interface.

Lazy would have been trying the same thing over and expecting different results. XP failed with touch, Vista failed with touch, and 7 failed with touch. Metro is the first solid foundation for creating a touch friendly productive OS. Windows Blue is building off that with much requested and needed features.

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Listen, quit putting word in my mouth. The keyboard will always remain. But the computer is evolving beyond point and click. In the grand scheme of things, pointing and clicking is quite a goofy input method, when there are better suited alternatives. My finger and hands can click buttons, swipe sides, and clear away apps, my pen can draw, and my keyboard can type. I don't need a mouse for anything anymore, really.

You were probably referring to the email you got with my original post. Since then you will see I removed the word keyboard. I still don't see touch being practical while sitting at a workstation 12 hours 8 hours a day.

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so we're going to switch out the keyboard and mouse for

keyboard, finger, and pen smudging up your screen.

you can keep it.

Finger smudges have yet to keep consumers away from buying touch devices...

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Finger smudges have yet to keep consumers away from buying touch devices...

it has for me. I only buy phones with real buttons on them. touch screens are such a pain.

Maybe you are just getting to old to play around with pc's. All you do is complain. Why is it so horrible to get more input choices?

I can't wait to buy a new laptop with touch screen.

laptop != desktop

i'm happy to play around with new tech... but i'm also happy to complain and bitch when an "upgrade" thoroughly ruins a user experience that had finally gotten to damn near perfect in it's previous incarnation. I'm just happy that this is probably going to be all in the hands of corporate buyers whom are probably avoiding windows 8 like the plague.

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Listen, quit putting word in my mouth.

Pot>kettle>black

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Right. Because I want to be cramped into a tiny ass menu populated with tiny 32x32 and 16x16 icons, while running Windows on my 3840x2400 screen...

Well obviously spreading garbage across the screen for the sake of "change" isn't working out too well for microsoft, with a lower adoption rate than even Vista it has tanked horribly, a total, complete failure of an operating system.

http://www.zdnet.com/five-reasons-why-windows-8-has-failed-7000012104/

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Well obviously spreading garbage across the screen for the sake of "change" isn't working out too well for microsoft, with a lower adoption rate than even Vista it has tanked horribly, a total, complete failure of an operating system.

http://www.zdnet.com...led-7000012104/

using SVJN as a reference for anything MS is just silly.

The man hates MS with a passion, and will say anything to discredit them.

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using SVJN as a reference for anything MS is just silly.

The man hates MS with a passion, and will say anything to discredit them.

The damage is done though. This is not the only place to read an article about how horrible Windows 8 is. If Microsoft would have just added a couple of simple options for regular desktop users, none of this bad press would happen (well okay some would still exist, but the situation would not be as horrible as it is right now). I already hear friends and people talk about how they were going to give Windows 8 a try but read it was horrible. It is Vista all over again. How did Microsoft not see this coming with such a major change? How did they not feel the need to include at least two simple check boxes for desktop users?

MS SHOULD have provided options on install / first set up or at least released just a standard desktop version. And no, before Dot comes in here saying 23 new SKUS?!? I am just saying ONE....ONE more version JUST for desktop

Windows 8

Windows 8 Pro

Windows 8 Desktop.

I read a post from Dot a couple of weeks ago where somebody made the same comment. He said that would be suicide for Microsoft because it would result in about 13 SKUs.....how does providing a desktop only sku result in an additional 10 SKUs?

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MS SHOULD have provided options on install / first set up or at least released just a standard desktop version. And no, before Dot comes in here saying 23 new SKUS?!? I am just saying ONE....ONE more version JUST for desktop

Windows 8

Windows 8 Pro

Windows 8 Desktop.

I read a post from Dot a couple of weeks ago where somebody made the same comment. He said that would be suicide for Microsoft because it would result in about 13 SKUs.....how does providing a desktop only sku result in an additional 10 SKUs?

Dot Matrix returning to this thread to tell us how wrong you are, to remind us the start menu is never coming back, that touch is the future and how awesome windows 8 is in 3..........2..............1 :D

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Dot Matrix returning to this thread to tell us how wrong you are, to remind us the start menu is never coming back, that touch is the future and how awesome windows 8 is in 3..........2..............1 :D

Why is it that xWhiplash can repeat the same thing over and over, but you feel the need to call somebody else out on it?

Is it simply because you share his opinion?

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Why is it that xWhiplash can repeat the same thing over and over, but you feel the need to call somebody else out on it?

Is it simply because you share his opinion?

Because xWhiplash doesn't come across sounding like he's working for Microsoft? I mean just look at Dots Avatar, it's hard for someone to come across as bias to a windows 8 discussion when they have the windows 8 logo as their avatar. :D

It would be like me talking about how awesome a new Metroid game is and how anyone who dislikes it doesn't like change. Yet judging by Samus (The Metroid game main character) in my signature I might not come across as very bias on the subject.

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I insist that voting ban should be allowed... at least a temporal ban, that would be awesome :D

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The damage is done though. This is not the only place to read an article about how horrible Windows 8 is. If Microsoft would have just added a couple of simple options for regular desktop users, none of this bad press would happen (well okay some would still exist, but the situation would not be as horrible as it is right now). I already hear friends and people talk about how they were going to give Windows 8 a try but read it was horrible. It is Vista all over again. How did Microsoft not see this coming with such a major change? How did they not feel the need to include at least two simple check boxes for desktop users?

MS SHOULD have provided options on install / first set up or at least released just a standard desktop version. And no, before Dot comes in here saying 23 new SKUS?!? I am just saying ONE....ONE more version JUST for desktop

Windows 8

Windows 8 Pro

Windows 8 Desktop.

I read a post from Dot a couple of weeks ago where somebody made the same comment. He said that would be suicide for Microsoft because it would result in about 13 SKUs.....how does providing a desktop only sku result in an additional 10 SKUs?

For every main version, there are two other editions (N and KN) that Microsoft would need to support. That's 3 SKUs, on top of the other 9 Windows 8 SKUs, Microsoft would need to throw money away on, sporting a UX Microsoft has no long terms plans in supporting, which would go away again in Windows 9. It's like asking Ford to support the Model-T because some senior citizen doesn't want a modern computerized vehicle.

Your plan further falls apart when you consider the desktop is still included in Windows 8. It hasn't gone anywhere. Click the desktop tile, and enjoy.

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Sigh. I have never seen Windows 8 N Windows 8 KN at the stores. Have you?

When I go to Office Depot, I see just Windows 8. That is it. No Windows 8 N and Windows 8 KN.

When you go to the MS Online Store, what do you see? Not 2,000 SKUS. I only see Windows 8 and Windows 8 pro. Not N....KN...and all the others.

Fine, then they should give us a MS approved start menu and some check boxes as an add on at least. I do not care if that add on is $50, I prefer to use MS built and approved tools than resorting to third part OS tweaks / hacks.

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Better get used to it. :devil:

why would I want to punish myself everyday.

Are you secretly the alter ego of Chris Pirillo (that annoying little guy making videos about Win8) on Neowin.

He likes to refer to the Win 8 UI as user hostile.

windows 8 ui is user hostile

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Just musing here, but I wonder what the correlation is between the amount of people who are resistant to adopting the new Start Screen to people who are resistant to adopting UAC and keep UAC disabled.

As for Windows N and KN versions, you'll never see those offered in the United States. They are custom, sometimes stripped-down editions offered in some overseas markets. It's a little similar to back in the days of Windows 95 there was an edition of Windows called Windows 95 OSR2. You couldn't buy it in any store as it only shipped on OEM PCs, which was a shame because that was the edition everyone wanted. Microsoft doesn't always make every edition of every OS available to every distribution channel.

I can respect the view of someone only wanting to use MS built and approved tools. It's akin to a lot of people only using WHQL-certified drivers. However, sometimes a company won't give you that tool you want or that WHQL-certified driver you need and that's when you need to start thinking about widening the search. At the end of the day all that's important is that you are enjoying your computing experience & sometimes that means using freeware/shareware apps that come from unexpected sources.

I don't think arguing for or against the Start Screen is going to do anyone any good. Even if you took your arguments directly to Redmond and debated them in front of the Windows design team I don't think it'd do any good. Microsoft has proven time and time again they are going to do what they are going to do no matter anyone's opinion.

If you enjoy the Start Screen, then enjoy it. You got lucky this time because let's face it. Microsoft is fickle with their designs. What appeals to one person one day doesn't mean the next design is going to have equal appeal. If you don't enjoy the Start Screen, well...you got the short straw this time. Maybe Microsoft's fickle nature will favor you next go-around. In the meantime, it's your job to make lemonade out of lemons. Whether it's bolting a third-party program or two onto Windows 8 or dropping back to Windows 7 for a bit, at least you have options.

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they don't have to check in on us individually. but collectively they do go out of business. Windows 8 has been the single biggest opening for Linux or Mac to get in and grab market share since Window ME.. Their are two big things that keep people on windows, GAMES and Productivity Apps(photoshop, office). Just ask E.A. where they are starting to shift their gaming bets on. More and more games will be programmed to OpenGL just to keep porting costs between windows and Linux low.. and the only thing about great about Microsoft's office software is it's interconnectivity and exchange services. I'm sure Linux can handle that stuff.

It's going to get harder for Microsoft to compete with free.

Uh so Vista was not the biggest opening for Mac and Linux? I surely remember someone here saying just that. The trust is Linux/Mac are biggest failures as desktop OS when compared to Windows (and soon Windows 8).

Deal. With. It.

Because xWhiplash doesn't come across sounding like he's working for Microsoft? I mean just look at Dots Avatar, it's hard for someone to come across as bias to a windows 8 discussion when they have the windows 8 logo as their avatar. :D

It would be like me talking about how awesome a new Metroid game is and how anyone who dislikes it doesn't like change. Yet judging by Samus (The Metroid game main character) in my signature I might not come across as very bias on the subject.

You must be working for the BBC then...

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Your plan further falls apart when you consider the desktop is still included in Windows 8. It hasn't gone anywhere. Click the desktop tile, and enjoy.

its not the same old desktop, it has been bastardized, you click on various icons and you have giant metro prompts jumping out. In stock windows 8, you can't even use desktop normally, when you want to open a app you have to flip-flop between desktop and that horrible hostile metro ui.

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Why is it that xWhiplash can repeat the same thing over and over, but you feel the need to call somebody else out on it?

Is it simply because you share his opinion?

Maybe because what I say is an objective and useful conversation? Not simply "MS is so awesome it is you that is the problem" or "just deal with it" as others have put it.

I mean what I say is the truth. You cannot deny that MANY MANY people would be happy if MS would have provided such options. Most of the bad press would go away as well. If it is only the techies that want it back, fine but MS should have provided options.

If nobody says anything, what kind of world is that? We have the right as consumers to voice our opinions.

Why do people protest? Would you tell them the same thing? "Just deal with it"? Why do we have any sort of product reviews? Companies do make bad decisions you know - and if we just sit here with our mouths shut MS would not do anything. My whole point is companies are not immune to mistakes.

Oh and BTW, I did not make this topic, so why don't you complain about that instead of me for participating in a start menu discussion.

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