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Restore Start menu but limit it to Pro edition


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#46 Nick H.

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:44

This is a common refrain, but why is it the case? I mean, some people simply prefer having the start menu. Have a preference is different than not adapting to change. We all have own our tastes, don't we?

Thank you! I'm tired of hearing this idea. I prefer the start menu and apparently that makes me a dinosaur, but you don't see me calling people pre-schoolers for preferring the start screen. It's just a preference.


#47 xWhiplash

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:37

It wouldn't work. First and foremost because there are free start menu replacements out there that work on all versions of Windows 8, so Microsoft including a start menu only in the Pro version wouldn't be an incentive for people to pay.


Businesses that do not want to retrain people and use third party OS tweaks.

Why didn't they at least include such options in the enterprise edition?

#48 Dot Matrix

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 14:13

Businesses that do not want to retrain people and use third party OS tweaks.

Why didn't they at least include such options in the enterprise edition?


Because sooner or later businesses *have* to pay training costs. It's unavoidable. Windows 8 (even Windows 9) will be on the market for quite some time before the majority of businesses upgrade, many people will learn on their own how to use the OS, mitigating some of the costs.

#49 Dashel

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 14:49

It is BS because, as someone who's actually used the OS...blah blah blah

Also there's no way you'll ever convince me the smallish window that was old start menu that after WinXP couldn't expand to make viewing nested folders easier, is better than one that fully uses the available screen space. At 1080p (which my main monitor runs at) a full screen start menu IMO is makes it a lot easier to find things in the list, on the off chance I don't have it pinned somewhere or don't use the search function.


If you still don't get its not about you or even, again, why they find it jarring, you are just being obtuse. Its not about I can hit button A to do action B, its much more subtle than that. Take off your gloves and find some empathy. How is it virtually every reviewer has noticed it but you have not? Maybe that is the BS you should focus on.

We get it, you won't be convinced people prefer different things and their choice doesn't impede your progress. Please, explain how SS makes finding listed items (ie All Programs) easier, because that does dumbfound me. Annihilating nested folders isn't expanding to make their view and nav easier.

The intent of the start screen is to phase out older devices that still rely on screen resolutions of less then 1024*768. Most users now use a screen size of 1366*768. on most systems the small menu wasn't using the space of a full screen so it was in fact leaving a dead space. Lets use windows 95 as an example it was the first computer system to use the start menu as time went on it improved and changed to adapt with what was currently needed over time it improved and changed at the same-time that very code was being left unchanged and used for exploits and virus's. Microsoft design choice was to change to it from the ground up rather then keeping it the old code. Instead choose to Clean up older code by removing it which is key to improving any product and closing any bugs or holes that could be used as zero day exploits or for virus's


WTFGibberishBSIsThis?!? Are we back to just throwing anything we want at the page to see what sticks? Dead space? Start Menu viruses? I'm praying to Jesus English isn't your first language.

#50 PGHammer

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 14:53

Because sooner or later businesses *have* to pay training costs. It's unavoidable. Windows 8 (even Windows 9) will be on the market for quite some time before the majority of businesses upgrade, many people will learn on their own how to use the OS, mitigating some of the costs.


What strikes me as laughable (though the point for once is valid) is that training costs in businesses and enterprises are a BIG reason not to change out an operating system - the reason why it strikes me as laughable NOW is that originally heard it coming from businesses running NT4WS that didn't want to upgrade to Windows 2000 Professional.

Fellow Neowinians, I was in an enterprise (specifically, a broadband-support call center for Big Cable Company) that DID such a changeover; the changeover was the entirety of the eastern US' operations. Every single desktop. (The servers were involved as well - they would upgrade to Windows 2000 Server once all the desktops got upgraded.) Despite the alarums from the IT types, the biggest issues were, in fact, applications - not training. Why? We, as users, pretty much helped each other through the rough patches (the biggest *rough patch* for users was printing - however, once users figured out how to use print-queue browsing to select un-backlogged network printers, it actually got EASIER than NT4WS did). Why would users not help each other through a 7->8 upgrade? Are you implying that users are, in fact, MORE selfish today?

For the average user, the difference is that the Start menu is missing - period. In terms of how to maneuver around the OS, there is NO other difference. How many users - even those still using Windows 7 - center all their operations around the Start menu? Now, if you are a user that does, in fact, center most of how you get to things around the Start menu, its excision is going to be massive. (That is something that I have pointed out going back to the Developer Preview.)

However, other than that, nothing really changed from a user-operations POV between 7 and 8. The Superbar is still there. Taskbar pinning is still there. (In fact, both have gained additional teeth due to applications that launch on startup now appearing on the Taskbar, in addition to the TaskTray - this was not in Windows 7.)

What I am seeing is those that miss the Start menu deliberately calling attention to it - in hopes of staving off a final demise when support for Windows 7 goes away in 202x.

#51 Dashel

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 15:02

Ramble Ramble Ramble

In terms of how to maneuver around the OS, there is NO other difference. How many users - even those still using Windows 7 - center all their operations around the Start menu? Now, if you are a user that does, in fact, center most of how you get to things around the Start menu, its excision is going to be massive.

However, other than that, nothing really changed from a user-operations POV between 7 and 8.


First, it absolutely changes how they maneuver, isn't that what this is all about? Change for the better, change for the future? It changes workflow the first time they open almost anything and changes navigation to find their way back. If you can't see the many pitfalls that are already hitting the help desk, you're blind.

Your other statement was spot on, I'm just not sure how you sweep a mammoth like that under the rug. If you heavily used the Start Menu, you will feel it more than most should not be a point of argument.

#52 Crimson Rain

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 15:08

Deal with it.

#53 +MikeChipshop

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 15:17

Why is this even an issue, as with all versions of Windows before it, 8 has this thing called '3rd Party Software'. There are plenty of programs to make Windows how you want it, use them.

#54 Arceles

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 15:42

I only go to windows 8 for playing games... windows 7 on the other hand, WORK.

#55 shozilla

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 16:18

they did ti with win 3.11 to 95, u didnt have a start menu back then and then wulla u have it, people were furious about it and didnt like it


It wasn't about start menu that time.. It was about people who hates changes like Microsoft moved stuff around/changed UI. Which is why, people can't find something they look for. Hence, they HATE it.

I don't care if Microsoft add/remove the features or change the looks in UI.

Car factories do the same thing to their cars as well.. For example, they moved windshield switch from left side to the right side of the steering wheel. They changed the button types on their radio/AC unit ... Now, newer cars have touchscreen on their dash. I know some friends who do not like computer based cars... they want old fashion cars that have no computer crap in it. A few of them that have new cars for daily use and use old cars for fun.

You notice something at grocery store (other stores as well) that they move stuff around... how you feel about that?

That's the way we do is make some changes for better... no matter if you like it or not. How you feel if you make changes to your app for your users and users do not like it? It is about company wins their customers back based on the changes or new features. If the users do not like it, they can move on to new product that made by other company. For example, you moved from Apple to Android for a new phone since Apple has not changed a bit in homescreen UI.

#56 Nick H.

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 16:27

I only go to windows 8 for playing games... windows 7 on the other hand, WORK.

Some would say that sums up the differences in the operating systems quite nicely. :laugh:

#57 McKay

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 16:30

Some would say that sums up the differences in the operating systems quite nicely. :laugh:


Windows 7 has no games. :rofl:

#58 +warwagon

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 17:04

Car factories do the same thing to their cars as well.. For example, they moved windshield switch from left side to the right side of the steering wheel. They changed the button types on their radio/AC unit ... Now, newer cars have touchscreen on their dash. I know some friends who do not like computer based cars... they want old fashion cars that have no computer crap in it. A few of them that have new cars for daily use and use old cars for fun.

You notice something at grocery store (other stores as well) that they move stuff around... how you feel about that?


Cars move the windshield switch, they don't hide it until the user waves their hand or stick their finger in the corner of the car to make it reappear.

Grocery stores move food around all the time, that's true. What they don't do is hide the entire aisle and make you find the nearest corner to stand in, or use a keyboard on your shopping cart to do a key combo to make the aisle reappear.

#59 shozilla

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 17:40

Yes, but cars move the windshield switch, they don't hide it until the user has to wave their hand or stick their finger in the corner of the car to make it reappear.

Grocery stores move food around all the time, that's true. What they don't do is hide the entire aisle and make you find the nearest corner to stand in, or use a keyboard on your shopping cart to do a key combo to make the aisle reappear.


Dude, I was talking about make changes for better... I did not say hide stuff... where did I say hide?

#60 +warwagon

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 17:43

Dude, I was talking about make changes for better... I did not say hide stuff... where did I say hide?


I just re-read your post. Now i'm thinking you are anti win8, though i'm still not entirely sure.