Teachers who stomped American flag, Jesus, are gone

[adrynalyne]

When did this become about tolerance?

Afaik neither of those teachers were saying YES GO HATE ON JESUS AND AMERICA, THEY SHOULD ALL BURN IN HELL.

Instead they were trying to show that in-animate things aren't really deserving of any respect. You shouldn't worship a flag or a piece of paper with Jesus written on it because well you're worshiping nothing. You should instead like the idea that the flag symbolizes or the good that Jesus did (if he existed or not is a discussion for another topic) and praise THAT, not some in-animate object that was made by minimum wage workers in China.

Clearly you skimmed the thread where people were saying that the offenses should be allowed because it is freedom of speech, regardless that it is considered offensive and intolerant of certain religions and beliefs. You also missed where it was stated that one devoutly religious individual was punished for protesting the 'Jesus' stomping.

This is and always will be about tolerance of views different from your own. You don't have to believe them, but show a little respect.

Oh really? You didn't?

That to me says "Until America starts doing this, I'm not allowed to compare them"

:rolleyes:

I thought you left this thread?

[FloatingFatMan]

When did this become about tolerance?

Afaik neither of those teachers were saying YES GO HATE ON JESUS AND AMERICA, THEY SHOULD ALL BURN IN HELL.

Instead they were trying to show that in-animate things aren't really deserving of any respect. You shouldn't worship a flag or a piece of paper with Jesus written on it because well you're worshiping nothing. You should instead like the idea that the flag symbolizes or the good that Jesus did (if he existed or not is a discussion for another topic) and praise THAT, not some in-animate object that was made by minimum wage workers in China.

The lesson is essentially a repeat of one found in the old testament. I'm sure people remember it. Here's a clue.

[44MLX]

Why? Since when do theists respect those that believe differently, such as atheists?

I respect a person, presuming they respect me. I do not respect that persons beliefs.

I am an atheist I might not agree with America or Religion but I do respect the fact that people follow religion or the flag.

[FloatingFatMan]

I am an atheist I might not agree with America or Religion but I do respect the fact that people follow religion or the flag.

I respect that people FOLLOW it, but I don't respect what they actually follow. If I did, I wouldn't BE an atheist. It's all just complete nonsense to me, and I don't know anyone who respects nonsense.

[Athernar]

The best part about this is you know the so called "patriots" in this thread would be jumping up and down about freedom of speech if that paper said Obama instead of Jesus.

[adrynalyne]

Lets look at this from another perspective.

If I was in a classroom and someone put my mother's name on a piece of paper and invited everyone to stomp on it, I would be busting some skulls. It is disrespectful no matter what.

I respect that people FOLLOW it, but I don't respect what they actually follow. If I did, I wouldn't BE an atheist. It's all just complete nonsense to me, and I don't know anyone who respects nonsense.

That seems fair to me. Respect people's beliefs, but don't follow or believe in them.

[FloatingFatMan]

Lets look at this from another perspective.

If I was in a classroom and someone put my mother's name on a piece of paper and invited everyone to stomp on it, I would be busting some skulls. It is disrespectful no matter what.

Why? They don't know your mother, or anything about her. It's just a name shared by millions of other people and has no significance unless YOU CHOOSE to apply significance to it.

You cannot GIVE offence, you can only TAKE it.

[shakey]

Seems a lot of you confuse the meaning of the word "Respect", and instead, use it in place of "tolerate" or "acknowledge".

I don't respect anyone because of their beliefs. I'll respect someone when they show they are good in nature and meaning. Respect isn't given for someone just thinking something. We will tolerate or acknowledge a belief or what a person will do, but respect is something far different.

[44MLX]

I respect that people FOLLOW it, but I don't respect what they actually follow. If I did, I wouldn't BE an atheist. It's all just complete nonsense to me, and I don't know anyone who respects nonsense.

At least you have respect for the people.

[adrynalyne]

Why? They don't know your mother, or anything about her. It's just a name shared by millions of other people and has no significance unless YOU CHOOSE to apply significance to it.

You cannot GIVE offence, you can only TAKE it.

The same reason why many people would be offended if I said their mother was a fat pig of a ######. If you offer offense, expect someone to take it. It is better to be tolerant and express your views on your own, instead of encouraging others to join in with you.

[FloatingFatMan]

The same reason why many people would be offended if I said their mother was a fat pig of a ######. If you offer offense, expect someone to take it. It is better to be tolerant and express your views on your own, instead of encouraging others to join in with you.

You can choose to take or not take offence. Ignoring the "offender" and their attempts to offend are the only sensible way to deal with things without escalation.

People can say whatever the hell they like about my mum, I don't care. All they're doing is demonstrating to others what kind of person they are.

[adrynalyne]

Seems a lot of you confuse the meaning of the word "Respect", and instead, use it in place of "tolerate" or "acknowledge".

I don't respect anyone because of their beliefs. I'll respect someone when they show they are good in nature and meaning. Respect isn't given for someone just thinking something. We will tolerate or acknowledge a belief or what a person will do, but respect is something far different.

Showing tolerance is being respectful of their beliefs. Intolerance, obviously, would be disrespectful.

[theyarecomingforyou]

How can Americans claim to uphold freedom and liberty when people who exercise those rights are dismissed from their jobs or come under extreme pressure? It's just mindless nationalistic propaganda.

free?dom

noun

1. the state of being free or at liberty rather than in confinement or under physical restraint

2. exemption from external control, interference, regulation, etc

3. the power to determine action without restraint

lib?er?ty

noun

1. freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control

2. freedom from external or foreign rule; independence

3. freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, etc

As you can see, by definition these teachers weren't able to act without restraint, nor were the exempt from external interference. I'm sure some will argue that the education boards have the freedom to terminate someone's employment if they see fit but we're not talking about teachers promoting racism, genocide or other illegal acts here - we're talking about lessons that explain the power of symbols. If teachers aren't allowed to teach subjects that are controversial then in the Bible-belt no school would be able to teach the theory of evolution or about reproduction, which is clearly a ridiculous concept. The schools should have stood by these teachers.

[adrynalyne]

How can Americans claim to uphold freedom and liberty when people who exercise those rights are dismissed from their jobs or come under extreme pressure? It's just mindless nationalistic propaganda.

free?dom

noun

1. the state of being free or at liberty rather than in confinement or under physical restraint

2. exemption from external control, interference, regulation, etc

3. the power to determine action without restraint

lib?er?ty

noun

1. freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control

2. freedom from external or foreign rule; independence

3. freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, etc

As you can see, by definition these teachers weren't able to act without restraint, nor were the exempt from external interference. I'm sure some will argue that the education boards have the freedom to terminate someone's employment if they see fit but we're not talking about teachers promoting racism, genocide or other illegal acts here - we're talking about lessons that explain the power of symbols. If teachers aren't allowed to teach subjects that are controversial then in the Bible-belt no school would be able to teach the theory of evolution or about reproduction, which is clearly a ridiculous concept. The schools should have stood by these teachers.

Here we go with the anti-American theme again.

They WERE free to do what they did. They are STILL free to do what they did. Just like their employers were FREE to fire them. They should have left their personal agendas for outside of work. When you are employed, you play by a certain set of rules, free or not. Feel FREE not to abide by them, and get fired. They have a choice, which is what freedom is all about.

[Rippleman]

To me, the lesson and point were proven excellently. Too bad most won't ever see it since they are blind.

[theyarecomingforyou]

They WERE free to do what they did. They are STILL free to do what they did. Just like their employers were FREE to fire them. They should have left their personal agendas for outside of work.

You clearly didn't read my post, otherwise you'd have seen that the action taken against these teachers infringed upon their supposed freedom and liberty. It's not freedom if you can't exercise it. In this case corporate / institutional freedom took precedence over personal freedom, which is antithetical to the freedom Americans claim to have.

I can understand people complaining and the school issuing a policy preventing such lessons being repeated but to terminate their employment?or force them out?is grossly excessive. This is yet another erosion of personal liberty in favour of organisations.

[trag3dy]

You clearly didn't read my post, otherwise you'd have seen that the action taken against these teachers infringed upon their supposed freedom and liberty. It's not freedom if you can't exercise it. In this case corporate / institutional freedom took precedence over personal freedom, which is antithetical to the freedom Americans claim to have.

I can understand people complaining and the school issuing a policy preventing such lessons being repeated but to terminate their employment?or force them out?is grossly excessive. This is yet another erosion of personal liberty in favour of organisations.

So what you're saying is anyone should be able to do anything they want at their job as long as they claim it's under the guise of freedom and liberty?

[adrynalyne]

You clearly didn't read my post, otherwise you'd have seen that the action taken against these teachers infringed upon their supposed freedom and liberty. It's not freedom if you can't exercise it. In this case corporate / institutional freedom took precedence over personal freedom, which is antithetical to the freedom Americans claim to have.

I can understand people complaining and the school issuing a policy preventing such lessons being repeated but to terminate their employment?or force them out?is grossly excessive. This is yet another erosion of personal liberty in favour of organisations.

You apparently didn't read my post where I made it clear that freedom goes both ways. They were free to make their statement. Their employers were free to fire them.

I am sorry, but freedom != anarchy.

So what you're saying is anyone should be able to do anything they want at their job as long as they claim it's under the guise of freedom and liberty?

In that case, I am going to exercise my freedom to not do a damn thing while at work. According to theyarecomingforyou, I should be allowed to do this with no repercussions.

[FloatingFatMan]

^ I love it when people throw their brains out, just to be obtuse. :p

[Anibal P]

low level of nationalism or wrong kind of nationalism in armies are dangerous though,

Fort Hood shootings for example?

how are hell American Armies allow someone who doesn't loves America entering military services?

Political Correctness was the only culprit, they didn't want to dismiss an openly Muslim and American hating Soldier for fear of the PC police showing up, and this is the price we pay, and sadly he'll spend the rest of his life in jail instead of facing the death penalty for all the same reasons, watch.

As for the "teachers" they got their punishment, there's already enough anti America hate is schools at all levels, a supposedly smart person should have known there would be limits, even in the most Liberal schools there are limits as to what you can get away with.

I am not American but shouldn't the ones who stomped the American flag be arrested?

It's not an arrestable offense as far as I know, at least not here in the US, it's been tried but never had enough votes to push for a Constitutional Ammendment vote to ther States

[McKay]

So what you're saying is anyone should be able to do anything they want at their job as long as they claim it's under the guise of freedom and liberty?

'Murica

[+Red King Subscriber²]

Mental.

[Yogurtmaster]

They paid the inevitable price for not bowing to the Christian Taliban / uber patriot crowd. I fully agree with the teachers, it was an interesting lesson that raised an interesting point about the way people obsessively worship things like flags.

If you think it's all about worshiping flags you have completely missed the point. The fact that the only respect you have to show anyone is respect for your own self is just downright sad and pathetic.

You talk about how people shouldn't hate other people and then compare Christians to the Taliban. Yeah, so exactly how are you any better than anyone else who hates?

[McKay]

If you think it's all about worshiping flags you have completely missed the point. The fact that the only respect you have to show anyone is respect for your own self is just downright sad and pathetic.

You talk about how people shouldn't hate other people and then compare Christians to the Taliban. Yeah, so exactly how are you any better than anyone else who hates?

If Christianity is about love, why did God murder so many people in the bible? Why were the crusades carried out and why am I condemned to an eternity of pain for not living my life by a code of ancient and mostly outdated rules?

[Noir Angel]

MANY men and women have lost their lives for that flag. I lost so much of my small bowel for that Flag that I'm barely hanging on to life myself. Do I love America? Yes emphatically.

The fact that people are deluded enough to lose their life for obsessive allegiance to real estate and inanimate objects is meant to sway me somehow? There are plenty of good reasons to give your life, obsessive allegiance to real estate is not one of them in my book.

not bowing to the Christian Taliban and uber patriots only needs to involving *not* saying the pledge of allegiance and having a morning prayer. This person took it two steps further.. not only did he stomp on images that have deep meaning for millions(the flag) to billions(jesus) of people but also tried to force his students to do the same. This teacher shouldn't have been allowed to resign. He should have been unceremoniously fired from his position and had his teaching license revoked permanently.

Ahh, so as long as a large enough amount of people believe a delusion it should somehow be above being questioned and mocked?

If you think it's all about worshiping flags you have completely missed the point. The fact that the only respect you have to show anyone is respect for your own self is just downright sad and pathetic.

You talk about how people shouldn't hate other people and then compare Christians to the Taliban. Yeah, so exactly how are you any better than anyone else who hates?

I've got no problem with paying respect to PEOPLE, what I refuse to respect is deluded beliefs that have no grounding reality, and what I also refuse to respect is mindless adherence to the value of real estate.

Also, the Taliban comparision is pretty accurate. The right wing Christian movement in America wants to turn the US into a religious theocracy and force others to obey Christian laws even if they are not Christians. Most of the homophobia in your country is religious in origin, as are the ridiculous repeat attempts by far right politicians to try to legislate on what women do with their vaginas. They also have a love for demanding respect without wanting to respect the beliefs of anyone else. Sound a bit like the followers of another religion we love to hate, huh?!?!. Besides, given the insanely bigoted things I've seen you say about Atheists I don't really think you're in a position to give anybody a lecture about respect and tolerance. In fact your attitude is evidence of the point I am trying to make.