Jump to content

811 posts in this topic

Posted

[quote name='seta-san' timestamp='1364795659' post='595609778']
touch is great for portable devices and kiosks. I had to write a 20 page paper on optics for my physics final. I could never imagine having to do all that work on a touch screen. Touch will never be nearly as accurate and precise as a real key stroke and I could never imagine doing all notes and MLA crap and sourcing on touch either. and software programming.. with all the special characters required. What a pain in the ass. "Touch" and all the other "natural" inputs that they keep trying to develop are basically toys and never measure up to real buttons.
[/quote]

Touch isn't going to kill the keyboard. The mouse and keyboard are two different devices, not sure why people keep grouping them together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='iron2000' timestamp='1364799944' post='595609798']One sign that Windows 8 isn't doing well in my country: I never seen a Windows ad on TV until Windows 8 :p[/quote]
Actually, I think the reasons for that are more because Microsoft realised that this was going to be a gamble compared to their previous recent operating systems. At the same time, I imagine they want to put some light on the Surface devices themselves, with one of the core "advantages" to getting one being that the user would have Windows 8.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Most people I know aren't even aware of Windows 8, let alone having it installed or any opinion whatsoever about it.
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='trag3dy' timestamp='1364782557' post='595609600']
Yeah. For mobile. Huge key difference there. There are 0 uses for touch on a desktop right now and trying to force it is just going to **** people off.
[/quote]

Not just for mobile. And, there are MANY uses for touch on a desktop. Believe me, I [i]work[/i] with them everyday, and am quite productive with them.

Also, no one is forcing touch. My mouse didn't stop working when I installed Windows 8.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Detection' timestamp='1364772317' post='595609324']
Clicked thread > looked for 'Yes' button on poll > No poll.... :angry:
[/quote]

Same here.

Hate is a strong word and Windows 8 may be great for a touch screen, but for anything else, it's just plane stupid!

I don't HATE it, but don't really like it either, at least definitely not enough to upgrade to it. Will stick with Windows 7 until it's dead!!
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

windows 8 is not the problem , Windows 8 UI is the problem its a total UGLY Mess the people in charge should all be fired and then Fired again .
5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Detection' timestamp='1364781530' post='595609548']
If they had branched off and gone for a pure Metro version of Windows, and released 8 as a 100% normal desktop OS.
[/quote]

And right about now everyone would be happy. Windows 8 would be selling like hotcakes, Surface RT would probably be performing much better and be more consumer oriented and most likely also selling better.

But they didn't and here's my speculinion (speculative opinion):

1) Based on the crApp Modern UI Search and the crApp core apps, and the state of WP8 and all the recruitment, Microsoft does not and did not have enough talented software engineers to pull of this grandiose vision in cohesive, polished, or timely manner. I'm not saying their software engineers aren't talented, they just clearly don't have enough of them. I'm sure Google is helping drain that talent pool, and most likely have a more attractive package right now.

2) Microsoft thought they could leverage their Desktop Dominance to encourage developers to make apps for WP8, Surface's, and Desktop by shoehorning Modern UI onto the desktop where it is clearly "not optimal." That has not worked because of some other things MS did which developers aren't all going to bother to learn the new skillsets. And, Modern UI apps aren't really needed nor play well on the Desktop. There are certain aspects of the Modern UI which dictate an app will be less efficient than a comparable Desktop (Win32 app). MDI, in-place context menus, drag and drop, cut/paste, etc. Even the desktop itself is a container in the file system that can be used for productivity.

I also think MS fails to realize how important facebook is to this market and should dig in their wallets for an official app for WP8 and maybe Surface RT and if you do that might as well put it on the desktop. If nothing else it would spur more Modern UI use. They fail to recognize how important Games are to a new OS adoption (why at a minimum, weren't all MS Studios XBLA games ported to Modern UI and Xbox Games for Windows?). And finally they fail to realize how important media management is, meaning Zune/iTunes to sync Desktop, Phone, and Tablet. You can't ignore that, that's what made the iPad/iPhone ecosystem as successful as it is. And hoping a subscription to Xbox Music and a non-working cloud syncing service would accomplish the same thing was just boneheaded.

/opinion

[quote name='TurboShrimp' timestamp='1364816325' post='595610022']
windows 8 is not the problem , Windows 8 UI is the problem its a total UGLY Mess the people in charge should all be fired and then Fired again .
[/quote]

Fired or maybe just transferred to something they can be more successful at. Whoever did Modern UI Search and Music App maybe should be fired though. I take that back for Search. Modern UI search is for tablets, that is a fact, and it works OK there, even with big juicy fingers. Problem is, it is abhorrent on a Desktop.

[quote name='Order_66' timestamp='1364790610' post='595609726']
Windows 8 is BY FAR the biggest failure os ever released in the entire history of microsoft, it didn't have to be that way but it is what it is unfortunately.
[/quote]

I have to go with WindowsME, and the Microsoft Bob UI Shell (though MS knew that was a niche).

[quote name='Detection' timestamp='1364781945' post='595609562']
Trying to do anything to connect Desktop and Metro is like using a remote desktop connection and realising you need a file that is on your local machine, or a VMWare machine that won't let you drag and drop between the host and guest
[/quote]

Good analogy.
4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1364814829' post='595609980']
And, there are MANY uses for touch on a desktop. Believe me, I [i]work[/i] with them everyday, and am quite productive with them.[/quote]
Considering there are hardly any productivity apps out for Metro I'll take that comment with a metric ton of salt.
7 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Dot, please explain to me the many uses touch has [b]on the desktop[/b]. I prefer to sit farther away than arms distance from my monitors. I cannot imaging how holding up my hand is MORE or even AS productive as a mouse is. Not to mention, after a few minutes my arm gets tired.

There is no way in hell I am ever going to use touch (in the way you are thinking) on the desktop. There is no way you can play really intense games with a touch screen. If you are playing an FPS, your arm alone will obstruct your view. Not to mention using keyboard for WASD and having your hand up for the camera controls....not going to happen. There is no way I will be putting my arms up in the air to do precise copy/paste operations or selecting some text (while programming perhaps). There is no way I will be putting my arms up in the air for my graphics work. Smudgy monitor + intense graphics work is not a good idea.

I am more productive with a mouse. Touch is not going to replace it. Hardcore gamers will never accept it. Most graphics designers will not accept it. They have WACOM tablets in a nice writing position, not vertically.

Touch will never be preferred for productivity. It just will not happen. Maybe it is cool to use touch with Angry Birds, but not for several hours of real productivity.
6 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Hate! what a strong word to use for something like an operating system. I`m typing this from windows 8 and there are many good things which have certainly improved some functions.
It`s just feels like Microsoft was maybe caught a bit off guard with the whole explosion of the tablet market and knowing they needed to get a product out there quickly just threw a touch interface onto windows kernel 6 as best they could with the time and resources available.They dumbed down the GDI so that performance would be smooth on tablets, didn`t really care to much about some features and pretty much settled for average but working modern UI and apps.
Probably one of the main reasons for 8 being looked on poorly is the fact 7 was so good :)

I don`t think Blue will address all the issues, it will hopefully ease some, maybe by 9 the flow won`t be so obstinate.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

This is not about whether the windows 8 is better or worse, this is about preference and I prefer the windows XP's way. I think changes works if they are improvements, and for me windows 8 was not a improvement. Just a change to do things.

Sorry for my bad english, it is not my native language
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='z0phi3l' timestamp='1364772291' post='595609322']
Within the "nerd" set, there a few vocal types that don't like change, it's best if we ignore them instead of making them feel like their antiquated views matter when they don't
[/quote]

Got to love these blinkered, single minded points of views, completely unable to accept alternative points of view.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1364814829' post='595609980']
Not just for mobile. And, there are MANY uses for touch on a desktop. Believe me, I [i]work[/i] with them everyday, and am quite productive with them.

Also, no one is forcing touch. My mouse didn't stop working when I installed Windows 8.
[/quote]

Name a few that can't be done more efficiently and more accurately with a mouse please. And a wacom tablet of any sort doesn't count, the primary input medium for those is not touch but a stylus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I really dont like it on my desktop, it just feels like its trying to limit me. On a tablet its fine but not worth the money because Im quite happy with my Android OS. In my opinion MS should have stuck to actual windows in Windows because it was the most powerful OS. If things keep going the way they are, then it doesn't seem that far fetched that Android will be able to come out as a desktop OS that has just as many features for the basic user as the new touch screen and in my opinion, dumbed down Win 8.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Windows 8, I will never use unless it is own a tablet.. but rather have Android or an iPad.. because it is 100% for a tablet... Microsoft should have made just a tablet OS and not some desktop/tablet hybrid..

yes, change is needed for Windows.. but i feel like it is a huge step back.. for those who like it more.. more power to them.. it just isn't for me..
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Windows 8 is pretty good if you use something like Start8, you never have to see the Start Screen unless you want to use Modern applications. I couldn't go back to 7 even if I wanted to, Windows 8 "feels" fresher and more responsive and with Start8 I've never looked back.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I don't think I've seen a single person referring to the findings of Ed Bott's article, just the same people dredging up the same meaningless objections as in any other Windows 8 thread.
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='jakem1' timestamp='1364829683' post='595610232']
I don't think I've seen a single person referring to the findings of Ed Bott's article, just the same people dredging up the same meaningless objections as in any other Windows 8 thread.
[/quote]

It is because of those "meaningless objections" that keep me from using it.. so yeah.. not so sure they are all that meaningless.. especially since a lot of others feel the same way..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

From a desktop perspective I didn't like it all, and not just because of the Start Screen (although I absolutely hated that mobile phone style interface). I thought the entire UI was painfully ugly; to me it looks like one of those stripped down third world country Starter Editions. Once simple tasks felt convoluted and it just didn't seem like a desktop OS. I found nothing worth upgrading for so if this is the future of Windows then Windows 7 will probably be my last Microsoft OS.
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='trag3dy' timestamp='1364826911' post='595610194']


Name a few that can't be done more efficiently and more accurately with a mouse please. And a wacom tablet of any sort doesn't count, the primary input medium for those is not touch but a stylus.
[/quote]

My finger is faster at "clicking", than dragging around a cursor. Oh, and yes, the Wacom Tablet does count, because it's easier *and more accurate* than a mouse.

Mice can only be so accurate depending on the surface they're on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1364839002' post='595610516']
My finger is faster at "clicking", than dragging around a cursor. Oh, and yes, the Wacom Tablet does count, because it's easier *and more accurate* than a mouse.

Mice can only be so accurate depending on the surface they're on.
[/quote]

I'm confused, I use my finger to click my mouse and I don't have to get my monitor all smudgy with finger prints. And with a stylus, sure a tablet can be more accurate but the point of your finger is not finer than a pixel perfect mouse or the aforementioned stylus.

Besides that, that's hardly anything new. Tablets have been around for a very long time. You didn't offer anything new to support your claim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1364839002' post='595610516']
My finger is faster at "clicking", than dragging around a cursor. Oh, and yes, the Wacom Tablet does count, because it's easier *and more accurate* than a mouse.

Mice can only be so accurate depending on the surface they're on.
[/quote]

How is moving your hand around a screen faster than moving your hand with a mouse?
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Touch gets the benefit of click 'on' targets, which is faster when dealing with large hit areas in certain cases (though still slower than a good mouser). The problem is low information density in the apps creates a need for a 'switching' mechanism that drastically retards touch clicks compared to the dense toolbars and menus a mouse is meant to navigate.

While its not impossible that touch apps can get complex, we simply have no examples to support it right now.

Ed's 'survey' is questionable at best as a litmus for customer response, though the trend is still visible. It isn't about the 5 star reviews, but the proportion of 1 star reviews. Win8 is polarizing, his data confirms it.
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1364839002' post='595610516']
My finger is faster at "clicking", than dragging around a cursor. Oh, and yes, the Wacom Tablet does count, because it's easier *and more accurate* than a mouse.

Mice can only be so accurate depending on the surface they're on.
[/quote]

:laugh: Wut?

None of that makes any sense at all.

How can your finger be quicker at touching a screen, than pressing a mouse button ?

Touch requires you to move your entire arm and extend a finger to touch the screen
Mouse requires you to move your wrist a few mm and your finger even less to click

Even a cheap mouse is infinitely more accurate than a finger, unless you are a stick insect with a robotic arm controlled by a NASA scientist
3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Dot is rocking a dirty ball mouse and wonders why he's so terrible at mousing. ;) I can only assume that is what fuels his inaccurate and ridiculous claims.
5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.