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Dot Matrix

Just how many people hate Windows 8?

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And, yes, many of those people are my classmates who are about to enter the job market as system admins, and IT support staff. Hell, many of our labs run the OS as a primary.

Speaks volumes on how well your school is preparing you.

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you don't have just *similar* apps between the two, by and large; they are the SAME apps - therefore, there is zero learning curve at all, given identical hardware support.  

This is perhaps the biggest issue with the whole concept behind Windows 8 right now. A good UI should always be targeted at the task, device and user in mind. This is why so many of the apps are utterly useless on a desktop, and in some cases less useful than even their Windows Phone counter-parts. There is too much focus on using the same UI elements, the same layouts and the same styles regardless of their suitability to the situation at hand. So we get desktop apps that waste space, hide things in mysterious menus and even then provide functionality that makes any website equivalent look like a software development masterpiece from the future.

 

There's a good reason web designers target phones, tablets and desktops individually, and don't serve them the exact same page - because they are different.

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Speaks volumes on how well your school is preparing you.

 

And that's doing what schools should be doing, and prepping students for a future in a specific job market? Keyword there being 'future'. I can tell you that I was hired at my current job because I listed several beta technologies on my resume. The rep in charge of hiring was impressed that I was looking at and analyzing future technologies regardless of how I felt about them. That's what the job entails. If your boss wants to look at including new technologies, your personal feelings (for or against) won't matter. If you won't oblige, then they'll find someone who will. 

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And that's doing what schools should be doing, and prepping students for a future in a specific job market? Keyword there being 'future'. I can tell you that I was hired at my current job because I listed several beta technologies on my resume. The rep in charge of hiring was impressed that I was looking at and analyzing future technologies regardless of how I felt about them. That's what the job entails. If your boss wants to look at including new technologies, your personal feelings (for or against) won't matter. If you won't oblige, then they'll find someone who will. 

 

Cool, good advice to anyone who wants to get a job at Microsoft.. :)

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Shame on the admins for allowing this thread that is clearly and deliberated created to incite flame wars and trolling to even exist for more than 2 seconds.

 

It's like Hamsterdam in The Wire; this stuff is gonna happen, so they just keep it tucked away in a neat little corner.

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Cool, good advice to anyone who wants to get a job at Microsoft.. :)

Not even, maybe the cable company - but that still would be too technical - I forsee a future in sales. ;)  Its easy to pull the wool on HR types.  You pull that **** in the field (or around the 'old whiners' who will be your bosses) and your ass is going to get handed to you.

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Not even, maybe the cable company - but that still would be too technical - I forsee a future in sales. ;)  Its easy to pull the wool on HR types.  You pull that **** in the field (or around the 'old whiners' who will be your bosses) and your ass is going to get handed to you.

 

Pull which ****?

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Shame on the admins for allowing this thread that is clearly and deliberated created to incite flame wars and trolling to even exist for more than 2 seconds.

It seems clear that someone has decided the rules do not apply to dot, as he seems immune to them.

Rule breaking has consequences; think before you post ? Community Rules

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War - When people with zero experience (like anyone that lists beta software on resumes) pretend their opinion matters and feel a need to evangelize their newfound knowledge to more senior engineers.

 

Reminds me of a couple interns I had a few years ago.  I asked them what they would like to learn, and what do they do? One spent the day trying to teach us about 'the future'. Everytime I think of Derp, I can only picture that ridiculous kid's face as we let him go and suggested he take his enthusiasm to a retail store.  (That he's currently a sub-par cable installer is just too convenient).

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This is perhaps the biggest issue with the whole concept behind Windows 8 right now. A good UI should always be targeted at the task, device and user in mind. This is why so many of the apps are utterly useless on a desktop, and in some cases less useful than even their Windows Phone counter-parts. There is too much focus on using the same UI elements, the same layouts and the same styles regardless of their suitability to the situation at hand. So we get desktop apps that waste space, hide things in mysterious menus and even then provide functionality that makes any website equivalent look like a software development masterpiece from the future.

 

There's a good reason web designers target phones, tablets and desktops individually, and don't serve them the exact same page - because they are different.

Then explain Google fusing the phone-specific 2.x and tablet-specific 3.x Android into 4.x - if anything, what you are saying says that Google got it wrong with Android (and that Apple got it wrong with iOS).

 

All Microsoft is doing is offering the user a choice - I never said that users had to take them up on it.  (While doubtless Microsoft WOULD like users to take them up on it, it's still up to users - not Microsoft.)

 

Google's premise - and promise - is that you can take your apps from one Android device to any other Android device.  The TOS for Google Play, in fact, spells that out quite plainly.  You're basically giving Google a pass on that - why? 

 

I've spelled out - quite honestly and plainly - that if Google were indeed serious about app commonality across all of Android (regardless of form-factor) they could actually BE an honest threat to Windows.  Either Google (and the Android developer base) is serious about that, or they are not.  If they are serious, keep that promise, and deliver.  (All they have to do is stick to - and enforce - the TOS for Google Play and disallow ANY device-type-specific targeting.)  Otherwise, get rid of it, and explain why.  Don't do what you have time and again accused Microsoft of doing - over-promising and under-delivering.

 

Where iOS (as opposed to Android) gets it right is that there is far less device-type-specific targeting of iOS apps - the only reason you can't run the same apps across all iOS devices is what each device is capable of - there is zero reason in terms of software why they can't. The price tag for that is higher cost for iOS devices than Android devices (or, in fact, than RT devices) - something I've stated.

 

RT (and ModernUI in Windows 8) splits the difference - app quality on par with iOS for less than iOS.  The minus (and this is something I said earlier in the thread) is lower app count than iOS - that is entirely due to Microsoft being late.

 

And are you going to sit here and say - and with a straight face - that there hasn't been an app that you wished you could take with you from Android to your desktop?  Heck, I can't say that, and I don't even own ANY Android devices - it's why I have BlueStacks and two different Android VMs of Jellybean - one tablet-type VM and one phone-type VM.  However, that I need three different Android device configurations is a sign of how badly Google has failed on the promise of cross-device app commonality.  That is a broken promise, no matter how you are trying to spin it, and that must be laid squarely at the feet of Google.

 

You like cheap Android devices.  Fine, and I don't have a beef with THAT aspect of Android - in fact, I pointed that out as an advantage.  Same with the app-count issue.  However, and this is speaking from experience running Android apps, albeit in VMs, app quality in Android is awful in general - the standouts all too often get lost amidst the outright crud.  What good is a large app count if most of the apps are crap? (That has been a complaint across ALL the app stores - Android, iOS, OS X, RT, Windows 8 ModernUI, and Windows Phone.  It's also one I have not disputed in the least.)  I'm not alone saying it, either - not even on Neowin - look at the Android and iOS forums here, not to mention the Windows Phone forum.

 

I don't have a problem with holding Microsoft up to a high standard - if I did, I wouldn't be involved in as many beta programs for Microsoft as I am.  Further, I have nothing against Google in general, or Android in particular.  However, I am also perfectly willing to hold Google to their promises - I won't give them a pass on that.  Google broke, and broke badly, the promise of cross-device app commonality, and they have two choices - fix it by enforcing their TOS, or break it PUBLICLY, and explain why - to everyone.

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This thread has run it's course, and then some.

 

Thread Closed

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